+DrVenkman Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 I wonder if they still have the source to their various 8-bit BASICs, and if so, could we convince them to open-source it too? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/microsoft-open-sources-gw-basic/? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmsc Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Hi! 10 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: I wonder if they still have the source to their various 8-bit BASICs, and if so, could we convince them to open-source it too? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/microsoft-open-sources-gw-basic/? Saw this yesterday, they do address that question: Quote What about other ports? Many have asked if we can also open-source implementations for processors other than the 808x. Alas, we’re unable to provide sources for these ports and/or customizations. I suspect the license for those other versions is not clear enough, as it was sold as source multiple times. Old versions of MS-DOS BASIC are very odd, as they were machine-translated from 8080 assembly to 8086; the program even use the CP/M emulation calls in some places instead of standard DOS calls. Sadly, the published version is the already translated one, not the original 8080. Have Fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Uggh, those 6-letter labels are such a pain. The comments may help, but I think I'd stick with my IDA reverse-engineered code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 9 hours ago, DrVenkman said: I wonder if they still have the source to their various 8-bit BASICs, and if so, could we convince them to open-source it too? The 6502 assembly source for Microsoft BASIC was made available five years ago: https://www.pagetable.com/?p=774 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: The 6502 assembly source for Microsoft BASIC was made available five years ago: https://www.pagetable.com/?p=774 Cool. I had no idea. Still, it would be nice of MS would officially open-source it and provide the various platform-specific versions. As @dmsc points out though, there are probably some understandable reasons why they haven’t yet. Some of their licenses were with companies that still exist (Apple), “Atari” (haha, I know, I know. Hence the quotes ...) and whomever is behind the C64 Mini and full-size replicas. Lots of convoluted IP rights issues. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: Still, it would be nice of MS would officially open-source it and provide the various platform-specific versions. It compiles to several different targets: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Thanks to you all. But whom is to ask for permission to host the MS Basic II cart legal on the Wiki? Same to version I on Disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 On 5/23/2020 at 7:59 PM, luckybuck said: Thanks to you all. But whom is to ask for permission to host the MS Basic II cart legal on the Wiki? Same to version I on Disk. I would try to contact the author of the MS blog article linked in the first post of the thread. He's a program manager for command-line tools. Though he's probably not the exact person you're looking for, chances are good he knows the person who is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Is there something GW Basic does or has that any of our existing BASICs don't ? I mean, we probably have enough versions of BASIC, we need a few more of the other things like Pascal etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 @FifthPlayer: thank you, will give it try. ? @Alfred: it is for historical reason to complete the Basic collection towards the Atari 'Ultimate Basic': https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Ultimate Basic Which your extraction of the ACTION! editor is a big, big step towards to. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, Alfred said: Is there something GW Basic does or has that any of our existing BASICs don't 60 KB free RAM in one piece is probably something no existing BASIC for Atari does... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, Alfred said: s there something GW Basic does or has that any of our existing BASICs don't ? GW BASIC was the basic used by millions (including me) on IBM PCs, especially in college computer classes of the timeframe, which is where I used it. The point of my post wasn't about GW BASIC as such, except in as much as wondering what it would take to get IBM to officially open-source their other vintage BASICs. I'm not talking about leaked coded posted and IBM corporate looking the other way because it's too much trouble to bother - I'm talking about IBM saying, "Here, have the code and go nuts!" even if they withhold rights to use it for commercial or derivative products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, drac030 said: 60 KB free RAM in one piece is probably something no existing BASIC for Atari does... How does it get 60KB of free memory on a 64K 800XL ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildOfCv Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, Alfred said: How does it get 60KB of free memory on a 64K 800XL ? IBM Cassette ROM BASIC gives you 63K on a 64K system. When the code is all in ROM and it only needs a little bit of RAM for housekeeping, you can have the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Our friends from Poland have made a 4 MB RAM Update for our A8... Therefore, I dare to think a little bit bigger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+David_P Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 4 hours ago, drac030 said: 60 KB free RAM in one piece is probably something no existing BASIC for Atari does... I think maximum FRE(0) is obtained by running U-BASIC and LiteDOS - around 43K in free memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 I was rather thinking about 65C816 Ataris and using the extra memory past the first 64k for BASIC. For vanilla 800XL yes, more than 45k seems hard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Hard doesn't mean impossible. Take Kennedy's speech: 'We choose to go the moon, not because it's easy..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 8 hours ago, David_P said: I think maximum FRE(0) is obtained by running U-BASIC and LiteDOS - around 43K in free memory. Also something around this with SpartaDOS X: 1 hour ago, luckybuck said: Hard doesn't mean impossible Obviously. But once one reaches the end of the continuous RAM, things get tricky. Also there is a question of already existing programs for the given BASIC dialect (it is not hard to write own BASIC with zero programs for it). This is why it is good to have the backward compatibility with Atari BASIC, and with this it is yet harder, I think, to have more FRE(0) on vanilla 800XL. This is why it would be good to have the GW-BASIC ported onto 65C816 at least (if not to 6502), as there is probably a decent library of already existing programs to run. Just I have no idea how many of them use USR() and CALL instructions, it would be good to know that before an attempt to port that thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Sure, you are right. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) On 5/26/2020 at 4:16 AM, drac030 said: Also something around this with SpartaDOS X: Obviously. But once one reaches the end of the continuous RAM, things get tricky. Also there is a question of already existing programs for the given BASIC dialect (it is not hard to write own BASIC with zero programs for it). This is why it is good to have the backward compatibility with Atari BASIC, and with this it is yet harder, I think, to have more FRE(0) on vanilla 800XL. This is why it would be good to have the GW-BASIC ported onto 65C816 at least (if not to 6502), as there is probably a decent library of already existing programs to run. Just I have no idea how many of them use USR() and CALL instructions, it would be good to know that before an attempt to port that thing. I have long questioned that notion of always being Atari BASIC A,B,C, or Atari Microsoft BASIC compatible (as they are all official Atari Basics).... Much rather have newer faster BASIC flavors with a utility that would convert between Atari BASIC flavors and whatever other BASIC a person chooses to use. It might run slower on the official flavors but thems the brakes! Of course soft loaded BASIC / BASIC(s) with runtime type stuff works just fine in my book.. Edited July 9, 2020 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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