7800 recap/refresh

[MooseHead]

Hello all! I've recently started going through and doing a recap/refresh of my older consoles. I've just finished the 2600 and I'm now onto the 7800 and have just a couple questions that I haven't found any real info on yet.

So far I've recapped it, replaced the old buttons/switches, removed the power jack and added an internal power supply, replaced the voltage regulator, replaced the controller ports, and added a composite video mod (Gotta keep busy somehow ;P)

 

The Green Chicklet on the 2600 was replaced with https://console5.com/store/22uf-100volts-film-capacitors-5-atari-chicklet-replacement.html ...Would this be the same on the 7800 as well? I know there are multiples on it

The Silver Stryene Caps that were replaced on the 2800 with 820pF MLCC Ceramic Capacitors....Same for this I take it?

 

Also, any other upgrade/refresh ideas for it? 

Thanks

[+-^CrossBow^-]

What did you replace the voltage regulator with? And what power modification specifically did you do?

 

And yes the same ceramic caps that come in the 2600 refresh kit and the 5200 power mod kit from console5 can be used to replace the poly caps on the 7800. They are all the same type and rated value if I recall. The only caps you need to replace on the 7800 besides possibly the polys already stated are the 3 electrolytics that are very easy to see and access.

 

Also, where did you get replacement controller ports? Thought console5 was sold out of them when I placed an order last week?

 

But otherwise it looks like you did everything and then some to me.

 

[ApolloBoy]

The green chiclet caps on the 7800 are connected to the four paddle inputs on the TIA chip. I've never heard of an issue with those so I don't think replacing them is really necessary. Really the only caps on the 7800 worth replacing are the three electrolytics.

[MooseHead]

51 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

What did you replace the voltage regulator with? And what power modification specifically did you do?

 

And yes the same ceramic caps that come in the 2600 refresh kit and the 5200 power mod kit from console5 can be used to replace the poly caps on the 7800. They are all the same type and rated value if I recall. The only caps you need to replace on the 7800 besides possibly the polys already stated are the 3 electrolytics that are very easy to see and access.

 

Also, where did you get replacement controller ports? Thought console5 was sold out of them when I placed an order last week?

 

But otherwise it looks like you did everything and then some to me.

 

I replaced the regulator with this https://console5.com/store/7805-l78s05cv-high-output-2a-5v-voltage-regulator-3-pin-to-220-5v.html

 

Power mod I did was pretty easy. I just got a 2600 Power Supply as it works just fine https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-AC-Power-Supply-Adapter-Plug-Cord-for-the-Atari-2600-System-Console/300899583126?epid=1220483370&hash=item460f034496:g:BAkAAOSwHptY~-PH Opened it up (there's barely anything in them) put it inside the case, put the power out voltage to the atari, and for the power in I made a hole in the back, put one of these in https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0151DP046/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and wired it to it. That way it's just a normal non polarized plug that can be plugged into the back.

 

And as for the controller ports, I got some NOS from ebay a week or so ago

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

So here's a question: why did you replace all of that stuff on an apparently otherwise-working 7800? Just replacing stuff for the heck of it is a surefire way to eventually damage something through inadvertence or accident. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

So you have a 2600 psu installed internally into your 7800? Be advised that the 2600 PSU only provides a max of 500mA of current and a stock 7800 needs about 700mA of current to operate. Slightly more if you have additional mods installed inside the system.

 

So while it may work currently, it will burn out that PSU as you are drawing more from it than it is designed to provide, especially from those PSUs.

 

 

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

So here's a question: why did you replace all of that stuff on an apparently otherwise-working 7800? Just replacing stuff for the heck of it is a surefire way to eventually damage something through inadvertence or accident. 

Because  there is an internet myth (that absolutely drives me insane) stating every device needs recapped.  Check out some vintage radio forums.  Odd that my 6 amps (all of which output several hundred watts) ranging from 1969 through 1976 get used hours per day and have not been recapped.  Nor has any game console I own, ranging from 1972 through present.  Whatever floats your boat I guess - sorry for the rant.  No offense meant to original poster.

[MooseHead]

4 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

So you have a 2600 psu installed internally into your 7800? Be advised that the 2600 PSU only provides a max of 500mA of current and a stock 7800 needs about 700mA of current to operate. Slightly more if you have additional mods installed inside the system.

 

So while it may work currently, it will burn out that PSU as you are drawing more from it than it is designed to provide, especially from those PSUs.

 

 

Noted. It's what I had laying around. I'll replace with another. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074BRR5YN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Because  there is an internet myth (that absolutely drives me insane) stating every device needs recapped.  Check out some vintage radio forums.  Odd that my 6 amps (all of which output several hundred watts) ranging from 1969 through 1976 get used hours per day and have not been recapped.  Nor has any game console I own, ranging from 1972 through present.  Whatever floats your boat I guess - sorry for the rant.  No offense meant to original poster.

No offense taken Just bored and wanting something to do. It's an old Atari 7800 that I haven't even used. Got it from ebay a few weeks ago. One of the caps did leak (a small bit, nothing major), and the power connector was in bad shape, but it's looking TONS better so far.

