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Steven Pendleton

The Official Sega Saturn Thread!

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19 minutes ago, Cobra Kai said:

A couple of quality shmups that won't break the bank are Sonic Wings Special, Strikers 1945 and Galactic Attack (Raystorm/Rayforce?), also Darius Gaiden.

Galactic Attack is great. I have the Japanese version called Layer Section.

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29 minutes ago, Lord Innit said:

Galactic Attack is great. I have the Japanese version called Layer Section.

I really don't get why the changed the title. Same with Darius Force and Super Nova.

 

Changing Darius Force made even less sense since Darius had already been used in the West in the series.

Edited by DragonGrafx-16
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5 hours ago, Cobra Kai said:

Why would that be hidden? I'm not disputing you, it just seems odd, I mean wouldn't you always want to play any game 60fps? 

 

I can only venture a guess on why Rutubo Games went that route with Outrun, but some have noted how it negatively affected the game's sense of speed. Along with perhaps the feeling that an arcade accurate representation should be the default setup, I can see why they made 60 fps mode an option rather than the default.

 

As for why it's not available in plain sight in the options and is instead hidden behind a button code, I really don't know. Many a developer through the years though has locked and hidden away useful features that should be readily available by default, so they've got a lot of company at least. 

 

Here's some quotes from M2's interview for their Sega 3D Classics port of arcade Outrun to the 3DS to back up my statements with, dealing with the classic Saturn release since that was the previous best home version of Outrun before M2 took on the challenge. 

 

"When you played the Sega Saturn version normally, it would run just like the arcade version at 30 FPS, but by putting in a cheat code, you could run the game at 60 FPS."

 

"We didn’t have the Saturn source code available to us, so we weren’t able to thoroughly investigate how Rutubo went about handling it, but the Saturn version’s 60 Frame Mode had this aspect where everything ran really smoothly, but it also lost its sense of speed. 3D Out Run does not suffer from that."

 

M2 had the right idea on the 3DS and Switch ports. 60 fps is the default mode and 30 fps arcade mode is hidden away but quickly unlocked by anyone that spends any amount of time with those ports (I believe the criteria is simply to reach all five goals). Everyone is catered to, the game defaults to what's arguably the superior presentation, and the arcade accurate 30 fps original style is easily and quickly opened up as an option for the minority that prefer it.

Edited by Atariboy
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YouTuber Sega Lord X just posted his top 25 Saturn games.  He'd previously posted his top 10.

He definitely knows Sega well and has videos I like quite a bit, but I won't say my top 25 look a lot like his:

 

25. Legend of Oasis

24. Virtua Cop 2

23. Saturn Bomberman

22. Galactic Attack (Layer Section)

21. Dragon Force II 

20. Dark Savior

19. Astal

18. Cotton 2

17. GunGriffon

16. Street Fighter Collection

15. Magic Knight Rayearth

14. Policenauts

13. NiGHTs Into Dreams

12. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei

11. Virtua Fighter 2

10. Guardian Heroes

9.  Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter

8.  Shining the Holy Ark

7.  Mystaria: Realms of Lore

6.  Street Fighter Zero 3

5.  PowerSlave

4.  Panzer Dragoon

3.  Sega Rally Championship

2.  Shining Force III

1.  Dragon Force

 

Without making a whole top 25 just yet, I will just say that I liked some of his less well known picks.

Personally, I would have bumped some of these off (never played Policenauts, MKR, Astal, GunGriffon, or Dragon Force II) in favor of a few that I either personally just love knowing others might not, or a few that I'm pretty shocked didn't make an appearance.  Die Hard Arcade would be in my top 5 easily, for one.  For some others, Mass Destruction (runs at 60 fps!), Fighter's MegaMix, NightWarriors or Vampire Savior, Virtua Cop, Wing Arms, Three Dirty Dwarves, Duke Nuke'm 3d, X-Men vs SF (not really sure if this is technically better than Marvel vs SF but I have a place in my heart for it), Radiant Silvergun, all great games.  What an amazing system, particularly considering the general populace's opinion of it, that there can be so much debate over even a top 25 games for it!

 

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20 hours ago, Lord Innit said:

Ah, I asked because I saw a video of someone who had a dead battery in his Saturn and only the green light came on. When he removed the battery the console booted up.  The other thing it could be is if you have a Yamaha power supply, one or two capacitors may have gone bad.  I have a screen grab of said likely capacitors.

