Custom controllers and me.

[TheClassyGamer]

Well, here I am.

 

More to the point, I've been messing around with the 5200 again after having put it away for quite some time and decided to try out some different controllers. Several years ago I picked up a modded system and over time games and controllers.  A few months back I got it out of storage and started messing with it. 

 

I recently traded it off because I got a deal on a modded 4 port system. 

 

So here is where I stand.

 

Out of the original controllers, I have 1 that is fully working.  The others have various issues but I believe can all be fixed.

 

With plans to get some of them working I recently picked up the test cartridge to try and figure out what ones seemed to be adjusted the best.  Oddly they all seemed pretty much the same as none of them could I get the cursor to the right or bottom of the screen all the way and it counted the center point up and to the left.  I can only assume that the system needs a tweaking.

 

I have a few of the trackball controllers, but only one is fully working.  The others sound like rubbing bricks together when the ball moves.  I would hope that they need new rollers and bearings is all that is wrong with them.  I don't know as I've not opened one though I'm guessing it is the same parts as in the Atari arcade trackballs like used in Centipede.  I've rebuilt a few of those over the years as I used to run an arcade and also refurbish machines.  If the ball is the same size I think I will replace that too.

 

More recently picked up one of the Atari Jaguar controller conversions from Cyberphreak.com and also one of digital to analog controllers being sold at Maker Matrix.

 

The Jaguar controller is pretty nice.  Though, some games it just won't work on very well.  Other than that, the cord fell out of the end of it and I had to open it up to put it back.  The plastic ties holding it in place had slipped off.  Not a big deal. Overall it's pretty nice but, not quite what I want, so I think I'm going to part ways with that.

 

The controller with the 3D printed shell and buttons is interesting.  I don't enjoy holding it at all and it isn't comfortable for my big meaty claws to use.  Also, it seems to have trouble with a few games. It very much needs a cord with the little screw in ends on it as the one I got with it gets loose while you play. I'm tempted to believe maybe the extension cord I bought with the controller is the issue with the games that don't play right more so than the controller, but without a different cable I've no way to test that and I don't like using it enough to buy a different cable.

 

That leaves me thinking about just building myself a joystick controller.  I've a lot of arcade parts still and think I could bust something pretty nice out eventually.

 

When I go looking for builds all of the ones I find are using digital controls and pots or some version on a masterplay type device, rather than just an an analog arcade joystick.  I'm curious if there is something missing and a reason why one wouldn't be used for building a joystick.  I can only assume there is something I don't know about how it all works as to why that is.

 

If anyone can throw some light on that before I go slapping something together, I would be thankful.

 

 

 

 

[doubledown]

Digital joysticks can be pretty straight forward (plus they work great for about 85%-90% of the games in the 5200 library)...here are the 2 that I built :

 

Single Stick:

 

Twin Stick:

 

I'm not a die-hard 5200 fanboy (as I didn't grow up with one), so when I looked into the games that require an analog joystick, of the few that there are, they weren't any that I was really interested in playing.  And I don't consider Kaboom!, Super Breakout, Pole Position games that should be played with a joystick, I made a paddle controller for those, and games like Missile Command should be played with the Trak-Ball.  

 

When looking at using an analog arcade stick, obviously there will be a major difference in the potentiometers used.  Most analog arcade joysticks used either 5K or 10K pots, where as the 5200 is looking for something in the  500K - 1M range.  So you could look into the circuit others offer than can adapt a PC's analog joystick for use with the 5200, and see if you can get it to work with an analog arcade stick (with it's factory pots), or see if the stick's pots can be replaced with one in the value range more appropriate for the 5200.  Additionally there is also the price of the hardware, as analog arcade sticks'a aren't usually that cheap, and above the budget of most.  Additionally most of them are large flight sticks in form factor, I think only Sega/Seimitsu made modern-ish ball-knob arcade joysticks (10K pots), and whenever I find them, people are usually asking around $100 for them used.

 

You'd just really need to look at, or think about, the short list of games that need an analog stick to determine if it's worth it to you to build one.  

[BIGHMW]

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

Digital joysticks can be pretty straight forward (plus they work great for about 85%-90% of the games in the 5200 library)...here are the 2 that I built :

 

Single Stick:

BEAUTIFUL!!! I would definitely want one of those for my 5200 rig myself, thanks for posting up yours, I am sure you would definitely get a bunch of orders for that same one if not for the twin-stick model for games like Space Dungeon and Robotron that would utilize it. How much would you take for one, my PayPal account awaits, I know I'll have to wait for my order but it should be well worth the wait considering the quality of the build of it, just looking from yours!!! ❤️ 

[doubledown]

55 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

BEAUTIFUL!!! I would definitely want one of those for my 5200 rig myself, thanks for posting up yours, I am sure you would definitely get a bunch of orders for that same one if not for the twin-stick model for games like Space Dungeon and Robotron that would utilize it. How much would you take for one, my PayPal account awaits, I know I'll have to wait for my order but it should be well worth the wait considering the quality of the build of it, just looking from yours!!! ❤️ 

PM sent.

