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Tommywilley84

Atari Jaguar is FAR from the best console..

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12 minutes ago, philipj said:

character, which is something you tend to lack...

Shows how little you know CyranoJ. He's quite a character.

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5 minutes ago, Zerosquare said:

Shows how little you know CyranoJ. He's quite a character.

That he is...

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If I was going to be a character, I think I'd be a giant, blue, capital T.

 

If you want to post absurd comments with no proof or code to back them up I suggest you go off and consult with the folk in Moley's facebook group.

 

However, when those comments get corrected having the "whatever" attitude and not stepping up and admitting you are wrong is a mark on your character, not the people leading you towards to light.  It's not the first time this has happened, either...

 

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40 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

If I was going to be a character, I think I'd be a giant, blue, capital T.

 

If you want to post absurd comments with no proof or code to back them up I suggest you go off and consult with the folk in Moley's facebook group.

 

However, when those comments get corrected having the "whatever" attitude and not stepping up and admitting you are wrong is a mark on your character, not the people leading you towards to light.  It's not the first time this has happened, either...

 

 

Knowing you CJ and your underhanded shenanigans, it probably won't be the last either... You know I can't code yet, but if I was to code and bring here, you'd probably just find some other way to sneak some insult jab or some smart remark to get someone out character thinking no one is wise to your slick antics. But I get the feeling I'm not the only one to call you out on that... Carry on.

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26 minutes ago, philipj said:

 

Knowing you CJ and your underhanded shenanigans, it probably won't be the last either... You know I can't code yet, but if I was to code and bring here, you'd probably just find some other way to sneak some insult jab or some smart remark to get someone out character thinking no one is wise to your slick antics. But I get the feeling I'm not the only one to call you out on that... Carry on.

 

Care to define "underhanded shenanigans" - or is that something you've learned from your long-time buddy, Kieren Hawken - because it sounds very much like its come directly from his stash of lies.

Either way, you just made it to the ignore list finally.  Ahh, silence is golden.

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12 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

 

Care to define "underhanded shenanigans" - or is that something you've learned from your long-time buddy, Kieren Hawken - because it sounds very much like its come directly from his stash of lies.

Yeah, that's something I'd like to know as well. I know CJ pretty well. Despite appearances on here, he and I haven't always agreed on things, but I would NEVER question his character because I know him to be an upstanding person. And "underhanded shenanigans" is certainly NOT the way he operates, if you haven't figured it out by now. He's not the most diplomatic person, to put it lightly, but there is never any doubt where he stands, and he doesn't operate in the shadows like a certain Kieren Hawken does. 

 

In short...if you have something to say, philipj, then say it instead of trying to besmirch someone's character with vague accusations.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yeah, that's something I'd like to know as well. I know CJ pretty well. Despite appearances on here, he and I haven't always agreed on things, but I would NEVER question his character because I know him to be an upstanding person. And "underhanded shenanigans" is certainly NOT the way he operates, if you haven't figured it out by now. He's not the most diplomatic person, to put it lightly, but there is never any doubt where he stands, and he doesn't operate in the shadows like a certain Kieren Hawken does. 

 

In short...if you have something to say, philipj, then say it instead of trying to besmirch someone's character with vague accusations.

 

 

 

I think he wants me kicked out of Atari Age... Saying certain things to try and push my buttons so he can report it and get me banned or get certain topics I frequent locked just so it can be said that philipj is causing problems. You wanted to know, there it is... I'm not one to accuse anyone of anything, but I'm not a fool either... I just call it like I see it. I also take offence to to his "Verbal nappy" comment! 😠

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Guys. Such drama. I slap you all with wet fish. Wet fish is known to have calming effect.

 

Ya know, I disagree with the premise of this thread. Jaguar isn't far from the best console. Considering the literal hundreds of consoles throughout history that have existed, I think it sits squarely on the side of those worthwhile. Yeah most Nintendo consoles are better, most SEGA ones, some Atari ones, all PlayStation ones, all Xbox ones, sure... but there's still a lot more consoles out there.