Screenshot_20210820-153220.png

Alright, I'll take a look at the PSU. Not now, though; I'm pretty tired and I want to get some sleep. I don't have a way to recap it, but you know.

Edited by Steven Pendleton

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On 8/20/2021 at 5:36 PM, Atariboy said:

 

I can only venture a guess on why Rutubo Games went that route with Outrun, but some have noted how it negatively affected the game's sense of speed. Along with perhaps the feeling that an arcade accurate representation should be the default setup, I can see why they made 60 fps mode an option rather than the default.

Yep, I am one of those that prefers playing Saturn OutRun at 30fps because it feels faster/has a greater sense of speed.

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On 8/21/2021 at 1:04 AM, Hydro Thunder said:

YouTuber Sega Lord X just posted his top 25 Saturn games.  He'd previously posted his top 10.

He definitely knows Sega well and has videos I like quite a bit, but I won't say my top 25 look a lot like his:

 

25. Legend of Oasis

24. Virtua Cop 2

23. Saturn Bomberman

22. Galactic Attack (Layer Section)

21. Dragon Force II 

20. Dark Savior

19. Astal

18. Cotton 2

17. GunGriffon

16. Street Fighter Collection

15. Magic Knight Rayearth

14. Policenauts

13. NiGHTs Into Dreams

12. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei

11. Virtua Fighter 2

10. Guardian Heroes

9.  Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter

8.  Shining the Holy Ark

7.  Mystaria: Realms of Lore

6.  Street Fighter Zero 3

5.  PowerSlave

4.  Panzer Dragoon

3.  Sega Rally Championship

2.  Shining Force III

1.  Dragon Force

 

Without making a whole top 25 just yet, I will just say that I liked some of his less well known picks.

Personally, I would have bumped some of these off (never played Policenauts, MKR, Astal, GunGriffon, or Dragon Force II) in favor of a few that I either personally just love knowing others might not, or a few that I'm pretty shocked didn't make an appearance.  Die Hard Arcade would be in my top 5 easily, for one.  For some others, Mass Destruction (runs at 60 fps!), Fighter's MegaMix, NightWarriors or Vampire Savior, Virtua Cop, Wing Arms, Three Dirty Dwarves, Duke Nuke'm 3d, X-Men vs SF (not really sure if this is technically better than Marvel vs SF but I have a place in my heart for it), Radiant Silvergun, all great games.  What an amazing system, particularly considering the general populace's opinion of it, that there can be so much debate over even a top 25 games for it!

 

i <3 sega lord x

 

also, i can never tell the difference in frame rates *unless it's super slow*.   Even in side by side videos comparing 30 and 60 I am constantly asking myself what am i seeing!?  is one just choppier than the other?

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On 8/21/2021 at 2:04 PM, Hydro Thunder said:

What an amazing system, particularly considering the general populace's opinion of it, that there can be so much debate over even a top 25 games for it!

Yeah, I was kind of undecided on the Saturn when I first got it, but I've been able to put a lot of time into it over the past 6 months or so and it's quickly become one of my absolute favourite systems ever. PC > Japanese Mega Drive (not a good system to collect for because of the relative rarity of its games and their high prices, sadly) > and then it's a tossup between the Saturn and the Neo Geo. I still can't believe how excellent the Saturn is. It's so good.

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On 8/20/2021 at 12:20 PM, Lord Innit said:

Galactic Attack is great. I have the Japanese version called Layer Section.

That's the name I was looking for, Layer Section. I do like that game, even though I'm not a huge fan of the Xevious style, where you have regular airborne targets and ground targets requiring different firing buttons. I prefer regular shots and screen-clearing bombs.

 

What I like about Galactic Attack are the graphics overall, and the  effects used to make it look like you're continuously descending deeper into the planet with each stage. I love that progression there. Also, the announcer guy cracks me up when he tells you to 'make a left turn' while you're in outer space. This game has pretty good action.

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On 9/3/2021 at 12:19 AM, electricmastro said:

Interesting port of a game from the Warcraft series on Saturn:

 

 

I have and love this version of WarCraft II (one of my faves of all time).  The big plus of the Saturn / PSX version of the game IIRC vs the computer version is that you can queue units to be built.  The PC game is old enough that it didn't have that feature (hard to even imagine now, after so many great RTS games by this point).

