#FujiNet Hardware Discussion

[mozzwald]

40 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

I printed this yesterday. While I understand the desire to have the Atari 800 lines, it actually makes it harder to get a decent print. You either need to hope your printer can do really good bridging or you need to print with supports and then removing the supports in. such a small space is challenging.

I printed this yesterday also  and it turned out quite well without supports. I have a Maker Select Plus (Wanhao Duplicator I3 Plus clone) which I think is an average 3D printer and is currently in dire need of a cleaning and adjustment  

40 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

Other than that, the fit on this model is incredible. The connectors fit perfectly very tight tolerances all around, but enough to ensure it goes together. @mozzwald you did a great job on this! Very impressive!

Thanks! Much time went into making everything fit right. I had some help from @Mr Robot.

 

And here's a shot of the whole family together. Note, these XL and XE cases are high quality, professionally printed in Nylon SLS and MJF and tumbled. The XL case was painted with Rust-Oleum Heirloom White and the XE case is not painted.

Edited May 27, 2020 by mozzwald
words

[toddtmw]

19 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

I printed this yesterday also  and it turned out quite well without supports. I have a Maker Select Plus (Wanhao Duplicator I3 Plus clone) which I think is an average 3D printer and is currently in dire need of a cleaning and adjustment  

Thanks! Much time went into making everything fit right. I had some help from @Mr Robot.

 

And here's a shot of the whole family together. Note, these XL and XE cases are high quality, professionally printed in Nylon SLS and MJF and tumbled. The XL case was painted with Rust-Oleum Heirloom White and the XE case is not painted.

What are the three holes on the back? They do not seem to line up to anything on the motherboard.

 

Also, I haven't been following the actual board design, but there are three buttons along the top. Should the case have some sort of indicator what those three buttons do? I know it won't be as clean if you try to add that, but most of us are getting up in years and might appreciate a little guidance... ?

[Fierodoug5]

That looks really good Mozzwald! Is that the filament that Mr.Robot posted in the thread the other day?

I have a test print running now, I dont have any cool retro computer color filament yet though.

[Fierodoug5]

5 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

What are the three holes on the back? They do not seem to line up to anything on the motherboard.

 

Also, I haven't been following the actual board design, but there are three buttons along the top. Should the case have some sort of indicator what those three buttons do? I know it won't be as clean if you try to add that, but most of us are getting up in years and might appreciate a little guidance... ?

The three holes are LED lights

Three buttons are Reset, Disk Rotate and the new third button(are we using that one yet?)

[toddtmw]

So, for reset, maybe a circle with an arrow pointing back to the beginning.

For rotate an arrow pointing from left to right.

And the third button could just have a question mark? ?

[jamm]

1 minute ago, Fierodoug5 said:

The three holes are LED lights

Three buttons are Reset, Disk Rotate and the new third button(are we using that one yet?)

The buttons will have some additional functionality depending on whether you hold them for a short amount of time or long. 

[mozzwald]

1 hour ago, Fierodoug5 said:

That looks really good Mozzwald! Is that the filament that Mr.Robot posted in the thread the other day?

I have a test print running now, I dont have any cool retro computer color filament yet though.

Yep, that's it.

 

1 hour ago, toddtmw said:

So, for reset, maybe a circle with an arrow pointing back to the beginning.

For rotate an arrow pointing from left to right.

And the third button could just have a question mark?

If I have time, maybe. Or someone else could add them ? The dual functionality might be tricky to have a specific icon for tho and I'm not sure if they're set in stone yet

[toddtmw]

1 hour ago, jamm said:

The buttons will have some additional functionality depending on whether you hold them for a short amount of time or long. 

Does someone have a list of what each button does for press and press/hold?

 

1 minute ago, mozzwald said:

If I have time, maybe. Or someone else could add them ? The dual functionality might be tricky to have a specific icon for tho and I'm not sure if they're set in stone yet

I'd be happy to do this. If you can send me links to the tinkered for the other two, I can import them and take a shot at it and share it back for your review.

