agradeneu Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chilly Willy said: No, what you're not doing is reading the thread completely. I always called for replacing JUST THE CUSTOM RISC processors with mature ones. When I said 3 ARMs would kick ass, it was following the rest of the thread in that you would be replacing the 68000, the GPU RISC, the DSP RISC, and NOTHING ELSE with ARM processors. You'd still have the blitter and object processor and all the other hardware, just not the processors Atari used. My original post left the 68000, only replacing the GPU and DSP RISC processors. Someone else pointed out that replacing the 68000 would also boost performance. That was the basis for that part of the thread, not using ONLY RISC processors and nothing else. Makes no sense whatsover. I'm out. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 hours ago, CyranoJ said: It might not slow down, but Native literally rips the screen apart by bus saturation, totally overloading the object processor to the point where it just gives up and draws black lines. And that is without audio. It isn't the gold standard people claim it is. Can you show screen shots where this is happening? I have looked and seem to completely be missing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, JagChris said: Can you show screen shots where this is happening? I have looked and seem to completely be missing it. Sure can, right after you back up the last 1000 claims you made. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Ok well then I'll tell you what. You take your game and you make it 'rip the screen apart' like Duranik does because it looks fantastic. Maybe you're watching it on some HDTV and seeing things most of us aren't. Because I have never heard anyone say they are observing what you're observing. When something looks that good ripping the screen apart is no longer a problem and instead becomes a feature. Even my programmer ex-roommate, whose systems were multi core newest if the new and was familiar with the accompanying graphics saw it once and was almighty impressed with it saying it looked good even by the standards of then 2008. Or so. Granted it was on a CRT. So maybe these new high def TV's are shining new light on old stuff. I dunno. Edited June 28, 2020 by JagChris Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 And it appears that 'ripping the screen apart' has indeed been the gold standard on the Jaguar since the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Quote You take your game and you make it 'rip the screen apart Why don't you take one of your games and do that, Chris? You seem to know exactly how things work, always will to explain exactly how things don't actually work. Quote And it appears that 'ripping the screen apart' has indeed been the gold standard on the Jaguar since the 90's. Yep, overloading the bus and having missing half lines and rips all over the image has become a feature of several Jaguar titles. The 'effect' was in multiple releases last year.... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 35 minutes ago, CyranoJ said: Why don't you take one of your games and do that, Chris? You seem to know exactly how things work, always will to explain exactly how things don't actually work Look I'm actually asking because perception is a funny thing. I haven't noticed this. No one I have ever heard from has noticed this save for you. So I am honestly asking what everyone else seems to be missing. And leave your grudge with your former protege out of this. Please show us what we all seen to be missing with Duraniks Native demo. Is there an earlier version you may have gotten ahold of? Because this is basically badmouthing Duranik and they surely have read these tirades of yours. But they haven't stepped up and said yeah sorry about the tearing or shut up CJ you wannabe you're not fit to tie our shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, CyranoJ said: Yep, overloading the bus and having missing half lines and rips all over the image has become a feature of several Jaguar titles. The 'effect' was in multiple releases last year.... Well whoever you're referring to must be doing it wrong because I haven't heard anyone, save one, bad-mouth the Native Demo visually. Have them get ahold of Roland see if he'll tuck them under his wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, CyranoJ said: overloading the bus and having missing half lines and rips all over the image has become a feature of several Jaguar titles. The 'effect' was in multiple releases last year.... If that's supposed to be another one of your distasteful cheap shots at me, I only had 1 release last year and there isn't a single point in that entire game where anything tears apart. I also have not seen the tearing in Native. I can imagine it happening though with all of those objects on screen, but the few times I played it I do not recall seeing this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 I didn't name anyone. Funny you replied though, LOL. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, CyranoJ said: I didn't name anyone. Funny you replied though, LOL. LOL yeah I have become accustomed to your cheap shots at me literally every possible chance you can get so you know it's whatever. But I'll play the game with you. Please name the several releases that had the tearing "effect" from last year. Video to back up this claim IN ADDITION to the claim that NATIVE has tearing wouldn't hurt your case either. If the tearing is as predominant as you claim it is in Native, then it shouldn't be too difficult to find. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, CyranoJ said: Yep, overloading the bus and having missing half lines and rips all over the image has become a feature of several Jaguar titles. The 'effect' was in multiple releases last year.... Also you seem to be lumping Duranik, one of the most celebrated members of our communities work in with people you seem to be inferring produce low quality work. And there seems to be no shortage of people popping up to 'like' these stipulations. Bizarre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 I'm not bad mouthing Duranik at all. Someone of his calibre and history wouldn't release anything in that state and in sure would have fixed it before releasing with such problems. It's also not final and as such was never intended for sale in this state. As for showing a video to Jeff to prove a problem, history has shown time and time again how utterly futile that is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, CyranoJ said: As for showing a video to Jeff to prove a problem, history has shown time and time again how utterly futile that is. So to clarify you are both unable and unwilling to provide video evidence to back up your claims about the tearing in Native and the "several releases" from last year? In addition you are unable to name said mystery titles? Cool story bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Just now, WAVE 1 GAMES said: So to clarify you are both unable and unwilling to provide video evidence to back up your claims about the tearing in Native and the "several releases" from last year? In addition you are unable to name said mystery titles? Cool story bro. I could name them i was sparing you the embarrassment. Carry of making yourself look like idiots 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Just now, CyranoJ said: I could name them i was sparing you the embarrassment. Carry of making yourself look like idiots If you could name them then why wouldn't you? It doesn't seem very characteristic of you to pass up the opportunity to talk trash about somebody. Especially me. Naw I'm not buying any of it. LOL. You've got nothing. If I were in your position right now of COURSE I would name the mystery games from last year. And I'm certain you have the capability of finding a 5 second clip of Native tearing or these mysterious titles from last year that will embarrass me so much. You've got nothing so resorted to the only thing you know. Name calling. Ok Lawrence I'm an idiot because you can't produce a simple video clip. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Why can't we be friends? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 35 minutes ago, eightbit said: Why can't we be friends? Because of standards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duranik Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Calm down guys. There is some tearing in this demo. I don't remember it occurring very often. It happens because of this large white "cloudy" object that passes by, this object is a so called "RMW" object if I recall the name correctly. It basically modifies the content of the pixels, in this case adds to the brightness and is slower because it takes additional reading and writing. It has nothing to do with the Jaguar main bus, the Objektprocessor has simply to much to do and can't finish his line. This was around 1996 when we were all flashed by the fancy Playstation transparency effects. We played around many many hours trying to get this RMW thing rendering but couldn't get it to work because there was only very limited information available. At one point we got it running and it looked like some sort of transparent glass instead of a random mess of pixels. I think we were so hype and pasted it everywhere into the demo. There is certainly A LOT that could be done in this demo to improve performance, first thing that comes to mind is splitting the Object Lists in some horizontal strips to avoid parsing all objects all of the time etc. 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Duranik said: Calm down guys. There is some tearing in this demo. I don't remember it occurring very often. It happens because of this large white "cloudy" object that passes by, this object is a so called "RMW" object if I recall the name correctly. It basically modifies the content of the pixels, in this case adds to the brightness and is slower because it takes additional reading and writing. It has nothing to do with the Jaguar main bus, the Objektprocessor has simply to much to do and can't finish his line. Thank you for clearing that up. Sturmwind is freaking amazing, btw /tips hat. Quote RMW: At one point we got it running and it looked like some sort of transparent glass instead of a random mess of pixels. My nickname for RMW mode is 'the purple generator' - took forever to get it working correctly in Rebooteroids. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 15 hours ago, eightbit said: Why can't we be friends? People have to stop being stupid before that can occur. This is the Jaguar forum though.. Good luck on that ever happening. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefMan Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 6:50 PM, Tommywilley84 said: In your opinion? I feel like had Alien vs Predator and Tempest 2000 been two titles available at the time of launch along with having the promised third party support that Atari could have at least been able to put up a better fight Those games actually being available on store shelves in 95 might of helped. Babbages only carried the new stuff so the best games weren’t even available to me new when I picked up my Jag. Had to hit up Game Dude to get these games used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripled79 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 On 6/27/2020 at 8:29 AM, CyranoJ said: It does.... until half the screen tears itself apart I don't see any "tearing" on my screen... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, tripled79 said: I don't see any "tearing" on my screen... Wow. The author of the game admits it does it, but you guys just want to keep arguing. Well, I guess you know more than Duranik. I bow down to your knowledge. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill.T Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 What could have saved the Jag? sony and nintendo not falling out and the snes PlayStation came to market and the Sony PlayStation never happens Sega giving up on hardware and becoming a software publisher after the failure of the 32x and the saturn debuts at $500...(but the dreamcast was so good) Jaguar launches as a cart+cd based console with improved/fixed internals with better development tools and 3rd party support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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