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What's the deal with Jag prices on the used market?


Warmsignal

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Sadly, I think a lot of brick and mortar stores are following that exact same process.

 

Here in Arizona we have stores called Bookmans. They used to have great prices and I thoroughly enjoyed shopping there years ago. Now they do the same thing. I too have had the employees look up Ebay "Buy It Now" prices to decide an items value. This has occurred when determining what trade value to offer me as a customer or when pricing something before putting it in the display case. What's even funnier is, several times I've found games for sale in the store, I'm interested in, selling for less on Ebay (Buy It Now) than their same item in the store. When I've asked them if they'll price match, seeing  as that's where they get there values anyway,  they've said, "No."

 

I've literally purchased the item on Ebay instead right in front of them.

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8 minutes ago, Warmsignal said:

Oh, wow. I thought it was a one-off case for me. I recently sent an offer on a Jag game which I felt was priced a bit high, and I politely commented with references on how I came to my offer price (which was about 85% of his asking price). He counters back with his same asking price, commenting back if he can't get exactly what he is asking for it, then he'd rather keep it and go put it back into storage. He wanted to make sure I knew the copy was going to go to complete waste and be forgotten about if I didn't give him every penny of what he felt entitled to... instead of just saying "Sorry, but I can't go any lower than this." Guess he thought he was lording it over me, or something. Kind of annoying, but also kind of pathetic at the same time.

 

 

Some of these sellers feel that they have a certain degree of entitlement now.... thinking they have something that is gold and they are going to get it either way. The best way to counter that is not to give in. Don't buy at some extravagant price. Let them relist over and over. They will eventually come down to a normal level when they see their price point is just way too over the top.

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All these points are valid, but people are getting caught up in the insane ecology (and psychology) of the auction market. The GOAT Store has been a great source for many years -- some of their Jag commons are under twenty bucks! -- and people can get great games right here at the AA store or in the Buy&Sell forum for decent prices of they just hunt around for awhile. Yes, it's unfortunate that some of the better games are now priced into the stratosphere, but you can still build a decent library without going bankrupt if you let go of the untouchables and play modern releases that haven't attracted the notoriety and the hefty pricetags to match. I say save your pennies and get Jag exclusives like Rebooteroids and play the unaffordable titles on other systems (at least until the Jagdrive is released).

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4 minutes ago, davidcalgary29 said:

All these points are valid, but people are getting caught up in the insane ecology (and psychology) of the auction market. The GOAT Store has been a great source for many years -- some of their Jag commons are under twenty bucks! -- and people can get great games right here at the AA store or in the Buy&Sell forum for decent prices of they just hunt around for awhile. Yes, it's unfortunate that some of the better games are now priced into the stratosphere, but you can still build a decent library without going bankrupt if you let go of the untouchables and play modern games that haven't attracted the notoriety and the hefty pricetags to match.  

True for some, but I personally prefer older games from my era. Also, I happen to have an issue with my right hand, so unfortunately I'm unable to play a lot of modern games. 

 

I've never heard of The Goat Store, thanks for sharing. I just checked out the link you provided. Their prices look excellent for some of the more common games, but terrible for others. 

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8 hours ago, RREDDWARFF said:

True for some, but I personally prefer older games from my era. Also, I happen to have an issue with my right hand, so unfortunately I'm unable to play a lot of modern games. 

 

I've never heard of The Goat Store, thanks for sharing. I just checked out the link you provided. Their prices look excellent for some of the more common games, but terrible for others. 

 

What prices are "terrible"? If you are referring to the Telegames and Songbird titles (Total Carnage, Iron Soldier 2, Worms, etc) those are not hiked up prices. Those are the retail prices.

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27 minutes ago, eightbit said:

 

What prices are "terrible"? If you are referring to the Telegames and Songbird titles (Total Carnage, Iron Soldier 2, Worms, etc) those are not hiked up prices. Those are the retail prices.

