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Coming Soon From BSR

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2 hours ago, Ignorama said:

It is very simple: BSRSteve said it himself: Bootleg, first official release. Yeah, there was a release, but he is not shy to remind us, that his is the only legit stuff. And then limits it to that pathetic numbers. I bought the first three releases, even if I had them all already, because I was interessted in buying the "real" stuff. This ended now, since the BSR prooved yes again, that they are not able to work with custumers. Its ridiculous to make such release numbers and the explanation is just awful. Artifical hype and stupid expensive reseller-prices are the result.

 

Worst publisher for this console, and thats a pretty tough achievement.

 

And with that I am out of this thread. So sick of this kind of business.

How did prove that we are not able to work with customers?

 

I guess I should just throw away the materials that Rev sent me and then I can consider whether to proceed on rereleasing any of those titles. I have spent money on getting new cartridge labels and boards, but I suppose I can lose some of that, if necessary.

 

We just broke even on Spiker less than a month ago, and are still underwater on Deep Pockets and King of the Mountain (less than 100 sold of each). We have fared better on Slap Shot. We only had to make boxes for that, but we also have sold more copies (in a longer period).

 

Rev sent me 25 boxes, manuals and overlays for these titles and I thought it was worth doing. If I am just pissing people off, maybe I should just throw them away. I have 50 blue shells, I suppose I could do them all on one title or just throw them away. Keith had them made when he was considering a release years ago. I think he was considering Deep Pockets before the bootleg came out and then just decided not to do anything. If I knew how to make more blue shells, we would have used them on the last releases.

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Release them and have fun. If I had listened to the haters I would of given up long ago. 
 

I’ll release whatever games and amounts I feel like and the trolls can complain all they want, it changes nothing. They can boycott and sales could dwindle down to next to nothing and I’ll still produce games until my goal is finished. 
 

Steve, please don’t listen to a few bad apples in the bunch. 

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I would not get so down on 1 person being really pissed.

I would release 1 title with the blue shells and initially limit it to 1 per person.

Then consider more titles with less limitations.

Maybe offer the title with the blue shells also without the special shell as some people dont care.....others might get both.

It can be hard to gauge a release too many or too few.

But for a limited run i think 50 has to be the least to begin to cover the minimum die hards.

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For me these will all probably be new releases.  I’m excited.  I haven’t bought all the BSR releases but I have bought Spiker, Slap Shot and SteamRoller off the site.   Hopefully I can participate in at least one of these games.   Fingers crossed for a cool blue cart. 

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2 minutes ago, stupus said:

I would release 1 title with the blue shells and initially limit it to 1 per person.

I like this idea.  Not sure how to make it fair, but it spreads them out to the highest number of people.  Maybe decide by a lottery?  Or prioritize previous customers/supporters?  Or who can write the best essay 😁

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I think it's great that materials in existence, overstock or whatever's are being used up. I love seeing things get completed that way, even if I end up missing out or am not interested. Very cool of Steve (or anyone) to offer and put together. The alternative of simply throwing things away in this case would be a shame.  :(
 

 

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8 hours ago, Ignorama said:

It is very simple: BSRSteve said it himself: Bootleg, first official release. Yeah, there was a release, but he is not shy to remind us, that his is the only legit stuff. And then limits it to that pathetic numbers. I bought the first three releases, even if I had them all already, because I was interessted in buying the "real" stuff. This ended now, since the BSR prooved yes again, that they are not able to work with custumers. Its ridiculous to make such release numbers and the explanation is just awful. Artifical hype and stupid expensive reseller-prices are the result.

 

Worst publisher for this console, and thats a pretty tough achievement.

 

And with that I am out of this thread. So sick of this kind of business.

so yet again you prove your problems in staying in a community. In all these years you have had rude and harsh words for Rev, for William Moeller, IIRC for GroovyBee, for Intymike, for me and now for the Blue Sky Rangers. And this is only what I remember.

 

You are sick of this stuff? Well, it's hard to live knowing that but you can be sure we will survive.

 

Not yet sick of this community? Really, haven't you realized yet that you are?

If you think you are not (and in that case everything tells you you are wrong) I have never used the botton "ignore member" because I believe that muting someone like that is worse than insulting him. I might do I have done it for the first time today.

 

Do you see the irony of karma, mr. Ignorama?

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5 hours ago, BSRSteve said:

How did prove that we are not able to work with customers?

 

I guess I should just throw away the materials that Rev sent me and then I can consider whether to proceed on rereleasing any of those titles. I have spent money on getting new cartridge labels and boards, but I suppose I can lose some of that, if necessary.

 

We just broke even on Spiker less than a month ago, and are still underwater on Deep Pockets and King of the Mountain (less than 100 sold of each). We have fared better on Slap Shot. We only had to make boxes for that, but we also have sold more copies (in a longer period).

 

Rev sent me 25 boxes, manuals and overlays for these titles and I thought it was worth doing. If I am just pissing people off, maybe I should just throw them away. I have 50 blue shells, I suppose I could do them all on one title or just throw them away. Keith had them made when he was considering a release years ago. I think he was considering Deep Pockets before the bootleg came out and then just decided not to do anything. If I knew how to make more blue shells, we would have used them on the last releases.

A lot of people don't have a clue what it costs to produce the materials for these games. I've been criticized because I charged for the boxes to a cancelled game (rather than give them away). I've been criticized because I didn't do an new printing of cartridge stickers for the boxed edition of a game that I previously released as 'cartridge only'. I've been criticized for not reprinting a cartridge sticker that started to come off because it was so old, when it could simply be fixed with a swipe of a glue stick. It is too easy for other people to expect you to take a loss on these, especially when they imagine that it costs 'pennies'.

 

I've had people tell me that they won't buy my games unless I box them up. I've had people tell me that they don't want to 'pay for the box'. The fact is that you can't please everybody.

 

 

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7 hours ago, BSRSteve said:

How did prove that we are not able to work with customers?

Just saying Overlay Packs. Took forever and many sets were incomplete.

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2 hours ago, Elektronite said:

A lot of people don't have a clue what it costs to produce the materials for these games. I've been criticized because I charged for the boxes to a cancelled game (rather than give them away)

 

If you are talking about Hover Bovver: You are criticized for threatening to destroy the boxes. I recall that very well, we had to buy two boxes instead of one, but you refused to sell them seperately. So in fact many people were willing to help you to cover the costs, but you just rejected it. And of course you were criticized for insulting your customers again and again. I thought we put that shit behind, but if you bring it back to light please dont change the situations.

 

@intellivotion

 

I am so very sad about this, thought we were best buddies forever :(

 

@BSRSteve

 

Quote

Rev sent me 25 boxes, manuals and overlays for these titles and I thought it was worth doing. If I am just pissing people off, maybe I should just throw them away. I have 50 blue shells, I suppose I could do them all on one title or just throw them away. Keith had them made when he was considering a release years ago. I think he was considering Deep Pockets before the bootleg came out and then just decided not to do anything. If I knew how to make more blue shells, we would have used them on the last releases.

 

And there again: The publisher who is rather threatening to throw stuf away. You have clearly many people who appreciate your work, sell it to them and make them happy. Just dont sell anything ever to me, instead of punishing a community, because you are not pleased with a single feedback. And it wouldnt be a problem at all, because I am not going to buy anything ever again from your store.

 

There were plenty ways to do it right. Yeah, you have these limited ressources, just make them "first comes, first served" and a "non limited" edition for the follow ups. Even of you just offer cart only it would be something I'll skip, but at least a chance for people who are wanting the games. No special shells needed, just use available ones. Or take pre orders, make a fair calculation to get your profit and sell more with more profit. Just dont be like a bee and rip the people off.

 

Yes, I am pissed off by these releases again and again. Our market is small, but its not as small as 24 and with releases like this you make it hard to impossible for collectors to stay in the game. In fact my goal was to collect all games once upon in time, but man did that goal get nosedived by special release here and there. And I highly doubt that I am the only one who nearly completely stopped collecting, because of the many, many wrong turns the business took over the last couple of years. So I also blame stuff like that (but of course not only by you) which made the already small marked even smaller over the years.

Edited by Ignorama

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6 hours ago, Ignorama said:

 

And there again: The publisher who is rather threatening to throw stuf away.

 

So, he sells the limited number of existing shells, and re-uses a limited number of boxes to create some copies of games for people to buy (or not buy) and you complain and call him a terrible publisher? Wow.

 

So, he's not supposed to do this? But, he's not allowed to throw the stuff away? Not allowed to recover any of the expenses that went into creating the shells?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that in your mind, it is OK to sell these games in Intellivision Productions shells, but only if he has enough for everyone?

 

Why don't you lay out the money to get a run done? I'm sure we could probably do it for no more than 15,000 Euros. You might even make your money back in a few years.

shells1.jpg

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6 hours ago, Ignorama said:

 

If you are talking about Hover Bovver: You are criticized for threatening to destroy the boxes. I recall that very well, we had to buy two boxes instead of one, but you refused to sell them seperately.

 

I offered to sell you one box for twice the price, but that message just went right over your head. You just got angry.

 

I was trying to recover the cost of the printing run. I had to guess the number of people interested in buying a box (plus overlays)  for a game that (at that time) was not coming out. I figured there was a total market of about 50. (There were fewer) If that was the case, I'd have to charge about $40 per box to raise $2000 US which coupled with the overlays did not even approach my costs. My thinking was that I could include TWO boxes (with overlays) for each of the collectors and they could either sell off the extra, or just have two....whatever. I was simply trying to recover a part of the significant amount of money that I had invested.

