#FujiNet Hardware Discussion

[+mytek]

2 hours ago, mozzwald said:

I would put a pullup on IO15 for proper recognition of the hardware. Other than that, I don't see an issue with removing the sd socket

Thank you, I'll do that 👍

 

Trying to keep the project in the DIY realm as usual, and although there is some SMD stuff, it's of the relatively easy kind with decent lead spacing (the ESP32, the MOSfet switch, and the 3.3V regulator). And this time around I've incorporated an FTDI USB module, as well as the Auto-Programming circuit.

 

The module was very reasonably priced at $3 from Proto Supplies (P/N: MOD-62). Being based on the popular FTDI chip makes it fairly certain that no matter what flavor of OS you are using, there will be the required driver already present.

This will be going into 576NUC+ as a plug-in module on a new 4 in 1 daughter board (with this added I guess it'll kinda be a 5 in 1).

[Mr Robot]

I used a smaller version of the same sort of thing for the cart board

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

I used a smaller version of the same sort of thing for the cart board

Because of some creative nesting of components underneath the FTDI module that I've chosen, the larger footprint of this module is not really a problem in this new application. Bringing the overall size of this FujiNet 2 layer board to a relatively small 1.96 x 2.32 inches (49.7 x 58.9mm) footprint. Pricing is also pretty similar to the Micro FT232RL USB you selected for your 576NUC+ Cart Board when based upon the individual cost per piece.

 

EDIT: For some odd reason I'm not being allowed to embed this link above: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832578583816.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

 

Preliminary component placement for FN Module (Top View)

 

Preliminary component placement for FN Module (Bottom View)

 

Using individual resistors for all the pull-ups instead of a single SIP resistor pack, allowed for a more conducive connection scheme to the ESP32 module. This layout also incorporates the added pull-up resistor for IO15 as recommended by @mozzwald.

 

And here's what should hopefully be the final schematic: NUCplus4-FujiNet_V1_schema.pdf

 

Now I just need to route the traces and embellish the silkscreen with a bit more detail and acknowledgement.

 

--------------------

 

Overview of Complete 576NUC+ Expansion System Daughter Board w/FN Module

 

[tschak909]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

Because of some creative nesting of components underneath the FTDI module that I've chosen, the larger footprint of this module is not really a problem in this new application. Bringing the overall size of this FujiNet 2 layer board to a relatively small 1.96 x 2.32 inches (49.7 x 58.9mm) footprint. Pricing is also pretty similar to the Micro FT232RL USB you selected for your 576NUC+ Cart Board when based upon the individual cost per piece.

 

EDIT: For some odd reason I'm not being allowed to embed this link above: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832578583816.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

 

Preliminary component placement for FN Module (Top View)

 

Preliminary component placement for FN Module (Bottom View)

 

Using individual resistors for all the pull-ups instead of a single SIP resistor pack, allowed for a more conducive connection scheme to the ESP32 module. This layout also incorporates the added pull-up resistor for IO15 as recommended by @mozzwald.

 

And here's what should hopefully be the final schematic: NUCplus4-FujiNet_V1_schema.pdf

 

Now I just need to route the traces and embellish the silkscreen with a bit more detail and acknowledgement.

 

--------------------

 

Overview of Complete 576NUC+ Expansion System Daughter Board w/FN Module

 

Why are you proposing to do both an SDrive-ng and a FujiNet on the same device, considering they overlap completely in terms of what they provide?

 

-Thom

[+mytek]

42 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

Why are you proposing to do both an SDrive-ng and a FujiNet on the same device, considering they overlap completely in terms of what they provide?

 

-Thom

Although there is overlap as you said, in reality they really aren't precisely the same, especially in all manners of usage.

 

In my humble opinion, I find the SDrive better at doing certain things vs. the SD on FN. For instance when it comes to launching an executable, it's just faster, with less layers to go through in order to perform the operation. Compounding this, the WiFi single SSID/password aspect is a hindrance when changing locations as I often do, and having to re-enter new SSID/password info each and every time this happens also contributes to this slowness when all I want to do is access the files on my SD card, and not the net. Yes I know this can be changed (turned off) from within the PC side app, but that still takes time to switch it back and forth.

 

Searching without having to enter wildcards also makes the SDrive quicker at showing results. The FN doesn't like partial entries for a search, and requires wildcards to be used within the query.