[+Stephen Moss]

7 hours ago, Stephen said:

Because  there is an internet myth (that absolutely drives me insane) stating every device needs recapped.

Drives me mad too, particularly as it is often seems to be touted as a cure all for faulty equipment, which many people subsequently find to be untrue.

 

It is true that both Tantalum and particularly Electrolytic capacitors are susceptible to age relate failure due to changes in their internal chemistry which is generally due to lack of use, although adverse storage condition can also contribute. However, they can often be reformed (healed) after long periods inactivity if you have the necessary knowledge and equipment. 

Generally, any equipment that is used regularly (i.e. at least an hour a month) should be fine for 20 years plus, even that used for a hour a year or every couple of years will probably be fine for decades without the need to re-cap or having a capacitor failure.

 

My Hi-Fi is only used a few hours a year and is nearly 30 years old, it has never been re-capped but is still (touch wood) working flawlessly, the same is true of a lot of equipment at work that is used more often.

To try and keep your capacitors healthy, try to use all your equipment for at least an hour once a year, even if you do not have time to actually use it in earnest you could just leave it sitting in a corner powered up and switched on for a hour. Plus if you are getting it out for that and it has just been unused in storage for a while, it is probably a good idea to also take a quick look for signs of any damage such as corrosion to connectors or water damage that may need attention while it is out.   

 

Ultimately the decision of whether to re-cap or is down to the individual, but do it for a reason, not just for the sake of it. As a general rule of thumb I would say...

It gives you peace of mind, just do not expect miracles in regards to improved operation.

Anything that has been unused for a decade should be fine to use straight away but is something you might want to consider replacing the Electrolytic and Tantalum caps on.

Anything that has been unused for two decades it would be best to replace the Electrolytic and Tantalum caps on before use as they are likely to have started going bad. 

 

 

[christo930]

On 5/12/2020 at 6:01 PM, DrVenkman said:

So here's a question: why did you replace all of that stuff on an apparently otherwise-working 7800? Just replacing stuff for the heck of it is a surefire way to eventually damage something through inadvertence or accident. 

BINGO!  If ain't broke, don't fix it.  

[gilsaluki]

I second the Bingo, but understand bored.  I watch old radio restros on youtube.  He works on 70 YO sets and he doesn't replace caps unless warranted.  TETO

[+-^CrossBow^-]

19 minutes ago, gilsaluki said:

I second the Bingo, but understand bored.  I watch old radio restros on youtube.  He works on 70 YO sets and he doesn't replace caps unless warranted.  TETO

Tell that to Mr. Carlson. He don't let those waxys stay in his restores. Then again he also goes to show you why the caps are bad and must be replaced in his old radio projects.

 

[gilsaluki]

32 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Tell that to Mr. Carlson. He don't let those waxys stay in his restores. Then again he also goes to show you why the caps are bad and must be replaced in his old radio projects.

 

Yeah, Mr. Carlson.  I watch the Aussie from down un-da.  Waxy's need changing.

[christo930]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Tell that to Mr. Carlson. He don't let those waxys stay in his restores. Then again he also goes to show you why the caps are bad and must be replaced in his old radio projects.

 

Mr Carlson is a moron.  Watch Shango066 or radiotvphononut or bandersontv or quite a number of others. 

Spergs find out caps can go bad with age and turn their spergery onto everyone they come into contact with.

But Mr Carlson is a special kind of sperg. I cannot make it through any of his videos.

And, there are no wax capacitors in 80s video game consoles, nor is there 350 volts running through what few caps there are.  But even in old radios they are not usually all bad.

Edited May 26, 2020 by christo930

[+Stephen]

5 hours ago, christo930 said:

Mr Carlson is a moron.  Watch Shango066 or radiotvphononut or bandersontv or quite a number of others. 

Spergs find out caps can go bad with age and turn their spergery onto everyone they come into contact with.

But Mr Carlson is a special kind of sperg. I cannot make it through any of his videos.

And, there are no wax capacitors in 80s video game consoles, nor is there 350 volts running through what few caps there are.  But even in old radios they are not usually all bad.

Preach on - if we do it long enough, maybe we can stop this current craze!

[DJ Clae]

A "refresh" makes it sound so benign. Whenever I've tried to do a recap it was a very destructive process.

[0078265317]

But one was leaking he said so it was needed.

[+DrVenkman]

6 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:

But one was leaking he said so it was needed.

Not until his third post in the thread.

 

Anyway, my rule of thumb with Atari stuff is, “Atari didn’t use junk caps, so only replace if it’s leaking or shorted.” And even then, I just replace the one cap. 

[christo930]

On 5/12/2020 at 3:41 PM, MooseHead said:

Hello all! I've recently started going through and doing a recap/refresh of my older consoles. I've just finished the 2600 and I'm now onto the 7800 and have just a couple questions that I haven't found any real info on yet.