 

Even considering only the 5th gen... stuff like Amiga CD 32? Pfft... PC-FX? No thank you. Apple Pippin? Oh yeah, that thing existed didn't it... FM Towns Marty? I'll pass. I'd go even as far as to say Jaguar is better than SEGA 32x. As for 3DO? Just maybe. There's clearly more consoles that aren't as good, than ones that are better. Just sayin'.

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20 minutes ago, philipj said:

 

I think he wants me kicked out of Atari Age... Saying certain things to try and push my buttons so he can report it and get me banned or get certain topics I frequent locked just so it can be said that philipj is causing problems. You wanted to know, there it is... I'm not one to accuse anyone of anything, but I'm not a fool either... I just call it like I see it. I also take offence to to his "Verbal nappy" comment! 😠

LOL, really? No, neither CJ nor anyone else wants you banned from here. The troublemakers are long gone, and you've never been considered one of them. Considering your membership in Kieren's old FB group, there's certainly some wariness, but that's far from wanting to have you banned. If CJ corrects something you've said, it's because he knows better than you. That's it. He's not trying to push your buttons, and he's certainly not trying to get you banned. If anyone has tried telling you otherwise, they're full of shit, plain and simple.

 

 

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Yea... I just returned before this turn into some kind of crap show... 

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

he doesn't operate in the shadows like a certain Kieren Hawken does. 

I heard about that little mess... I don't know the full details, but it's unfortunate whatever happen in that regard, we shouldn't be fighting with each other at a game forum of all places. My knowledge of that is from rumors and rumors only, if you're implying I had anything to do with whatever that mess one, please understand that I visit forums and try and input the best types of post that I can put out there to keep the vibe as positive as I can. We all know what flame wars, trolls and other arguments.

 

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

LOL, really? No, neither CJ nor anyone else wants you banned from here. The troublemakers are long gone, and you've never been considered one of them. Considering your membership in Kieren's old FB group, there's certainly some wariness, but that's far from wanting to have you banned. If CJ corrects something you've said, it's because he knows better than you. That's it. He's not trying to push your buttons, and he's certainly not trying to get you banned. If anyone has tried telling you otherwise, they're full of shit, plain and simple.

 

 

 

You posted before I could get my post mine; was still typing when you posted... No one has told me anything, I have a mind of my own. I don't post at AA as often as I use to and when I do, it's usually just one or two or just a few subjects I'll visit from time to time. I know what it is for someone to be worrisome and I try not be that or erroneously start throwing accusations around on people unless I have reason to, but even with that, I usually keep it to myself to avoid situation like this unless someone ask me come out with it. I came out with it so there it is, but CJ came at me first.

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4 minutes ago, philipj said:

Yea... I just returned before this turn into some kind of crap show... 

I heard about that little mess... I don't know the full details, but it's unfortunate whatever happen in that regard, we shouldn't be fighting with each other at a game forum of all places. My knowledge of that is from rumors and rumors only, if you're implying I had anything to do with whatever that mess one, please understand that I visit forums and try and input the best types of post that I can put out there to keep the vibe as positive as I can. We all know what flame wars, trolls and other arguments.

I wasn't implying that you had any part in Kieren's shenanigans, only that your opinion of CJ or others here may have been colored at least in part by him. If you do want to know the extent of his shenanigans, though, there's a 65 page thread as well as a few Youtube videos that can give you a pretty clear idea.

 

 

7 minutes ago, philipj said:

You posted before I could get my post mine; was still typing when you posted... No one has told me anything, I have a mind of my own. I don't post at AA as often as I use to and when I do, it's usually just one or two or just a few subjects I'll visit from time to time. I know what it is for someone to be worrisome and I try not be that or erroneously start throwing accusations around on people unless I have reason to, but even with that, I usually keep it to myself to avoid situation like this unless someone ask me come out with it. I came out with it so there it is, but CJ came at me first.

Fair enough. Hopefully though at least now you know where you stand. No one wants you banned from here.