Love the sound effects, the graphics, the voices, the music.  Takes a LOT of blocks of memory IIRC, but that is ok if you have a Ram cart.

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Alright, another question: I have discovered that the initial print of Space Harrier does not work on the later Saturn revisions. They fixed it in a revision, but I have yet to find how to distinguish between revisions other than just buying a lot of Space Harriers to see which ones work in my Saturn and which don't. I know that the revision of Out Run that works on later Saturn revisions has a different code on the disc itself, so if anyone knows if there is a code on the Space Harrier disc is and what the specific code I need is or any other way to identify them without actually trying to run them in a Saturn, that would be super tasty.

 

I don't know if anyone posted it before, but if you have a Saturn motherboard revision between VA10 and VA15 and want to play Out Run, you need to get the disc with the code GS-9110P-01050A-P1K on the disc. The initial version has GS-9110P-01050-P1C on the disc and this version won't run on the later Saturn revisions. Hopefully Space Harrier has something similar. I'm looking for information on this myself, but if someone knows, that would be greatly appreciated.

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I'm glad that Sega Lord X is well-liked here. While I do remember the Saturn, I only played one game during its commercial run. It was a First-person game that was on the move, and I can't remember the title. Aside from that, why hasn't anyone discussed Time Warner's Psychic Assassin Taromaru?

 

As for Guardian Heroes, you guys would be surprised at the number of clones of Treasure's best Saturn game that have been made in its wake. (E. G. Guardian Heroines for PC, Code of Princess for 3DS, and Streets of Fury EX for PC just to name three.) Cotton 2 and Bulk Slash have gotten English translations, with the latter getting a dub. I await Taromaru and Wachenröder getting translated.

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Taromaru is a real fun game, I would love to find one at a somewhat reasonable price one day but I really enjoyed it very much! 

 

I am waiting for Wachenroder and Princess Crown for some English translations as I am really interested in the way the Polymega is supposed to patch them in.

 

I was able to get a copy of Bulk Slash this weekend on Ebay for 100 dollars taking advantage of a Make Offer from  a seller in Japan.

 

I would love to be able to find a Battlesport / Taromaru / Liquid Kids on a good deal too!

 

I am interested in what you all think is your fave Saturn game you can keep coming back too?

 

For me it is Space Harrier, I just never seem to tire of it.

 

 

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19 hours ago, imstarryeyed said:

 

I am interested in what you all think is your fave Saturn game you can keep coming back too?

Sega Rally.  25 years on and I  still play it at least once a month.

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7 hours ago, James Vontor said:

Where is the love for Fighters Megamix in here? 

 

Clearly better than VF or VF2 to me. Makes fighting vipers characters appear in playable game. lol

I am definitely a FMM fan, but it comes and goes.  I enjoy the game to pieces, especially some of the crazier characters.  But it's so weirdly floaty it's hard to love day in and day out.  I DO love that the VF characters have VF3 movesets, that's for sure.  And love the Vipers armor breaking tactics, and stage border breaking final moves are great too.

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On 9/13/2021 at 5:05 PM, Lord Innit said:

Sega Rally.  25 years on and I  still play it at least once a month.

Yeah, Sega Rally is probably my most-played title on the console in recent times. It's pretty much mandatory playing when I fire up my console. It takes about five minutes to go through the entire arcade mode, so I can knock out several runs in one go while having it be both satisfying and light on the time commitment. I love that it's constantly challenging and it really requires me to be on-point if I want to see the bonus course (let alone win it!).

Edited by Austin
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1 hour ago, Austin said:

Yeah, Sega Rally is probably my most-played title on the console in recent times. It's pretty much mandatory playing when I fire up my console. It takes about five minutes to go through the entire arcade mode, so I can knock out several runs in one go while having it be both satisfying and light on the time commitment. I love that it's constantly challenging and it really requires me to be on-point if I want to see the bonus course (let alone win it!).

Exactly this. Plus sometimes I'll just have a quick blast through some time trials. Very satisfying to beat an old lap record eventually. 

Sega Rally is the game that persuaded me to get a Saturn.  

 

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