[jamm]

As Mozz noted, the button functionality is likely to change or at least be added to by the time we consider FujiNet to be at 1.0 release state.  With the exception of the first button (separated from the other two) which is tied to the hardware reset and can only ever do that (as far as I know...), I would steer away from being too specific about what the other two buttons do.  You might use something generic to distinguish the buttons, like a circle/square/triangle, or A/B/C, or 1/2/3.  You could use the font used when marking early peripherals (see attached).  You could use blocky ATASCII heart/spade/diamond.   You could use a classic joystick/paddle/keypad.  Many possibilities!  

I also wonder how well marking that small will translate on a 3D-printed process.

[+DrVenkman]

14 minutes ago, jamm said:

I also wonder how well marking that small will translate on a 3D-printed process.

With resin printers, you can do EXTREMELY fine details (see the buttons on the 5200 controllers my friend and I were selling last winter). But it would time consuming and probably too expensive for most folks to do an entire case in resin.

 

 

[jamm]

3 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

With resin printers, you can do EXTREMELY fine details (see the buttons on the 5200 controllers my friend and I were selling last winter). But it would time consuming and probably too expensive for most folks to do an entire case in resin.

Yeah, I'm very tempted by the new, cheap generation of resin printers!  Reality is I'd use it once in a blue moon, though, so I keep talking myself out of it.

 

That 5200 joystick case doesn't look like it's resin printed, though? Never mind - I see you were just talking about the buttons.  They turned out great!

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by jamm

[jamm]

2 hours ago, mozzwald said:

And here's a shot of the whole family together. Note, these XL and XE cases are high quality, professionally printed in Nylon SLS and MJF and tumbled. The XL case was painted with Rust-Oleum Heirloom White and the XE case is not painted.

That XL style case is looking practically OEM!

 

[Mr Robot]

3 hours ago, toddtmw said:

While I understand the desire to have the Atari 800 lines, it actually makes it harder to get a decent print. You either need to hope your printer can do really good bridging or you need to print with supports and then removing the supports in. such a small space is challenging.

If you have a 3D printer that can't handle a ~2mm bridge you need to recheck your printer calibration, with proper cooling even a cheap printer can do 25-30mm without sagging. Any bridging issue at the bottom of these grooves should be invisible.

 

17 minutes ago, jamm said:

I also wonder how well marking that small will translate on a 3D-printed process.

Markings on 3d prints are particularly tricky, the minimum width line without swapping nozzles is likely to be 0.4mm but print orientation is going to be an important consideration, it you want embossed markings you can't have that toward the print bed as it will raise the entire print up and want supports. If you do it on the side there will be issues with the sharp cornering required unless you print really slowly even then over extruding at corners is likely. Doing it on the top of the print is the best choice but that is rarely the best orientation for printing the rest of the object.

 

This is why the default Ultimate Cart case has a separate logo panel and a cutout on the case to glue it into, that way the case prints in one orientation and the logo prints in another.  I would suggest something similar for the Fujinet; cut a groove into the case for the labels and print them separately. This would make updates for alternative uses for the buttons easier too, just a small change to the label panel.

 

Printed that way you can also change filament mid print and do the lettering a different colour.

 

[Fierodoug5]

Yes, that method works very well, I use it all the time.

 

[jamm]

There's really a tiny amount of space on the case available for any sort of button markings.  Even assuming you could get excellent print quality, the user would be hard-pressed (pun!!!) to make out what the markings signified.  I think I would just put on depression next to one button and two next to the other to distinguish the buttons in documentation.  That would be both easy to distinguish visually and also not tie you to a particular style or function.

 

 

(Just using red to highlight the markings, not suggesting they should be colored that way! ?)

Edited May 27, 2020 by jamm

[Mr Robot]

I love that translucent filament and the way the infill shows through. I'd be tempted to experiment with infill patterns more if I knew they'd be visible!