 

 

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2 hours ago, philipj said:

 

I think he wants me kicked out of Atari Age... Saying certain things to try and push my buttons so he can report it and get me banned or get certain topics I frequent locked just so it can be said that philipj is causing problems.

I think he just wants you to stop talking out of your ass without explanation. I.e., lay off stuff like, "Durr, I bet the Jaguar could probably do this and that, even though I have no idea how the Jaguar actually works, but because I imagined the idea, it clearly can." Not only is it annoying, but it makes you look like a complete doofus.

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What the hell is this thread even about anymore? I was unclear of where it was going from the very first couple of posts. Now I have absolutely no idea what's the topic of discussion anymore.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 5200Fanatic said:

the best thing about old generation consoles is that they handled graphics differently and the images looked different. You could look at a screen and often could guess which console it was. 

And home micros ;-)

 

When i think back to the 8-bit Home Computer era, Gang Of 5 wrote 3 seperate versions of Dan Dare on the C64,ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC,  each made great use of the hardware and were fantastic games to boot.

 

Robocop 2 on ST and Amiga different games..

 

MD and SNES Aladdin and Robocop Vs Terminator different games.

 

Miss those days 😢

 

We are about to enter another console generation of both machines doing same sh#t

 

AVP literally sold the Jaguar to me.

 

There was simply nothing like it on affordable hardware,when I saw it running.

 

Want B-) 

Edited by Lost Dragon

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4 hours ago, Warmsignal said:

Guys. Such drama. I slap you all with wet fish. Wet fish is known to have calming effect.

 

Ya know, I disagree with the premise of this thread. Jaguar isn't far from the best console. Considering the literal hundreds of consoles throughout history that have existed, I think it sits squarely on the side of those worthwhile. Yeah most Nintendo consoles are better, most SEGA ones, some Atari ones, all PlayStation ones, all Xbox ones, sure... but there's still a lot more consoles out there.

 

Even considering only the 5th gen... stuff like Amiga CD 32? Pfft... PC-FX? No thank you. Apple Pippin? Oh yeah, that thing existed didn't it... FM Towns Marty? I'll pass. I'd go even as far as to say Jaguar is better than SEGA 32x. As for 3DO? Just maybe. There's clearly more consoles that aren't as good, than ones that are better. Just sayin'.

CD32 at one pointed tempted me.

 

I was a huge fan of Captive on the ST and Liberation on CD32 was something i looked at with envy.

 

Ditto Guardian.. 

 

And it had a few titles annouced for the Jaguar, but never arrived.

 

But the absurd prices put me completely off.

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2 hours ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

What the hell is this thread even about anymore? I was unclear of where it was going from the very first couple of posts. Now I have absolutely no idea what's the topic of discussion anymore.

 

Basically it's looking at developer ambitions Vs  realistic Hardware performance on both Jaguar and N64 and how the games by their very nature have aged?.

 

That's why you see examples of things like Battlemorph,Hoverstrike U.L, Perfect Dark etc.

 

Games from development teams more mature with the understanding of the hardware, but the hardware still lagging behind the ambition. 

 

There..

 

Thread back on topic?

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8 hours ago, Austin said:

I think he just wants you to stop talking out of your ass without explanation. I.e., lay off stuff like, "Durr, I bet the Jaguar could probably do this and that, even though I have no idea how the Jaguar actually works, but because I imagined the idea, it clearly can." Not only is it annoying, but it makes you look like a complete doofus.

Look buddy, you chase your dreams your way and I'll chase mine, thank you... Until I master this programming thing I'll continue to theorize based on what I know and post accordingly. If you can't handle it, that's your problem, not mine... But seriously I'll work harder to keep my post correct as possible, but I get the feeling that's still won't be satisfying to some here so the heck with it; I'll post what I think is best... This is a forum after all, I'll take my chances.

 

Besides most of the stuff I post publicly are based on general knowledge most are familiar with... I haven't even posted the crazy off the wall ideas I have yet for concern folks would really think that I'm off my rockers; I keep that part secret. 🤪

 

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

Fair enough. Hopefully though at least now you know where you stand. No one wants you banned from here.

That's good to know.

 

5 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

Thread back on topic?

Yes please... Let's get back on topic.

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6 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

And home micros ;-)

 

When i think back to the 8-bit Home Computer era, Gang Of 5 wrote 3 seperate versions of Dan Dare on the C64,ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC,  each made great use of the hardware and were fantastic games to boot.

 

Robocop 2 on ST and Amiga different games..

 

MD and SNES Aladdin and Robocop Vs Terminator different games.

 

Miss those days 😢

 

We are about to enter another console generation of both machines doing same sh#t

 

AVP literally sold the Jaguar to me.

 

There was simply nothing like it on affordable hardware,when I saw it running.

 

Want B-) 

Just wanted to add this is something (at least I think so) we can all agree here.

 

People will say what they want regarding N64, Jag, etc, but regardless of the camp you occupy, we all agree it was a fascinating time for games. One that will never come back, sadly.

 

If you had a port for 5 consoles , chances were the 5 versions would be different.

 

There WAS a reason to have a Neo Geo vs SNES, etc.

 

Even the Jag, with all its flaws, I LOVE it because it feels completely different to the 32x, 3DO, Saturn, etc.

 

The other day I was commenting in a Mad Little Pixel video that SNK is coming back with a new console.  Honestly, who cares... chances are it will be another 3d focused console, running a lot of multi plat games all having the same Unreal 4 look.

 

It's become the same thing all accross the board.  So effing boring if anyone cares for my opinion.

 

If Sega came back with a Dreamcast 2, it would be EXACTLY like a PS5, not an ounce different.

 

I love to no end the fact all retro consoles had their own voice.  Really miss those days.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

And home micros ;-)

 

When i think back to the 8-bit Home Computer era, Gang Of 5 wrote 3 seperate versions of Dan Dare on the C64,ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC,  each made great use of the hardware and were fantastic games to boot.

 

Robocop 2 on ST and Amiga different games..

 

MD and SNES Aladdin and Robocop Vs Terminator different games.

 

Miss those days 😢

 

We are about to enter another console generation of both machines doing same sh#t

 

AVP literally sold the Jaguar to me.

 

There was simply nothing like it on affordable hardware,when I saw it running.

 

Want B-) 

Ironically most ports for the Jaguar are identical with their siblings on MD and SNES, with very minor technical differences between the versions e.g. Flashback, Cannon Fodder, Pitfall. (Because all systems have comparable specs?) Multiplatform titles across MD and SNES were mostly identical siblings too, same with Amiga and ST (ST in most cases got the inferior version due to technical limitations). Then PS1/N64/Dreamcast multiplats with minor technical differences between the versions, sadly often underusing the DC hardware. All in all it was not that much different compared to what publishers still do nowadays: port a game to all popular formats under the sun and avoid extra costs/expenses.

 

As far as I know Alladin for MD was an exclusive game by Dave Perrys team, the SNES Alladin is a complete new game by Capcom based on the same license. 

Nintendo systems always were defined by their first party exclusive games, and that is not much different with e.g. Sonys Playstation. Exclusives are considered the system sellers for a particular console, Mario, Sonic, Alien vs Predator, Halo, Gran Turismo etc.

 

As for movie and arcade license games of those "good old days", they wildly varied in quality from crap to decent, so it was rather hit and miss and often companies ripped off consumers with subpar license junk, like ports of Mortal Kombat for Game Gear and GameBoy or the infamous movie license cashgrabs by THQ and Ocean software for the SNES.   I really don't miss that. ;-)

 

The NeoGeo was very unique system, but  most people simply could not afford it. ;-)   

 

I could be wrong, but developers actually hate it to deal with wacky architectures and technical limitations when they just want to bring their game to different platforms/audiences  in the best way possible and how it was intended to be. 

Edited by agradeneu
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The 16-bit to Jaguar ports reminded me more of the SNES than MD, 256 colours and better than MD samples.

 

Flashback was odd though.