 

That wasn't good enough for you. You wanted to get one box and one set of overlays for half the price I was asking. If I did that, I would have recovered $1000 of the considerable amount I had spent to print. It is called 'supply and demand'.  If I recall correctly, I believe that you suggested that I just 'give away' the materials. That, after losing money on boxes, overlays and programming. Do you realize how entitled you came off as? Probably not...

 

To set the record straight, I never THREATENED to destroy the boxes. I actually did it. It was not a threat. I had no intention of keeping a massive amount of printing in storage sitting there doing nothing. They went into the recycling bin, and I tore them up for dramatic purposes, because to be honest, I was pissed off about the whole situation. And, besides, why would anyone pay $40 for a couple of boxes (or even one) of a game that had hundreds of boxes sitting in storage in Canada? Nobody. It is called 'supply and demand'.

 

That being said, for anybody who DID support me and bought Hover Bovver boxes and overlays, I will sell you a Hover Bovver game cartridge and manual, for $45 SHIPPED (each), worldwide to fill those boxes and go with the overlays. Contact me at [email protected] if you're interested.

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Capitalism is great.  Make what you want.  Sell what you want.  Charge what you want. Buy what you want.  Burn what you want as long as it is yours.

 

I really appreciate the time and effort that goes into all of the products made for the Intellivision collecting community.  They are great (almost all 😉).  If we want them we can buy them.  If we don't, we can choose not to buy them.  To my wife's dismay, I usually buy the stuff to support the community (and to build my collection).  It's fun for me.  I'd like to thank all of the producers of these great products for what they do.  As long as they are making good products I'll keep supporting them in the work they love to do.  Thank you much!  Looking forward to more!

 

Peace,

 

KylJoy

 

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1 minute ago, KylJoy said:

Capitalism is great.  Make what you want.  Sell what you want.  Charge what you want. Buy what you want.  Burn what you want as long as it is yours.

 

I really appreciate the time and effort that goes into all of the products made for the Intellivision collecting community.  They are great (almost all 😉).  If we want them we can buy them.  If we don't, we can choose not to buy them.  To my wife's dismay, I usually buy the stuff to support the community (and to build my collection).  It's fun for me.  I'd like to thank all of the producers of these great products for what they do.  As long as they are making good products I'll keep supporting them in the work they love to do.  Thank you much!  Looking forward to more!

 

Peace,

 

KylJoy

 

I understand how making new products, in low numbers, can cause some collectors to be disheartened get frustrated and 'quit' because they can't 'keep up'. They want to 'collect everything'. Fair enough. However, there are battling forces between costs to produce, numbers of willing customers, and 'collectability'. I've never tried to created collectibles. I have always wanted to sell top notch products at a fair price and allow everyone to purchase what I produce.

 

It is an unfortunate situation that there seem to me to be three main types of people in the hobby....the collector, the retro-game player, and the speculator. They all have different goals. I always get irked when I'm speaking to people in person when trying to sell my games and they ask 'How many did you make?' as a qualifying question to whether or not they are going to buy my game. Obviously, they want to 'buy low' and 'sell high'. They want to hear a very low number.

 

Gamers just want the cheapest price, period. They want to play the game. Speculators want cheap prices and low numbers of copies so they can cash in later. Collectors just want a complete collection and prices that they can afford to keep up with that collection.

 

Collectors drive the market. Without collectors, sales suffer. However, it is a double edged sword. Make too few games and collectors get pissed off. Make too many and you lose money. All of these numbers are constantly changing as people enter and leave the market. I have no idea what the 'correct' number is these days, but I believe that 100 is 'too few' and 150 is 'too many', depending on the title.

 

I can only control what I do, and I try to keep everyone happy. However, that is not possible. There are unreasonable people who attack me because I have been selling by email the last few months. They don't know how much money it costs to produce and how much labour it is to create a game. They don't understand printing costs. I get attacked for prices from people who don't understand that lowering prices on this type of product does NOT increase demand. I get attacked on prices for people who don't understand how printing 1 or 1000 of a box costs essentially the same thing. Attacking me just makes it less fun that it could be. I really don't want to argue with people who think that I'm over charging but at the same time would never lay out the kind of money that I do to create games. I really don't want to engage people in discussions about numbers of copies or price per copy because too many people don't understand the economics.  Too many people don't mind if I take a loss as long as they have a really cool game that appreciates in value but would never dream of investing or creating a game themselves. 

 

I just have learned to put out the best product I can, and hope that there are enough people who appreciate my efforts and financial risks that I am taking to buy my games. I bring these games to market as a job AND as an enthusiast. I have to believe that most people don't begrudge me making a bit of profit for all of my work, otherwise, I'd just pack it in.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Ignorama said:

...

And with that I am out of this thread.

 

10 hours ago, Ignorama said:

Just saying Overlay Packs. Took forever and many sets were incomplete.

 

9 hours ago, Ignorama said:

 

If you are talking about Hover Bovver: You are criticized for threatening to destroy the boxes. I recall that very well, we had to buy two boxes instead of one, but you refused to sell them seperately. So in fact many people were willing to help you to cover the costs, but you just rejected it. And of course you were criticized for insulting your customers again and again. I thought we put that shit behind, but if you bring it back to light please dont change the situations.

 

@intellivotion

 

I am so very sad about this, thought we were best buddies forever :(

 

@BSRSteve

 

 

And there again: The publisher who is rather threatening to throw stuf away. You have clearly many people who appreciate your work, sell it to them and make them happy. Just dont sell anything ever to me, instead of punishing a community, because you are not pleased with a single feedback. And it wouldnt be a problem at all, because I am not going to buy anything ever again from your store.

 

There were plenty ways to do it right. Yeah, you have these limited ressources, just make them "first comes, first served" and a "non limited" edition for the follow ups. Even of you just offer cart only it would be something I'll skip, but at least a chance for people who are wanting the games. No special shells needed, just use available ones. Or take pre orders, make a fair calculation to get your profit and sell more with more profit. Just dont be like a bee and rip the people off.

 

Yes, I am pissed off by these releases again and again. Our market is small, but its not as small as 24 and with releases like this you make it hard to impossible for collectors to stay in the game. In fact my goal was to collect all games once upon in time, but man did that goal get nosedived by special release here and there. And I highly doubt that I am the only one who nearly completely stopped collecting, because of the many, many wrong turns the business took over the last couple of years. So I also blame stuff like that (but of course not only by you) which made the already small marked even smaller over the years.

While we're all complaining, I have something to add.  All too often, discussions here turn South and someone inevitably states that they have "said their last piece" and that they are "leaving the thread"....only to return within mere hours to post pages of additional replies.  The entire point of a dramatic mic drop is that nothing else needs to be said.  You're supposed to walk off the stage and not return.  Scrambling back onto the stage and picking up the mic to continue your tirade defeats the purpose and makes you look silly.  And, it's not fair to microphones.  Leave or stay, but don't make empty promises you have no intention of keeping.

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After checking with my suppliers and possible suppliers, and cooling off a bit, here is my current plan.

 

All cartridges will be on LTO boards in LTO compatible shells.

 

I will release 25 copies each of Hard Hat, Blow Out and Space Cadet in the previous boxes (modified with some stickers), with previous manuals and overlays.  Hard Hat and Blow Out will be in the blue shells. I am considering a later release of these three games in a Party Line album in a  larger, release of 50-100 copies at least.

 

I expect to release 25 copies of Magic Carousel, Number Jumble and Brickout in the same way, with no followup release with new other materials.

 

For Land Battle and Takeover, I am more inclined to commit to making more copies available, but I don't know if I should then not use the existing box/overlay/manual materials and just make more to start with, or make 25 like the others and then make more.

 

Along with Party Line, I am considering a rerelease of Stadium Mud Buggies. I also have a bunch of white label Boxing cartridges with Intellivision Inc manuals, but no boxes, which I could release similar to Slap Shot, though that is a pretty cheap game and may not be worth it.

 

Again, the 25 cap is because that is what I have as far as manuals, boxes and overlays and I feel if I am going to reprint those I should update them.

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10 hours ago, Sinjinhawke said:

If Stadium Mud Buggies is anything like the Spiker and Slap Shot re-issue I am in for sure.

Yes please! 

 

Suspect a Stadium Mud Buggies re-release might just be the most popular of all the titles just listed.   :)

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As a member of the Intellivision Platinum Club (that's right, I can feel your hate BWHAHAHAHA) I can say that while I do not need a copy of Stadium Mud Buggies, a gatefold boxed edition would be high on my list of priorities to acquire.

 

It's actually a fun game to play so I wouldn't mind having a "new" copy to take out and enjoy on my system while keeping the 125 version safe and sound. 

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2 hours ago, the1hatman said:

As a member of the Intellivision Platinum Club (that's right, I can feel your hate BWHAHAHAHA) I can say that while I do not need a copy of Stadium Mud Buggies, a gatefold boxed edition would be high on my list of priorities to acquire.

 

It's actually a fun game to play so I wouldn't mind having a "new" copy to take out and enjoy on my system while keeping the 125 version safe and sound. 

This reminds me I really need to take pics and make my platinum status official. Things to do during quarantine one day...

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