Cannon Fodder used for $35 (with a worn box and instructions)- It's available NOS on Ebay for $35 shipped, and has been for several months. 

 

Worms new for $110, and it looks like it might be cart only? I don't know, the picture is just of the cart and it doesn't say otherwise. Songbird is $100 new/complete. 

 

Iron Soldier 2 $125 new. Again looks like cart only, but again I'm not sure. Songbird same price, but new/complete. 

 

Brutal Sports Football NOS $55. The same as multiple Buy It Now listings on Ebay, but Ebay listings include shipping.

 

Some of there games are well priced, like Skiing and Snowboarding, but when I add the $9.10 in Priority shipping cost to the order, we're back at Ebay Buy It Now prices again. 

Edited by RREDDWARFF
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Well, they are listed as "new" so I guess I would have to assume they are just using cart only pics. 

 

Either way, generally if I can grab a new sealed Jag title for under $50 I am content with that....if it is not an absolute dirt common game. I think I paid $40 shipped for a sealed copy of Cannon Fodder. I am content with that.

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I would like to lastly add (especially for new Jag collectors and casual players) that if you find a good condition loose cart for a good deal....just get the game! I know a lot of folks are infatuated with having their games complete in box, manual, overlays if available. But, that complete in box game in many cases will be three times the cost of just obtaining the cart and playing that game. You don't "need" the cardboard, manual or even the overlay to enjoy the game. I say if you can obtain a good condition working loose cart for 50-75% less than a boxed copy, do it. If you really want a box down the road you can get it. I have seen boxes, inserts, manuals and overlays come up twice as much as the games themselves.

 

I am not just talking this, I follow it. One game I do not have is Ultra Vortek. I can get it boxed new for $100 plus $12 shipping. So, $112. I found a loose cart just today for $35. That is a $77 savings. I have the game, the cart is in excellent condition and works. I just don't have a cardboard box and a manual. But I paid $77 less. I am more than OK with that!

 

Bottom line is that you don't need the packaging to enjoy the game. If you can get past the "I need it complete" mindset you will be able to enjoy a whole lot more....and that holds true for any game console collector.

Edited by eightbit
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All of my cart collections up until now have always been cart only, and to this day I don't like the way they stack or present. It looks like a pile of clutter sitting around and when you want to pick out a game, you have to go hunting it out. So for once, I've decided I want them in the condition I would have kept them in from brand new, which is true of anything/everything I've owned since new and that's complete with everything perfectly in tact. So I'm choosing not to forego that with this console. In the past, I've not been as hardcore but as my wish-list of retro things is dwindling down, I feel more inclined to be choosy.

 

Anything less to me now feels kinda wrong. As much as I don't want to admit it, there's a collecting appeal to retro games. I want something to show for it. For the same reason I won't buy a game that's just a download. The purchase is as much the item as the entertainment, not unlike a comic book. I think anyone who doesn't agree with that, would certainly jump at the opportunity to save money getting just a cart (if possible, calling back to my initial complaint). Nothing wrong with cart only, but personally I know that I'm paying for more than just the opportunity to play, and in a weird way, want to pay my respects by owning the full article. Much like any modern day video game I pick up. So at this juncture, half the time I can't even justify a used CIB over a slightly more expensive new one. Every Nintendo Switch game I own has been purchased brand new in the seal out of principle alone.

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1 hour ago, Warmsignal said:

All of my cart collections up until now have always been cart only, and to this day I don't like the way they stack or present. It looks like a pile of clutter sitting around and when you want to pick out a game, you have to go hunting it out.

 

That is because you are not being innovative ;)

 

 

IMG_20200516_021922.jpg

 

A lot of these games I do have the box and manual (and overlays) for. But the boxes sit elsewhere. I like to pick up and play a game when I want, and any unnecessary re-opening of those fragile cardboard boxes is something I like to avoid. So, the boxes (for the few I do have boxes for) stay mint and untouched. The carts sit in these nice holders that were originally designed for cassettes (remember those kids?) and work fantastically. The end labels are high quality glossy and were $19 on etsy. Looks great and I can find the game. Works for me!

