Did some Atari 800's not have RAM carts inside?

[leech]

29 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

interestingly the ST issue wasn't exactly over heating either, it was an early socket design issues not related to Atari, and there was a fix... metal cross braces and shims.... it held the square sockets mid points again the chips and maybe just maybe acted as small heat sinks...

so after a cool down and a drop check, if the machine was working.... the square chips were removed from their sockets... heat applied to the socket allowed to relax and cool, chips were then re inserted with the cross brace and shim assembly... problem solved...     socket fatigue and deformation, go figure.

Ha, so that is why I have seen those cross bars on some of the chips in my various STs!

[StickJock]

I didn't have overheating issues with my Ataris.  My Sinclair ZX81, however....

[Faicuai]

10 hours ago, kogden said:

The ST was far cheaper than a comparable PC in 1985 and spanked it in every way that counted.  I still have mine.

 

They also overheated as badly as the 800.  And the build quality left a lot to be desired.  But they were awesome too.  

 

Had the 400, 800XLs and 1040ST (the latter well into mid-College, when I switched to PC/486).

1. The 1040 did not spank any comparable PC, in every way that counted... because it did not have the architecture to do so, to begin with. As for Cost / Megabyte, however, it was on a class of its own, and it served me really, really well.
2. The 1040 build-quality (just as the XE-series) is the "Tramielized" legacy. Nevertheless,  besides corroding massively when exposed to humidity, it did work as far as I needed it, without failing. Never saw overheating issues with either 520STs or my 1040st.
3. The 800's enclosed RAM-boards were not designed with thermal efficiency in mind. Shed those shells, however, and there were no overheating issues (of any kind) with the 800. We sold quite a bunch of them, back in my early-years work in sales (IT), including C64s, c128s, STs, Amigas, HP-150s, Epson QX-10s, IBM PS/2, Olivetti's, etc...

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Faicuai

[TGB1718]

13 hours ago, kogden said:

They also overheated as badly as the 800

I had an early STM and later a 1040, both were extensively used and on for long periods, I never had

any problems with overheating, still have them both and still working, with a hard drive attached

they work fine, but floppies not so good, but I'm thinking its degraded floppy disks left in a cold damp environment for far too long.

[Goochman]

a buddy of mine his Dad had a 400 and 800 on 24x7 365.  1 was connected to an antenna pointed at Space - think pre-SETI.  The other was hooked up to a seismograph checking for earthquake activity.  The seismograph picked up Mt St Helens eruption and we were located on the East Coast of the US.

 

He had to reboot the machines maybe once a month - but they never overheated and ran for atleast the 3 years I knew the guy.

[leech]

1 hour ago, Goochman said:

a buddy of mine his Dad had a 400 and 800 on 24x7 365.  1 was connected to an antenna pointed at Space - think pre-SETI.  The other was hooked up to a seismograph checking for earthquake activity.  The seismograph picked up Mt St Helens eruption and we were located on the East Coast of the US.

 

He had to reboot the machines maybe once a month - but they never overheated and ran for atleast the 3 years I knew the guy.

Very cool!  I want my 800 to check for earthquakes! 

The only part on my 800xl I had back in the day that would get hot was the powersupply.  Crappy ingots!

I don't think I have used my old 800 that has the cases long enough to ever have them heat up.

[kogden]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:02 PM, Faicuai said:

 

Had the 400, 800XLs and 1040ST (the latter well into mid-College, when I switched to PC/486).

1. The 1040 did not spank any comparable PC, in every way that counted... because it did not have the architecture to do so, to begin with. As for Cost / Megabyte, however, it was on a class of its own, and it served me really, really well.
2. The 1040 build-quality (just as the XE-series) is the "Tramielized" legacy. Nevertheless,  besides corroding massively when exposed to humidity, it did work as far as I needed it, without failing. Never saw overheating issues with either 520STs or my 1040st.
3. The 800's enclosed RAM-boards were not designed with thermal efficiency in mind. Shed those shells, however, and there were no overheating issues (of any kind) with the 800. We sold quite a bunch of them, back in my early-years work in sales (IT), including C64s, c128s, STs, Amigas, HP-150s, Epson QX-10s, IBM PS/2, Olivetti's, etc...

 

1.). Show me a PC at a comparable price point that performed better in 1985.  An 8Mhz 68000 was more than a match for the 286.  The only thing the ST lacked was a decent expansion bus or a math co.  And the onboard video was certainly nicer than CGA in most respects.  You weren't going to get a 286 with EGA, Adlib card and MIDI, HDD interface, multiple joystick ports and 1MB of RAM for $1,000.

 

2.) We had half a dozen ST's over the years.  Dying RAM and heat issues were fairly common but not extreme.  Having to reseat socketed chips and such wasn't uncommon either with our machines that ran nearly 24/7 like our BBS.  The cheap build quality made RAM upgrades and repairs pretty spooky as well.  My old ST's all have more modern power supplies and such now.  Biggest issues I have now are failing monitor ports and trying to keep those CRTs running.

 

3.). I never said shedding the shells didn't work, just that on release the 800 overheated. 

[+slx]

On 6/9/2020 at 8:02 PM, Faicuai said:

The 800's enclosed RAM-boards were not designed with thermal efficiency in mind. Shed those shells, however, and there were no overheating issues (of any kind) with the 800. We sold quite a bunch of them, back in my early-years work in sales (IT), including C64s, c128s, STs, Amigas, HP-150s, Epson QX-10s, IBM PS/2, Olivetti's, etc...

The original encased RAM boards were designed to allow non-techies to safely expand the RAM of their machines without touching anything delicate or zapping static sensitive components. Once 48K became the delivery standard, encasing them became pointless and the compartment was screwed shut.

[leech]

18 minutes ago, slx said:

The original encased RAM boards were designed to allow non-techies to safely expand the RAM of their machines without touching anything delicate or zapping static sensitive components. Once 48K became the delivery standard, encasing them became pointless and the compartment was screwed shut.

That actually makes the most sense.  Saves costs too.

[+slx]

Just now, leech said:

That actually makes the most sense.  Saves costs too.

But then I loved opening the case and taking out and re-inserting my 48K of RAM from time to time  

Just because I could!

[leech]

6 minutes ago, slx said:

But then I loved opening the case and taking out and re-inserting my 48K of RAM from time to time  

Just because I could!

Ha, glad I am nit the only one!

[Mclaneinc]

On 6/10/2020 at 1:04 PM, Goochman said:

a buddy of mine his Dad had a 400 and 800 on 24x7 365.  1 was connected to an antenna pointed at Space - think pre-SETI.  The other was hooked up to a seismograph checking for earthquake activity.  The seismograph picked up Mt St Helens eruption and we were located on the East Coast of the US.

 

He had to reboot the machines maybe once a month - but they never overheated and ran for atleast the 3 years I knew the guy.

 

Great story, I love hearing about stuff like this...