Lord Thag Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 This whole quarantine thing finally got me enough time to dig out and unpack the rest of my Atari stuff, and I've gotten my U1mb/Side2 combo updated with the latest Spartados as well, and have been diving back into fiddling with this setup beyond using it for loading games. It's surprisingly powerful for an 8bit PC, especially with The Last Word. One of the things I would like to do is use the old Ataris for some light home business stuff, collection tracking etc. I like the idea of my personal data being offline and not internet-accessible anyway, and using an Atari as a sort of 'distraction free' word processing and data device. With APE I can easily mirror the files to a PC for storage on a USB stick or whatever so a crash or lockup doesn't lose my data. Mainly for fun of course, but one thing I need to make this work is a decent spreadsheet. I can get Syncalc to run just fine, but anytime you try and Save/Load it locks up on Spartados X (even using the 'X' command). Visicalc doesn't run either, at least the copy I have. Is there a specific Spartados setup that works with either Syncalc or Visicalc? I'm curious if any of you have had better luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twh/f2 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) Very good topic. I was also very frustrated to find out that neither Visicalc nor Syncalc worked on a typical SDX+HDD setup. I wonder if one of our machine code & system heroes could have a look on Visicalc binary. It used to be a very high rated productivity software. A pitty that it does not run on SDX. Today a few 30 years later we have Software-80 column E: drivers and/or native VBXE 80 columns support, >128KB RAM and harddisks with subdirectories. In 2020 it would be quite something to have a nice spreadsheet productivity software with support of those "advanced" possibilities. Maybe another approach is to have a look on other platforms too. Maybe there is text-based spreadsheet software for CPM, BBC Micro, C64, Apple2 that would be worth to port? On first look it is maybe much easier to port productivity software than those "crazy" game conversions like C64 Stunt Car Racer or BBC Prince of Persia. grüße \twh Edited May 18, 2020 by twh/f2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Do either of them run as mounted ATRs from the Loader? If so, you can at least set us a set of program and data disk images to load together and run on boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I just tried to boot VisiCalc from the Loader. Didn't work. XL/XE mode. Will do more research. Screen: _______________ : : : : : : : : : : : ! : ---------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) I've been doing this for a couple of years now, that is using SynCalc fro spreadsheets and 'My Personal Net Worth' for finances. But I just load them up via my floppy drives with the original ATR's and save to floppy disks. I do this for exactly the reasons @Lord Thag suggested; because it's offline and can't be hacked. It would be great if someone could get them to work with SDX and the 64 or 80 column drivers. I do use TLW with SDX, but it would be great to have Syncalc work with 64/80 column SDX drivers. I haven't tried to see if MPNW would load in SDX; I'll have to look into that... Edited May 19, 2020 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I'm not worried about hackers. I would just like a good Spreadsheet / Database that runs under SDX and supports FujiNet. It would be nice to have an automated backup somewhere in the 'cloud'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8guy Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 If someone wants to tackle this please do Syncalc. It’s better than VisiCalc or at least it has @if statements. Also it’s suggested to make full use of expanded memory where available. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, DrVenkman said: Do either of them run as mounted ATRs from the Loader? If so, you can at least set us a set of program and data disk images to load together and run on boot. You can run atrs from the loader, but they still wont work with a sparta file system, seemingly. Sure, I can just boot some .atrs when i want to use a spreadsheet, but it just seems odd, with all the other great things we have with SDX, that we don't have a spreadsheet that works. It would be great to see something ported or created for Sparta X, it's certainly needed to make the A8 a fully usable 'distraction free' modern solution. Syncalc seems the best candidate to port. Not only is it a great program, it runs fine under sparta until you do anything with file IO, which according to Jon/flashcatjazz, it leaves a DLI running during file IO which Sparta overwrites when using BANKED RAM (see this thread). Next best would be visicalc. Some people have claimed to get it to run as an .xex version, but it locks up my Atari no matter what config I do. The sources for Visicalc DO exist though, for the apple II: https://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=24477 If someone could hack the Syncalc file version to relocate that DLI elsewhere where it won't conflict, it would probably work. But I imagine that's less than trivial. I've also tried all of the second tier spreadsheets I could find, like speedcalc, swiftcalc etc. All but speedcalc don't run. Speedcalc does run fine, and it even reads the directory correctly. But any save/load operation results in an error 130 (non-existant device). Looks like we're SOL unless a talented hacker can fix one of these. Jon mentioned Visicalc ran under sparta in the thread linked above, is there another version (I have 1.74) that runs? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 23 hours ago, Lord Thag said: This whole quarantine thing finally got me enough time to dig out and unpack the rest of my Atari stuff, and I've gotten my U1mb/Side2 combo updated with the latest Spartados as well, and have been diving back into fiddling with this setup beyond using it for loading games. It's surprisingly powerful for an 8bit PC, especially with The Last Word. One of the things I would like to do is use the old Ataris for some light home business stuff, collection tracking etc. I like the idea of my personal data being offline and not internet-accessible anyway, and using an Atari as a sort of 'distraction free' word processing and data device. With APE I can easily mirror the files to a PC for storage on a USB stick or whatever so a crash or lockup doesn't lose my data. Mainly for fun of course, but one thing I need to make this work is a decent spreadsheet. I can get Syncalc to run just fine, but anytime you try and Save/Load it locks up on Spartados X (even using the 'X' command). Visicalc doesn't run either, at least the copy I have. Is there a specific Spartados setup that works with either Syncalc or Visicalc? I'm curious if any of you have had better luck. SpeedCalc.xex loads (use "X SPEEDCAL.XEX"). I can store and load files but I need to use the Dn:filename notation (where n is the drive number). This is the SpeedCalc published in Compute! Magazine. Atari version printed in March 1986 issue. I found SpeedCalc at www.atarionline.pl. I found more versions (including an enhanced version) at atariwiki.com. I also found a short article entitled, IF-THEN-ELSE for SpeedCalc at atarimagzines.com I don't know if SpeedCalc would suit anyone's needs but it seems to run. I don't have enough knowledge of SpartaDos X or spreadsheets to give this combination a good shakedown test. -SteveS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, a8isa1 said: I found more versions (including an enhanced version) at atariwiki.com. -SteveS Correction: That's atariwiki.org! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) SynCalc loads as part of its boot process a patched DOS 2.0S and initializes it AFTER it has loaded. In case someone wants to dig deeper and find out if it might be possible to patch some other DOS to work with SynCalc: These are RAM-dumps of the first 8kb of a DOS 2.0S dos20s and SynCalc's DOS dossyn loaded as part of SynCalc (1983)(Synapse Software)(US)[!][cr CSS].atr. Ussing rossum's "ATR Image Explorer" I did a quick disassemble of FMS's memory range (DOS2: $0714-$12FD dos20s.txt, DOSSYN: $070F-$12FD dossyn.txt) for diffing/comparison. You can see that SynCalc's DOS really is a patched DOS 2.0S. They even patch out several JSRs with "NOP, LDY #$0A". Final note: If you manage to combine SynCalc with some other DOS, the importing tool for DIF files still will be loaded at runtime through SynCalc's internal loading mechanism and therefore will fail - just like with all the other cracks floating around. Edited May 19, 2020 by DjayBee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 3 hours ago, a8isa1 said: I found SpeedCalc at www.atarionline.pl. I see Charles Brannon was involved; he wrote SpeedScript, which was a really nice type-in assembly language text editor (TextPro was directly based on it). Transcribing the source code from that book was the best possible primer in creating a large assembly language application. It's a shame SpeedCalc source code isn't also available. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: It's a shame SpeedCalc source code isn't also available. Well, it's not readable to mere humans, but there's the original Compute! article and listing for their "MLX" program: http://archive.org/stream/1986-03-compute-magazine/Compute_Issue_070_1986_Mar#page/n65/mode/2up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Has BBK Calc , ermmm BCalc already been tested with SDX ?!? BBK's Bcalc Download ATR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamm Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said: I see Charles Brannon was involved; he wrote SpeedScript, which was a really nice type-in assembly language text editor (TextPro was directly based on it). Transcribing the source code from that book was the best possible primer in creating a large assembly language application. It's a shame SpeedCalc source code isn't also available. Anyone on LinkedIn want to ping him and see if he still has the source code? ? https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-brannon-b2755b/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, DrVenkman said: Well, it's not readable to mere humans, but there's the original Compute! article and listing for their "MLX" program: http://archive.org/stream/1986-03-compute-magazine/Compute_Issue_070_1986_Mar#page/n65/mode/2up Wonder how much time it would take to OCR that? I sure as hell won't be typing that in. Of course the text version of the scan is worthless, it would be faster to type it in manually than to try and correct the errors in the listing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 It's possible that the source code is on one of the Compute disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 18 hours ago, Lord Thag said: https://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=24477 That link is invalid. So is there a version of the 1985 SynCalc that works, period. And if yes, is there either a cracked version and/or a file version as opposed to a boot disk ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, Alfred said: That link is invalid. So is there a version of the 1985 SynCalc that works, period. And if yes, is there either a cracked version and/or a file version as opposed to a boot disk ? Yes, see this thread. You have to use the .xex version. It'll run just fine, but any disk io crashes the system. 5 hours ago, a8isa1 said: I don't know if SpeedCalc would suit anyone's needs but it seems to run. I don't have enough knowledge of SpartaDos X or spreadsheets to give this combination a good shakedown test. I mentioned this in my second post. Like Syncalc, it does indeed run fine, but also like Syncalc, saving/loading does not work. In this case, it throws up an error 130 (non-existent device). Otherwise it does work. This and Syncalc seem to be the only versions that partially run under Sparta 4.x. 1 hour ago, CharlieChaplin said: Has BBK Calc , ermmm BCalc already been tested with SDX ?!? BBK's Bcalc Download ATR Yep. SDX doesn't recognize the disk format to even read it. Anyone have an .xex of this one to test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Stephen said: Wonder how much time it would take to OCR that? I sure as hell won't be typing that in. Of course the text version of the scan is worthless, it would be faster to type it in manually than to try and correct the errors in the listing. Unfortunately, that listing only generates the binary file. I looked at Speedcalc in a hex editor and it matches the Compute listing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, Lord Thag said: Yes, see this thread. You have to use the .xex version. It'll run just fine, but any disk io crashes the system. Hmm, the version posted there doesn't seem to work in Atirra, just a flickering black border color. It just works for you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Alfred said: Hmm, the version posted there doesn't seem to work in Atirra, just a flickering black border color. It just works for you ? I believe that’s the one I downloaded (I downloaded like 10 different versions when I set my hard drive up a couple of years ago, so memory is a bit fuzzy). All of the .xex versions work under Spartados, (I’ve tried several). They all lock the system due to Disk IO/ DLI conflicts with SDX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) Lord Thag, Sorry I can't quote you because of the multiple quotes in your reply. In the first line of my reply I indicated that have saved and loaded spreadsheets using SpeedCalc in SpartaDos X. However, you can't use SpartaDos X's drive letter notation. You must use, for example, D1:my_spreadsheet. -SteveS Edited May 20, 2020 by a8isa1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (Forum tip: you could have quoted Lord Thag ) Highlight the text you want to specifically reply to, tap the popup. Nice feature added I think last year when Albert upgraded the forum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 56 minutes ago, a8isa1 said: Lord Thag, Sorry I can't quote you because of the multiple quotes in your reply. In the first line of my reply I indicated that have saved and loaded spreadsheets using SpeedCalc in SpartaDos X. However, you can't use SpartaDos X's drive letter notation. You must use, for example, D1:my_spreadsheet. -SteveS Hmm, I think I may have had a bad version. I downloaded the AtariWiki enhanced version, and you're right, it does indeed save so long as you use Dx: notation. Neat! Well, that's something. It isn't super stable though. It's locked up a couple of times on me when using formulas, and once saving a file. Still, it's something. With some fooling around we can probably figure out what it doesn't like. Nice find! Still... I miss Syncalc. It's a much better program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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