 

A "cart only" collection can be very impressive if maintained properly!

 

The empty spot under AvP is reserved for Alice's Mom's Rescue (which is coming) and under Pitfall is the Power Drive Rally cart that is in my Jag now....which I am completely addicted to.

Edited by eightbit
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That's some pretty sweet end labels there. I did something similar with standard address labels, looks like hell, but works for me.

 

People forget, jaguar was two things, ataris last console, AND rather rare and obscure. Depending on where you get the numbers, there was only 1-2.5 million or so consoles made. Of course, games will be far rarer than consoles. Look at any console, and it's top game, even there it's rare for their to be more than roughly 10% as many games as consoles, and that's for the TOP selling games. Now your talking only one or two hundred thousand, for the TOP sellers, which aren't necessarily the best games. Jag CD is even worse, only 10-250k depending on where you get the numbers, think how rare some of those games are?

 

jaguar is an Atari console in a unique position of "being somewhat modern", meaning it's more desirable to say, the "nintendo" generation (who often won't give "that old shit" a second look), and many of even that post Atari crowd, are now adults with disposable income, who likely already have all their childhood wants and are branching out to other consoles. Considering how big games got in the 80's and 90's (and will be even more exaggerated as more of the playstation, and later crowd come of age) there is just far more people who want it, than say 2600.

 

like already said, there really isn't a good emulation, and no clone options out there, and it's actually quite surprising how much of the hardware made, was never boxed, or in some cases, even assembled.

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I started collecting for Jaguar in 2015, I picked it when I got back into retro video gaming in my 40s and because I already had the machine and a bundle of games in the attic from when I bought it years previous when they were selling the machines and the games off for £5 in Electronic's Boutique in the UK. I wanted to try and build a full collection of games for a single console and the Jaguar (at the time) looked like that was do-able on a budget due to its limited library of games, and the fact that there was so much new stock still out there at a cheap price.

 

It was a no-brainer to collect sealed game only as I already had the opened games that I wanted to play - there really are only so many games on the Jaguar worth playing, and I also knew a good emulator would arrive at some point too which would probably mean that brand new and sealed games would be far more desirable in the future to games collectors if I ever decided to sell everything, also piracy/copies was going to become an issue with every more expensive game so if you did have loose cartridge of a collectible game, without a sealed box it could easy be a copy. Etsy for a while were selling copied Jaguar games alongside the mass of copied N64/megadrive ones that have flooded the market in recent years.

 

I have built up a great collection of sealed Jaguar games over the years and would often sell some sealed games on ebay if I knew I could buy the same sealed game back cheaper elsewhere, however that's not really the case now a days as the ebay prices and shop prices with old surplus stock are now very similar. Back in 2015-2018 Wolfenstein sealed and Doom sealed could be bought for £25. Defender 2000 was £30 sealed, so excluding Alien Vs Predator most sealed games were from £10 to £30 - many of them like Dragon, Chequred Flag, Brutal Sports football are still dirt cheap for sealed copies, but the more popular titles have jumped in price to a level where if I was starting to collect today it would maybe deter me from picking the Jaguar as a machine to collect for.   

 

For me part of the fun of building up my Jaguar collection was the buying and selling to gradually get more and more games for as little cost as possible - maybe sell one game to buy two back if you spotted an auction listing on ebay rising in price for a game you had - pop your game on as a buy it now and see if it sold, and if it did buy the game back cheaper from even as far afield as America as long as you knew the customs fees would not be added.