[Fierodoug5]

8 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

I love that translucent filament and the way the infill shows through. I'd be tempted to experiment with infill patterns more if I knew they'd be visible!

I would like to play with the infill patterns too, just been lazy!

Edited May 27, 2020 by Fierodoug5

[toddtmw]

43 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

If you have a 3D printer that can't handle a ~2mm bridge you need to recheck your printer calibration, with proper cooling even a cheap printer can do 25-30mm without sagging. Any bridging issue at the bottom of these grooves should be invisible.

Yeah, I was lazy and printed all four parts at once and the one connector needed supports for the flanges (or would need them for the inside of the connector) so it all printed with support on. I'm sure it would have been fine if I had printed the shell different without supports.

[mozzwald]

16 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

Yeah, I was lazy and printed all four parts at once and the one connector needed supports for the flanges (or would need them for the inside of the connector) so it all printed with support on. I'm sure it would have been fine if I had printed the shell different without supports.

I print all the cases with the outside facing down towards the bed. The connectors are both printed with the pcb side (side with the flanges) down. No supports on anything.

 

The area where the pins go in the plug needs a little cleanout as the first layer (which is halfway up) doesn't always bridge well and has some stringy/dangley bits.

 

If there's room on the front you could try doing recessed icons instead of raised

[djones60]

2 hours ago, mozzwald said:

Yep, that's it.

 

If I have time, maybe. Or someone else could add them ? The dual functionality might be tricky to have a specific icon for tho and I'm not sure if they're set in stone yet

I might give it a try later too.  One thing I've noticed about my printer which may or may not apply to others, recessed lettering does not work too well but raised lettering looks pretty nice.

[toddtmw]

1 hour ago, jamm said:

You could use blocky ATASCII heart/spade/diamond.

I love that idea!

 

Challenge is the stripes. You kind of have to fill part of them in to get the symbols to show. This could be tweaked some, but this is a quick attempt to show what it might look like.

 

Thoughts?

[toddtmw]

17 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

I print all the cases with the outside facing down towards the bed. The connectors are both printed with the pcb side (side with the flanges) down. No supports on anything.

 

The area where the pins go in the plug needs a little cleanout as the first layer (which is halfway up) doesn't always bridge well and has some stringy/dangley bits.

 

If there's room on the front you could try doing recessed icons instead of raised

Good to know. I'll print it that way next time. But really, I like the connectors in a different color, I was just printing to see what it would look like.

 

I might print the half I modified above to see how it turns out with the recessed logos.

 

-Todd

[mozzwald]

4 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

I love that idea!

 

Challenge is the stripes. You kind of have to fill part of them in to get the symbols to show. This could be tweaked some, but this is a quick attempt to show what it might look like.

 

Thoughts?

Looks close. If you have a .4mm nozzle, make sure there's at least that much distance b/w the symbols and other cut outs.

2 hours ago, toddtmw said:

I'd be happy to do this. If you can send me links to the tinkered for the other two, I can import them and take a shot at it and share it back for your review

The other cases were linked in the other FujiNet thread but never made it over here so here you go:

 

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/jenuZODm3Bo

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/fNl6FYn8evo

[jamm]

13 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

I love that idea!

 

Challenge is the stripes. You kind of have to fill part of them in to get the symbols to show. This could be tweaked some, but this is a quick attempt to show what it might look like.

 

Thoughts?

I like the idea, but it looks a little crowded to my eye.  The symbols would have to be smaller to alleviate that.

 

[toddtmw]

2 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

Looks close. If you have a .4mm nozzle, make sure there's at least that much distance b/w the symbols and other cut outs.

I used 1mm x 1mm "pixels" to draw the symbols and then a box 1 mm bigger around it. I ungrouped the model to find where the holes for the buttons are and then centered the symbols on that.

 

I started a print.