[TheClassyGamer]

3 hours ago, doubledown said:

 Additionally most of them are large flight sticks in form factor, I think only Sega/Seimitsu made modern-ish ball-knob arcade joysticks (10K pots), and whenever I find them, people are usually asking around $100 for them used.

 

 

 Oddly enough, I have some of those laying about, the Sega sticks.  I think they came out of an old Sega Naomi Universal cabinet.  I didn't realize they are worth that much.  Maybe I would just be better off selling those rather than trying to work them into a stick and just go the other route.  However, I kind of think the pots in the sticks are not too unusual in size and shape so I may be able to find one in the right range that fits.  Aside from that the way they are made I think that it could be possible to mount the pots differently and use replacements can't be found to fit. 

 

There used to be an old arcade game.. some kind of football I think that used big analog sticks as well.  I can't remember the name.

[doubledown]

I bought one of the Sega sticks (got it on KLOV for a decent deal), and yes they were from the Naomi generation, and the pots are goofy to find replacements for (at least with my research), assuming you could find one with the right resistance value to work for the 5200.  I bought a couple different pots to try from Mouser, at 500M, just for initial testing (a higher value is actually needed), and of the 4 I got only 1 would physically fit, but the "physical resistance" required to turn the pot was noticeably higher than the original ones in the joystick, and it substantially slowed down it's return-to-center (another property to be concerned with).  So that's when after some more research into the games that actually "need" an analog joystick, I decided that the list was too short for "me" to continue looking into it, and I'm going to use the Sega stick for either a PS1/PS2 or Gamecube analog arcade stick.  

 

There definitely weren't a lot of arcade games that used analog "knob-topped" joysticks (not flight sticks), there were probably more that used the 49-way digital sticks, that some people may confuse as analog sticks, Midway's NFL Blitz used one of the 49-ways.  

[TheClassyGamer]

It is starting to sound like a lot of trial and error with minimal return if I decide to mess with those Sega sticks.  Though that's what I was hoping to find out about before I started down that road.

 

I had been hanging on to them thinking maybe they could be used for a Mame project or something, but maybe should part ways with them to finance building myself a sweet digital stick.

 

Also, those are nice looking sticks you built.  I don't know but I am guessing that you are using the little three connector micro switches and running the center pot off of their NC,  tab and using the other two pots for  min/max values in line with the NO tab?

[doubledown]

I've seen the SEGAs sell for as high as $100, usually when sold as tested/working/guaranteed.  Others will sit for sale on ebay for $100 for 6 months.  If you really want to move them fast, verify they work, sell them as such, and you should be able to sell them reasonably quickly for $50 - $75.  I'll keep mine and at some point do something with it...just to say I can probably!

 

Like I said, analog control for me it didn't seem worth further pursuit, but again I'm not a 5200 die-hard, others may disagree.

 

From the info I found online, there are a couple of different ways you can make a digital 5200 controller.  The most common is basically to use the contacts of your digital joystick to send the proper "analog values" (resistance) for Left / Centered / Right, and Up / Centered / Down.  Most of the projects I had seen online had people using fixed resistors for the Left/Right, and Up/Down, then using pots for their horizontal and vertical center adjustment.  When I built my paddle controller first, the horizontal axis was simply going to be a potentiometer, and a small (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch for Up and Down (to navigate the AtariMax menu).  I initially used 1K for up, and 500K for down, but my particular console wouldn't respond to down commands consistently.  So I increased the value and got it to work.  Then I read somewhere else, whereas people were talking about using a higher resistance for Right & Down, maybe 680K or something, so I figured just to make my controllers bullet-proof (so that they would work on any console), I simply installed pots for all 6 points.  I don't have my notes in front of me, but if memory serves, the Up and Left switches' NO contacts are wired directly to their corresponding pots, low range 0 - 10K or something.  The NC contacts of those same switches are wired to the centering pots in series with a resistor so that the "center" can't be turned lower than the low values of the Up & Left.  Then the NO contacts of the Right and Down switches are wired to their Right/Down pots in series with a resistor so that these values can't be turned lower than the values of Center...I think that's right, I'd have to double check.  All this may be overkill, and quasi-unnecessary, but both my controllers work perfectly with every game from the original library, plus some homebrew games that I've been able to test (that don't need "absolute" analog control obviously), and did so on 4 different consoles.  There are a few 3rd party games that some home-made digital joysticks/controllers have had issues with, Gyruss, Popeye, Jr. Pac-Man, and Bounty Bob Strikes Back come to mind.  Gyruss, can't go all the way around the circle, Popeye, can't go up or down stairs, Jr. Pac-Man will always be wanting to go one direction (I think right), Bounty Bob can't go left.  My wiring scheme works fine with all of these games.  But again there are multiple ways to do it, this is just what I decided upon & designed...and fortunately it works!

 

 

[TheClassyGamer]

Thank you for the info.

 

I've got some thinking to do now.