 

My collection of sealed games is beyond stupid to be honest, every game I have two of, and some games like Doom and Wolfenstein I have 5 or 6 sealed copies of, I did get carried away with collecting sealed Jaguar games, but I really loved the whole buying and selling of them, and the whole process of trying to build up a great collection from a standing start of no sealed games in 2015. I do sometimes look at all the sealed games and think was it worth all the time and effort to build up this collection and the answer is always the same 'Yes'

 

I know some people see no point in collecting sealed games, but for me they are always going to be the ones that are going to be worth more money if you ever have to sell them. I personally see those old sealed games as a small investment: money in the bank at the moment makes 0% interest, but retro games appear to keep rising in value - I have seen many of the game I have bought double and treble in value in five years, and there is no bank where I would get a return like that.

 

Who knows where those old sealed game values will be in 20 years, they could have trebled or quadrupled in value or they could have plummeted - all I know is bank interest rates will still be near zero percent so I am delighted I have such a complete collection to hand over to my son if something ever happens to me. I am sure a bundle of a 100 or so sealed and mint condition retro Jaguar games will put more of a smile on his face than the money I have spent on them, had I left that money in the bank.

 

On a side note: The Jaguar, was in 2015, a machine that had been well and truly forgotten, but today I see it has a vibrant machine with more and more new games being released for it year after year. In 2015 I would have never imagined the amount of new games being released year on year, and every game that comes out I buy a copy of to add to my collection, and those game I know will never ever rise in value as they are going to be available for as long as their is a Jaguar community, but I still diligently buy every new game that comes out for the Jaguar  - those old sealed games were the hook that got me back into the Atari Jaguar, but the fact that so many people out there are keeping this machine alive with new games (and those ST Ports too) has been like a breath of fresh air as I figured my interest in the Atari Jaguar would dwindle once I had all those old sealed games, but it has not dwindled at all thanks to all the new games that come out - and to be playing all those new games has made me question the logic of collecting sealed games... Rebooterodis really is so brilliant! 

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Funny thing is, last night I tested my brother's untested Jag CD for the first time. He got it about 5 years ago for $50 "untested". Had no expectations for it. His base console stopped powering on so he couldn't test it. I took it with me and tried it on mine. At first? Red screen. Then, power supply issue screen. Then, Jag CD home screen but no spin. Then, home screen and disc spin but no game boot. Finally, it just decided to work.


The only thing I ever did was clean a little and keep re-inserting it. So now we have a working Jag CD (his anyway), would have never expected it.

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22 hours ago, Warmsignal said:

All of my cart collections up until now have always been cart only, and to this day I don't like the way they stack or present. It looks like a pile of clutter sitting around and when you want to pick out a game, you have to go hunting it out. So for once, I've decided I want them in the condition I would have kept them in from brand new, which is true of anything/everything I've owned since new and that's complete with everything perfectly in tact. So I'm choosing not to forego that with this console. In the past, I've not been as hardcore but as my wish-list of retro things is dwindling down, I feel more inclined to be choosy.

 

 

And it has to be the Jag?

There are other consoles you could do the same potentially not having to withstand the dreadfulness of the "complete" original Jag library.

There are some good games on it, no questions, but as to the "complete" collection it's just ...

 

You say "I want something to show for it" .... may I inquire as to who exactly you want to show something to?

Obviously it is your money, your time, your obsession so you do as you please, just curious as to what exactly a Jag NOS/NIB collection appeals to and the thought process that led you to decide owning the Jag "complete" library for show is a worthy goal and if it being the last Atari console has anything at all to do with it.

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14 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

And it has to be the Jag?

There are other consoles you could do the same potentially not having to withstand the dreadfulness of the "complete" original Jag library.

There are some good games on it, no questions, but as to the "complete" collection it's just ...

 

You say "I want something to show for it" .... may I inquire as to who exactly you want to show something to?

Obviously it is your money, your time, your obsession so you do as you please, just curious as to what exactly a Jag NOS/NIB collection appeals to and the thought process that led you to decide owning the Jag "complete" library for show is a worthy goal and if it being the last Atari console has anything at all to do with it.

You've completely misunderstood all of my points.

 

I never stated I was going to for a complete library, just that I require complete copies of the games meaning cart, manual, box, etc. No, I'm not keeping ANY of them NIB, I'm opening them all of them. When I buy games nowadays, I prefer them to be brand new if I can afford it and I keep my stuff in perfect condition from the time they are first opened, unlike so many games you find on the used market with wear and tear, missing parts, etc. I'm not showing them to anybody in particular, unless they wanted to see them. I want a physical item for my money. I don't pay money purely just to play a game, because my personal collection doesn't operate like an arcade, nor do I pay for games you can only download. To me, that's "nothing to show" for my money but a theoretical license to play something. That's why I collect physical games, because owning a copy is actually part of the experience.

 

So to review - no I'm not keeping them sealed, no I'm not trying to show them off, and no I'm not buying every single game. Also, I don't find the library to be dreadful and on a side note, I like "bad" games as much as "good" games. I'm not that fickle so long as it fits the right genres, there are certain games and even certain genres which are extremely popular and highly praised when I do find dreadful, but it's all a matter of opinion as to what's dreadful or not.

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Still I would not discount second hand loose carts if you are concerned about prices. There are good deals to be had in that area and all of the used cart only games I have purchased are actually in really good to brand new condition for a fraction of the price you would obtain them in "brand new" condition. Take for example Ultra Vortek. Brand new the game typically runs $100. You can buy it now brand new for that price from B&C Computervisions, plus $12 shipping. So, $112 plus tax on ebay for that one title. I found a loose cart in excellent condition for $35 shipped. I saved over $80 for a game that I can play, enjoy and add to my collection. If the saving factor was $10-$20 over a new or even boxed copy I would not have bothered with the loose cart, but a savings like that really is a big deal.

 

Like you I want to play the games. A good condition loose game cart is A-OK in my book considering I own it physically, I can enjoy it as I would a "new" cart, and most importantly I can save money for another game ;)

 

The title of this thread states "What's the deal with the jag prices on the used market". Well, that is the deal on the used market. Good used games can be had for good prices. But if you are looking for brand new...well that is the brand new market. And those are brand new (or so called new old stock) prices today ;)

Edited by eightbit
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The thing is, I think you got lucky to find it at that price, because my initial complaints were that people sell the used ones for prices close to new or sometimes the same as. Like for example Super Burnout? Why pay $85 or $100 for used one when the new one is $100? Yeah, $100 that's a lot of money for one game. But the way my mind thinks, $85 is a helluva lot for a used alternative that probably smells like smoke, has snag in the label, a creased up box, or manual with torn pages. There's literally a listing right now for a CIB used one $99.95 + $8 shipping so it's more than B&C who's shipping is only $5. This is what boggles the mind about the Jag market.

 

A used CIB copy of this kind of game should be no more than $50 if they really want to entice a buyer. The closer it gets to the NIB price the more pointless it seems.

Edited by Warmsignal
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Not to spend too long on my soap box, but another glowing example of used market excellence. I try to buy a manual with registration cards for one of my used games, the guy sends "a" manual (not the one in the picture clearly because it's worse for the wear) and no registration cards with it. After I've pointed out how this is incorrect, he's stopped responding to me. This is kinda why I don't do used anymore. I'm about to just go re-buy the game NIB. Using pictures other than exact item should be a strike against seller accounts. I don't care how inconvenient it is, everyone deserves to know exactly what they're getting and nothing less.

Edited by Warmsignal
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On 5/15/2020 at 2:56 AM, Warmsignal said:

The retro collecting bubble I believe, is about to reach it's peak. I think that mostly everyone who's wanted to get into collecting the old stuff had done so by now, and I really don't think that the younger kids (gen z'ers) are going to be as interested in physical retro collections. I've also heard a lot of talk from gen x'ers and millennials considering to dump their physical collections in favor of flash carts. So I think we're about to reach a point where some of the supply is going to start coming back in, while demand decreases.


Popular consoles have seen a plateau effect, while the more obscure ones are rising as collectors tap out of collecting for the obvious platforms. For example, everyone already has everything they can reasonable afford on SNES, so now they want another console to focus on, so they turn to something like the Game Boy, or the Jaguar which we now see are both on the rise. Eventually, we'll all run out of different console alternatives to collect, and a good number of us will probably throw in the towel and dump our collections onto the market around the same time. Some are already doing this, others while others are just turning to different consoles.

 

Yep. I think what is going to burst the bubble is covid.

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I would buy new games, price difference is minimal, and if prices do fall, or interest in a console dwindles, people will want to buy the game with the nicest box not some tatty looking one - for the price difference go new, in the long term what you buy will hold its value more. Flash carts mean anyone who just wants to play a certain game (Tempest 2000 was one such game on Jaguar) would in the past have had to buy that loose cart - now they won't have to - hence loose carts will lose value faster. However someone who wants the whole package of box/manual and cart will still want those, and will want them in as best a condition as they can find.

 

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8 hours ago, JaggingUK said:

I would buy new games, price difference is minimal, and if prices do fall, or interest in a console dwindles, people will want to buy the game with the nicest box not some tatty looking one - for the price difference go new, in the long term what you buy will hold its value more. Flash carts mean anyone who just wants to play a certain game (Tempest 2000 was one such game on Jaguar) would in the past have had to buy that loose cart - now they won't have to - hence loose carts will lose value faster. However someone who wants the whole package of box/manual and cart will still want those, and will want them in as best a condition as they can find.

 

 

New games can go for a hundred to hundreds depending on the title. Used games can still fetch quite a bit and reach those prices. And, cart only games can still fetch a pretty coin. I don't think the Gamedrive is going to change that. There have been everdrives out for the Genesis for years and anyone can play MUSHA for example perfectly on any one of those. But, people still spend hundreds on the actual cart...even loose. Recently a loose copy of that game sold on ebay for $232. 

 

Bottom line is you buy what you can afford if you are into collecting for the machine. If you can afford all brand new games, more power to you. I know I can't so I take what I can get at reasonable prices. I have purchased sealed new, used complete and loose carts and have a mixture of all of those in my collection. Of course it is great to have the box, manual, overlays...but at the end of the day game itself however is the most important part at least to me. If the price difference is so vast (like previously mentioned $80 less) I will certainly go that route. I can always find a box or a manual....or even re-purchase the game complete or new down the road when I have the funds to do so (or the interest) but for now I can enjoy a pretty large collection and have been playing a lot of games that I never experienced before. And it is a lot of fun to boot :)

 

Your loose games will not lose value when a flash cart is released. And, if they do, I will take your loose carts at a discount please ;)

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Maybe this is just the general market itself, but if anything I've seen flash carts increase value of carts. A flash cart is an easy, cheap way to get into a "new" classic system and then people decide to collect for it, or grab a handful of their favorite games in physical format. 

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1 hour ago, madman said:

Maybe this is just the general market itself, but if anything I've seen flash carts increase value of carts. A flash cart is an easy, cheap way to get into a "new" classic system and then people decide to collect for it, or grab a handful of their favorite games in physical format. 

Yep, sadly I believe this is what's happening with a lot of platforms. At one point I would have expected the opposite effect to happen (myself personally, I've gotten rid of most of my original carts because of flash carts), but it doesn't seem like it's playing out that way for a lot of people.

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13 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Yep. I think what is going to burst the bubble is covid.

If anything, I think the pandemic is fueling it.  I (re-) discovered Jaguar just before the shelter in place stuff started, and I've literally watched prices for some things I bought on eBay a month or two ago list for triple the price now.  Hopefully things calm down a bit when people are allowed to return to their normal lives a bit and aren't (like me) trolling through eBay and forums all day on their phones while re-learning parenting in a world with no schools, daycare, parks, playdates, or libraries.

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