 

Faster cinematics, but slowdown in areas the M D version didn't suffer it.

 

Audio quieter as well, but it's Tiertex. 

 

Imagitec Design did similar mish-mash with Pitfall:Mayan Adventure, better colours, but half the frame rate.

 

Syndicate had a pointless Zoom-in feature and felt a lot choppier than i remembered on the Amiga, but that could be my memory failing me.

 

ST had very slight edge in polygon 3D titles, but the Amiga slaughtered it in sound and 2D when it came to likes of:

 

Midnight Resistance, Golden Axe,Pac-Mania etc.

 

Felt envious of Amiga owning friends then.

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3 hours ago, marcio_napoli said:

People will say what they want regarding N64, Jag, etc, but regardless of the camp you occupy, we all agree it was a fascinating time for games. One that will never come back, sadly.

 

If you had a port for 5 consoles , chances were the 5 versions would be different.

One obvious example where this actually happened - Doom on 32x, 3DO, Jag, Saturn, PS1, and N64. Although most versions were based on the Jaguar one, and PS1 was kind of a hybrid. N64 would have been the obvious choice, but of course they opted for an entirely new version (the long lost promise of the 3DO version?) instead of porting the original ... yet it's still basically Doom on N64.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, marcio_napoli said:

Just wanted to add this is something (at least I think so) we can all agree here.

 

People will say what they want regarding N64, Jag, etc, but regardless of the camp you occupy, we all agree it was a fascinating time for games. One that will never come back, sadly.

 

If you had a port for 5 consoles , chances were the 5 versions would be different.

 

There WAS a reason to have a Neo Geo vs SNES, etc.

 

Even the Jag, with all its flaws, I LOVE it because it feels completely different to the 32x, 3DO, Saturn, etc.

 

The other day I was commenting in a Mad Little Pixel video that SNK is coming back with a new console.  Honestly, who cares... chances are it will be another 3d focused console, running a lot of multi plat games all having the same Unreal 4 look.

 

It's become the same thing all accross the board.  So effing boring if anyone cares for my opinion.

 

If Sega came back with a Dreamcast 2, it would be EXACTLY like a PS5, not an ounce different.

 

I love to no end the fact all retro consoles had their own voice.  Really miss those days.

This this this. 

 

my room mates kid has the latest PS and Xbox one whatever, one for grandma's place and one for here. Sometimes they both end up here and the same games on the 2 different platforms look the same. All the fps games look the same. Fort nite etc. Might as well be running on the same system. Both systems have the same personality

Edited by JagChris

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, JagChris said:

This this this. 

 

my room mates kid has the latest PS and Xbox one whatever, one for grandma's place and one for here. Sometimes they both end up here and the same games on the 2 different platforms look the same. All the fps games look the same. Fort nite etc. Might as well be running on the same system. Both systems have the same personality

Same game looks the same. Fortnite is Fortnite. Thankfully, no downgrades or technical issues. Perfection can be a little boring sometimes, especially for people not playing the game, yes. ;-)  Take Doom for example, Saturn and 3DO got really botched ports with unhappy players and devs. Nobody really liked that but it's just very interesting for analysts and journos to write stories about it.

 

The look of a game is defined by the art design: Borderlands 3, Fortnite and that new Jedi game all use Unreal 4 but look VERY different. You could do Pixel Art 2D style as well. Besides Unreal, there are also Unity, Source, Doom by ID and tons of custom engines. 

Edited by agradeneu

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51 minutes ago, JagChris said:

The stepford children were perfect too. They just had no soul 😂

That's only one perspective. I can understand that collectors want a variety of unique weird systems, as many a possible, to play all games, even the wacky and crappy ones.

However for a modern user and player the future looks more and more like that you just need to buy one box that plays all games. Devs want it, players want it. You expect a Blue Ray/DVD player to play all your movies right? It's not about unique hardware, its about unique games.  That is where the soul is. People will remember games, not the hardware they were running on. 

Im not surprised by a bit, that Jaguar fans are mostly focusing on hardware cult, for obvious reasons. ;-)

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