 

And when running the TK version of the SDrive Control Program, it takes advantage of all of the navigation keys available from the PS/2 keyboard which is an integral and required aspect of the 576NUC+. So in other words I can Page Up and Page Down, or go to Home or End within directory listings by using those specific keys, and not have to remember non-intuitive keystrokes to do the same within FN.

 

I also encountered certain files that wouldn't run properly from the SD card on the FN, but would from the SDrive. As to which files those were, I unfortunately don't recall since its been too long ago that I saw that happen.

 

Anyway there are definitely significant differences as can be seen.

 

Oh and perhaps not everyone wants or needs a FujiNet, but might might still like to have just a stand-alone SDrive and/or be able to run a cart image, hence the reason it's going to be an add-on module for those that do indeed want FujiNet. If the FN module was also the only way to access SD cards, a person would be forced to have one.

 

Now granted it has been quite a while since I used FujiNet, so perhaps some of these issues have now been addressed with firmware changes.

[tschak909]

23 minutes ago, mytek said:

Although there is overlap as you said, in reality they really aren't precisely the same, especially in all manners of usage.

 

In my humble opinion, I find the SDrive better at doing certain things vs. the SD on FN. For instance when it comes to launching an executable, it's just faster, with less layers to go through in order to perform the operation. Compounding this, the WiFi single SSID/password aspect is a hindrance when changing locations as I often do, and having to re-enter new SSID/password info each and every time this happens also contributes to this slowness when all I want to do is access the files on my SD card, and not the net. Yes I know this can be changed (turned off) from within the PC side app, but that still takes time to switch it back and forth.

 

Searching without having to enter wildcards also makes the SDrive quicker at showing results. The FN doesn't like partial entries for a search, and requires wildcards to be used within the query.

 

And when running the TK version of the SDrive Control Program, it takes advantage of all of the navigation keys available from the PS/2 keyboard which is an integral and required aspect of the 576NUC+. So in other words I can Page Up and Page Down, or go to Home or End within directory listings by using those specific keys, and not have to remember non-intuitive keystrokes to do the same within FN.

 

I also encountered certain files that wouldn't run properly from the SD card on the FN, but would from the SDrive. As to which files those were, I unfortunately don't recall since its been too long ago that I saw that happen.

 

Anyway there are definitely significant differences as can be seen.

 

Oh and perhaps not everyone wants or needs a FujiNet, but might might still like to have just a stand-alone SDrive and/or be able to run a cart image, hence the reason it's going to be an add-on module for those that do indeed want FujiNet. If the FN module was also the only way to access SD cards, a person would be forced to have one.

 

Now granted it has been quite a while since I used FujiNet, so perhaps some of these issues have now been addressed with firmware changes.

These are all concerns that can be addressed. I don't think it's a good idea to literally have two of the same functional device on the board.

 

Why don't you update to the most recent firmware, and let's try to close the gap?

 

-Thom

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by tschak909

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, tschak909 said:

These are all concerns that can be addressed. I don't think it's a good idea to literally have two of the same functional device on the board.

Well I don't see a significant down side to my approach, and as I pointed out it does allow for a non-FN version of my daughter board for those that don't require FN. Basically it gives a user choice. And I've already got a very significant investment of both time and money into the NUCplus4 daughter board as it is, which now is ready for a final sample board run (hardware development always has $$$ attached).

 

It was only because I needed to do one more redesign to fix other issues that I even considered allowing for an internal FN to plug into it. Prior to that, it would have been external.

 

EDIT: BTW there would be only one SD device, so I don't see your concern about having two of the same even applying.

 

1 hour ago, tschak909 said:

Why don't you update to the most recent firmware, and let's try to close the gap?

When I have more time I'll definitely consider that. But for now I've pretty clearly spelled out my concerns, and you own a 576NUC+ so you have all the required tools to make these changes if desired. And no matter which direction I take on my personal project, I think considering those changes and perhaps implementing them in some form could prove beneficial to others. I did bring up some of this in the past, most specifically the idea of having the WiFi SSID/password work more like it does on an iPhone, Android, or other modern devices where several IDs+passwords can be retained and either auto connect when in range, or if that's not possible have an address book with easy selection.

 

And I believe I uploaded this image a couple of years ago into one of the FN discussions showing the Atari equivalent for the PS/2 navigation keys. You did implement the Control+Arrow keys (thank you), but unless there has been a recent FW change to add some of the other functionality, it's probably still the same.

If you have an SDrive-Max just add the sdrive.atr file available at this page to test out this functionality.

[AtariGeezer]

If you guys haven't seen my new addition, check this out: