Current State of Stackpole Plungers

[StationEquation]

From the archives it looks like replacement Stackpole plungers are NLA. Have there been any advances in 3D printing of these?

 

I just pulled my 800 out of the basement for the first time in a decade and wanted to play around with it again. Half a dozen keys stick, but naturally all of the plungers are cracked. Is the PS/2 Pokey card the best bet for these tanks now?

[Kyle22]

I had the same problem. I bought a Mitsumi. Problem SOLVED!

 

The Mitsumi has the same touch and feel across all the models that used it. The original 800, 1200XL, 1400XL, 1450XLD all used a Mitsumi.

The 800 had a few different manufacturers Hi-Tek, Stackpole, Mitsumi. I have never seen a 1200XL or 14?0XL(D) have anything other than that PERFECT Mitsumi keyboard.

 

Edit: Add love for Mitsumi: It is an absolute joy to type on. I would love to find a USB or PS/2 Mitsumi!

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Kyle22

[+slx]

1 hour ago, Kyle22 said:

I had the same problem. I bought a Mitsumi. Problem SOLVED!

Are those the ones that were 5$ at Radio Shack and now fetch >50$ on EBay? 
 

Has anyone done any research into the plungers, whether they all have the same size and what the correct dimensions are? Maybe they can be 3D printed with those liquid resin printers. 

[jamm]

Check out what @ivop has been working on in this thread:

 

[Mclaneinc]

 

Yes, I'm finding getting latch switches  quite hard for the few item that need them, places over here like Farnell have some but the price are not so wonderful.

 

I have 3 monitors with non latching power switches, guess its stick with the wedged bit of paper.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Mclaneinc

[Faicuai]

19 hours ago, StationEquation said:

From the archives it looks like replacement Stackpole plungers are NLA. Have there been any advances in 3D printing of these?

 

I just pulled my 800 out of the basement for the first time in a decade and wanted to play around with it again. Half a dozen keys stick, but naturally all of the plungers are cracked. Is the PS/2 Pokey card the best bet for these tanks now?

Well, I have good (and better) news for you, regarding the current state of affairs:

 

1. After tracking this issue for a long time (on my own side), I've come to the conclusion that, provided appropriate usage and storage conditions, the plungers do crack BUT not to a terminal failure. How do we know? Because as long as they are not pulled / pried out, 75% of the plunger's shaft remains inside its travel-socket, and it is only the upper neck that is exposed.

 

2. The better news is that I have been working on a HiTek & StackPole (Yellow / Green) plungers "re-enforcement & buffering" solution, aimed at a) stopping or eliminating further cracking, b) increasing plunger's integrity without increasing stress, c) provide buffered-stopping to all keys' travel (with special protection for Space Bar) and b) being FULLY reversible, renewable along the keyboards life.

 

It does require special tools to be installed, and there are more parts involved than shown here, but just a little peek of how it looks before per-key travel-adjustment:

 

 

Have been operating it for a few months now, and not only works great, but the tactile-feel (after key-buffering is installed) is very, very good. 

 

We'll see how it goes...

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Faicuai

[Mclaneinc]

Hi there, does this fix cracked plungers?

 

Edit: Would you consider selling any?

Edited March 31, 2021 by Mclaneinc

[Faicuai]

56 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Hi there, does this fix cracked plungers?

 

Edit: Would you consider selling any?

Yes, they do, as long as the plungers' plastic compound is still firm and not disintegrating. They pretty much give you a new lease in life.

 

Have been using them perfectly since I installed this fix (early 2020). Will NOT work on WHITE-plungers keyboards, because those retract fully into their sockets when pressed, contrary to Yellow / Green versions, which stick with a 1mm-neck  above the socket-edges, which is perfect for the silicon-made bands.

 

The first part of the install consists on specially-sized silicon rings (red-colored, installed around the top of the plunger), which will restore integrity to the plungers' walls (bring them "back-in") and further increase retention pressure, and help keys remain in place.

 

The second part involves yet another specially-sized, thicker (transparent) ring that goes underneath any given key, and around its attachment axle. These serve as shock-absorption during vertical key-travel (gives a nice tactile feeling) and protects the whole top-section of the plungers, retarding even more any further cracking.

 

Last time I checked, I could not find more red-rings (first type), and I would have to look again. It seems the secondary rings are still available, but the whole set is require for a successful re-enforcement. No physical change, modifications or damage to any part of the keyboard is performed, and upgrade is fully reversible, without leaving a trace.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Faicuai

[toddtmw]

Where do you get the rings?

[+Stephen]

35 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

Where do you get the rings?

They look like mini o-rings used under the keycaps on many mechanical keyboards.  Here's a quick link to Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Cherry-Rubber-Ring-Switch-Dampeners/dp/B00AZQ2OF8)

 

Rant incoming!

Ignore the incorrect term "dampeners" in the title.  Man that is one of my biggest pet-peeves.  These o-rings do not make the keyboard wet.  DAMPERS, not DAMPENERS.  Please people, learn the damn English language.

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, toddtmw said:

Where do you get the rings?

The came from EBAY:

 

ALL of these rings need to be high-purity silicon rings (food-grade is fine, as well).

 

1. The plunger-rings should be 7mm OD, 5mm ID, 1mm sides. They are not available, but these are the same brand / type: US Stock 100x 5mm OD 3mm ID 1mm Dia Food Grade Silicone Rubber Seal O-Ring Red | eBay

 

2. The Key-buffer rings, are TRANSPARENT, pure-silicon as well. These are available (8mm OD, 6mm ID, 1mm sides): US Stock QTY 100 8mm OD 6mm ID 1mm Dia Food Grade Silicone Rubber Seal O-Ring | eBay

 

You will need a special tool/s to mount them without damaging plungers, keys or rings (especially around the neck of the Plungers). 

 

I was thinking on offering this as a service to any 800 user, but the prices I was coming up (including parts when available and labor) was around $39.95. which includes complete keyboard disassembly, deep cleaning, testing, and re-enforcing). But I am yet to find the right sized rings for the plungers (and the right material quality, as my originally-bought pack...)

Edited March 31, 2021 by Faicuai

[Mazzspeed]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:07 PM, Mclaneinc said:

I have 3 monitors with non latching power switches, guess its stick with the wedged bit of paper.

I'm so paranoid of this I turn my 1084S off at the wall as opposed to using the power switch and potentially wearing it out.

 

Those O rings look similar to automotive grade A/C O rings.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[Mrarkus]

1 hour ago, Faicuai said:

The came from EBAY:

 

ALL of these rings need to be high-purity silicon rings (food-grade is fine, as well).

 

1. The plunger-rings should be 7mm OD, 5mm ID, 1mm sides. They are not available, but these are the same brand / type: US Stock 100x 5mm OD 3mm ID 1mm Dia Food Grade Silicone Rubber Seal O-Ring Red | eBay

 

2. The Key-buffer rings, are TRANSPARENT, pure-silicon as well. These are available (8mm OD, 6mm ID, 1mm sides): US Stock QTY 100 8mm OD 6mm ID 1mm Dia Food Grade Silicone Rubber Seal O-Ring | eBay

 

You will need a special tool/s to mount them without damaging plungers, keys or rings (especially around the neck of the Plungers). 

 

I was thinking on offering this as a service to any 800 user, but the prices I was coming up (including parts when available and labor) was around $39.95. which includes complete keyboard disassembly, deep cleaning, testing, and re-enforcing). But I am yet to find the right sized rings for the plungers (and the right material quality, as my originally-bought pack...)

If you ever find parts and decide to offer the service, I'd love to send one to you! 

[Faicuai]

16 hours ago, Mrarkus said:

If you ever find parts and decide to offer the service, I'd love to send one to you! 

I will start looking deeper, and through other sources, as well.

 

Before settling on the dimensions shown above, I tested several combinations. Those #s are the overall best fit and balance.

 

??

Edited April 1, 2021 by Faicuai

[+slx]

23 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

I'm so paranoid of this I turn my 1084S off at the wall as opposed to using the power switch and potentially wearing it out.

I bought a lot that included a no-name monitor which had been "upgraded" with a switch in the cable (like those used for table lamps) to circumvent the stuck power switch. Replacement switches are available on Ebay.

 

@Faicuai as shipping to the US and back for repairs is not really feasible, what kind of special tools are required? Any chance to see a picture of how that should look installed for the imagination challenged?

[BillC]

On 3/31/2021 at 1:49 PM, Faicuai said:

1. The plunger-rings should be 7mm OD, 5mm ID, 1mm sides.

Would these be compatible, they are 1mm ring thickness and have inside diameters from 5 to 40mm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1mm-Food-Grade-Silicone-O-Ring-Waterproof-Gasket-Washers-Rubber-seal-5mm-40mm/153462607301?hash=item23bb158dc5:g:SZMAAOSwd9dcwCQN.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by BillC

[BillC]

1 hour ago, slx said:

@Faicuai as shipping to the US and back for repairs is not really feasible, what kind of special tools are required? Any chance to see a picture of how that should look installed for the imagination challenged?

I would think stretching the o-rings would allow them to be installed, they would quickly shrink back to fit tightly.

[Mclaneinc]

I found a box of O rings here and it had the right sizes but my yellow plungers almost go flush to the hole, maybe .75mm so more often than not the O ring gets transferred to the key leg once the key is pressed down..

 

Why have I got such a weird 800....

 

[Faicuai]

9 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

I found a box of O rings here and it had the right sizes but my yellow plungers almost go flush to the hole, maybe .75mm so more often than not the O ring gets transferred to the key leg once the key is pressed down..

 

Why have I got such a weird 800....

 

0.75mm should be OK. as long as you implement the WHOLE formula.

 

In order for the plunger-rings to NOT crawl-up into the keys' legs, you need the secondary (buffer) ring underneath the key, as described before. This secondary ring servers two purposes: 1) keeps the plunger-ring in place, and  2) serves as a buffer between the key's bottom-structure and the plunger, thus protecting the latter and delaying / stopping further cracking.

 

Contrary to popular belief, you can safely operate the keyboard with some degree of cracking on the plungers, because the plungers get wrapped on the outside by its socket-walls (especially when pressed in), and are prevented from collapsing inwards by key's own leg. The whole assembly is self-supporting. What we want, however, is to STOP the cracking (by stopping unnecessary travel of key-leg inside plunger), thus avoiding any need for glues, adhesives, or any other repair.

 

Silicon will provide a very long usable life, provided that no exposure to thermal or chemical changes occur. 

 

Been working with these for over a year, now. Time for a short victory lap!

Edited April 2, 2021 by Faicuai

[Mclaneinc]

Sorry for the late reply, thank you for the breakdown @Faicuai I'll get have a go at it in the week. So many little jobs taking so long, went to get a DVI lead to make an RGB lead for a Sophia 2 and after a long slightly naughty drive it was the wrong number of pins (my fault, didn't know there were different configs of the plugs), now I have to wait for a 24+5 dvi solder plug from Aliexpress. arghh..

 

But thanks for the help, I'll give it a go and put some feedback...Cheers..

 

Paul..

Edited April 4, 2021 by Mclaneinc

[rmzalbar]

SLA printers have become cheap enough at last. I'd bet replacements printed with one might be good enough, if the resin itself proves tough enough.

[Mclaneinc]

Well there seems to be a market out there for them, we shall see if anyone wants to test the water..

[tep392]

I just ran across this topic as I was searching for information on these plungers.  I bought an 800 from an AA member maybe six years ago that didn't include the keyboard. I was able to get a NOS keyboard from Best Electronics which is the yellow plunger Stackpole type.  The keys all work smoothly and I haven't had any problems with it.  Out of curiosity I pulled a few of the keys to look at the mechanism.  Several of them do have small cracks but they are tight in the plungers. The plungers pull out with the keys when I remove them.

 

Anybody try these? I decided to order a set, 75 pcs, to see how they work out. 

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/155123593241