So far I've recapped it, replaced the old buttons/switches, removed the power jack and added an internal power supply, replaced the voltage regulator, replaced the controller ports, and added a composite video mod (Gotta keep busy somehow ;P)

 

The Green Chicklet on the 2600 was replaced with https://console5.com/store/22uf-100volts-film-capacitors-5-atari-chicklet-replacement.html ...Would this be the same on the 7800 as well? I know there are multiples on it

The Silver Stryene Caps that were replaced on the 2800 with 820pF MLCC Ceramic Capacitors....Same for this I take it?

 

Also, any other upgrade/refresh ideas for it? 

Thanks

Can you tell me where you got replacement switches?  The power switch is getting hard to press.  I remember I swapped it with the pause button like 20 years ago. I'd like to replace both of them.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

16 hours ago, christo930 said:

Can you tell me where you got replacement switches?  The power switch is getting hard to press.  I remember I swapped it with the pause button like 20 years ago. I'd like to replace both of them.

Again...Console5.com has OEM style replacements for cheap. I actually use a slightly more expensive Alps brand switch instead of the OEM that gives me a little more tactile feed back but console5 has the OEM ones that will work just fine here:

 

https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html

 

[christo930]

6 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Again...Console5.com has OEM style replacements for cheap. I actually use a slightly more expensive Alps brand switch instead of the OEM that gives me a little more tactile feed back but console5 has the OEM ones that will work just fine here:

 

https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html

 

Do you have a link to the better ones?

[juansolo]

There are reasons for the re-capping craze, some of them are valid. For example, there are certain machines that were fitted with particularly substandard caps back in the 80s-90s. The Amiga 600, 1200 & 4000, and the PC-Engine Duo (not the R or RX, they tend to be ok) are perfect examples. They are prone to leaking and damaging surrounding components after a period of time. This is a known problem and a re-cap of those machines is pretty much mandatory. The BBC micros have a set of RIFA caps in them that are prone to cracking and failing after long periods of not being used. Turning on a BBC with these caps before testing the PSU and finding them faulty afterwards will destroy the computer.

 

Power supplies are the main area of concern (where there’s heat). Atari ST PSUs are, on the whole, rubbish noisy horrible things. Of the maybe 5 STs that have passed through my hands, only one had a PSU that held together for more than an hour, and that one was noisy as hell resulting in some on-screen noise. Requiring a re-cap. I’ve seen an Amiga and ST PSU fail in such a way that it’s pumped way more voltage into the computers than it should, damaging things down the line or outright killing machines. Talking of killing machines, when a C64 PSU lets go, you can kiss goodbye to your C64.

 

Caps have a finite life, however depending on quality and environment, they still can last many, many years. Do you need to replace all of them? No, but there are places where it helps. In old CRTs as the caps start to fade so will your picture. Now recapping a 30+ year old BVM is not fun, but the before and after picture stability, geo and alignment was night and day. We didn’t replace them all, mainly it was power and picture. I’m fairly certain we didn’t touch the input as it wasn’t necessary.

 

Some times it’s obvious there’s a problem and re-capping is a good/easy/cheap place to start. This is usually most obvious with PSUs running alarmingly hot or with suspect voltages, CRTs with crappy geometry or odd power fluctuations or, as we had recently, a Saturn misbehaving. That turned out to be bad caps in the CD mechanism of all things.

 

Generally speaking, if the caps in there are through hole and good brands (Panasonic, Rubicon, etc) and not having to deal with a lot of heat, we expect them to last. When they’re 20 or 30 year old caps of Chinese origin, regardless we re-cap.

 

We also re-capped an old radio recently…

 

Just another perspective.

Edited June 2, 2020 by juansolo

[juansolo]

On 5/28/2020 at 2:08 AM, DJ Clae said:

A "refresh" makes it sound so benign. Whenever I've tried to do a recap it was a very destructive process.

I genuinely don't mean to sound harsh here, but you're doing it wrong if it's in any way destructive. In those circumstances, if you've got suspect electronics, send them to someone who can repair it for you.

[ApolloBoy]

27 minutes ago, juansolo said:

Atari ST PSUs are, on the whole, rubbish noisy horrible things. Of the maybe 5 STs that have passed through my hands, only one had a PSU that held together for more than an hour, and that one was noisy as hell resulting in some on-screen noise. Requiring a re-cap. I’ve seen an Amiga and ST PSU fail in such a way that it’s pumped way more voltage into the computers than it should, damaging things down the line or outright killing machines.

Earlier this year I snagged a cheap 1040STF and there was evidence that something blew up in the PSU (which was subsequently repaired by some previous owner). Somehow the old PSU also took out the floppy controller chip, which caused me all sorts of frustration as I was trying to get a Gotek to work with it. I chucked out the old PSU and rigged up a PicoPSU, works great now.

 

[juansolo]

That's sort of what happened with my A1200. The PSU was working fine then started ticking alarmingly (they really shouldn't tick). Found that the 12v line was bouncing between 12 and 16v. Took out both my floppy drives (thankfully the only things that use the 12v feed). Managed to repair the Cumana, but to this day I have issues with the internal I can't track down (intermittent faults are a swine to diagnose). That actually now runs on a PC PSU I repurposed. It's complete overkill, but it was surplus so nice and easy (and cheap).