Marek Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) Guys, I've just ordered 10 sets of Nuc, Pal burst and SIO2DSub boards. I'll let you know, once they are here (it will take ab. 2 weeks, perhaps). Then we will see, what's the best way to distribute it to anyone interested. The cost will be around 12eur per set (+shipping). We can also do the barter exchange (I don't have any original chips to build it). Edited October 26, 2021 by Marek 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) ...double post... Edited October 26, 2021 by Marek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 46 minutes ago, Marek said: Guys, I've just ordered 10 sets of Nuc, Pal burst and SIO2DSub boards. I'll let you know, once they are here (it will take ab. 2 weeks, perhaps). Then we will see, what's the best way to distribute it to anyone interested. The cost will be around 12eur per set (+shipping). We can also do the barter exchange (I don't have any original chips to build it). No fujinet boards? Are you waiting for the fujinet+cart boards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mr Robot said: No fujinet boards? Are you waiting for the fujinet+cart boards? Yeah, I did not order those initially. I did not plan building it at this moment (limited time for all the hobbies), but ... I've just added them to the order. In total, the full set of boards might be 15-16 eur or so (due to the bigger size of the Fujinet boards the price was higher than others). My intention is not to make business but just to get the costs back and also to have some boards for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LarryL Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, Marek said: Yeah, I did not order those initially. I did not plan building it at this moment (limited time for all the hobbies), but ... I've just added them to the order. In total, the full set of boards might be 15-16 eur or so (due to the bigger size of the Fujinet boards the price was higher than others). My intention is not to make business but just to get the costs back and also to have some boards for myself. Excellent! i would be in for one complete set of boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I'll let you know here, once they arrive. As said earlier - I would be more than happy to also get some original chips instead of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LarryL Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 18 minutes ago, Marek said: I'll let you know here, once they arrive. As said earlier - I would be more than happy to also get some original chips instead of money. PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZuluGula Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr Robot said: No fujinet boards? Are you waiting for the fujinet+cart boards? I'm waiting for cartridge port. For me, Atari without one is not an Atari, unless there's something about NUC that makes it obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 26, 2021 Author Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, ZuluGula said: I'm waiting for cartridge port. For me, Atari without one is not an Atari, unless there's something about NUC that makes it obsolete. Well it really comes down to how you use your Atari, and specifically what purpose you have in mind for the 576NUC+. Personally once I started using SD and CF card devices on my Atari computers, I find that I rarely ever need to use a cartridge anymore. This would be especially true for someone that mainly plays games, since virtually every known game for the Atari can be gotten as either an XEX or an ATR which work very well from a solid state disk. The focus of this project was to create a very compact portable device that along with the FujiNet/SD daughter board really gives you a very good alternative to a cart based system. It doesn't make carts obsolete, but then again if this isn't your only Atari computer, those carts can be used on your stock Atari computer instead, and then simply think of this as your grab and go version. Edited October 26, 2021 by mytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 22 hours ago, mytek said: The focus of this project was to create a very compact portable device that along with the FujiNet/SD daughter board really gives you a very good alternative to a cart based system. It doesn't make carts obsolete, but then again if this isn't your only Atari computer, those carts can be used on your stock Atari computer instead, and then simply think of this as your grab and go version. To expand upon this statement I would like to add that for those who wish to use their multi-carts (SIDEx, AVG, Ultimate, UNO, AtariMAX, ect.), then yes Mr Robot's FujiNet/Cart NUC daughter board will be absolutely essential, and certainly a great addition to the 576NUC+ system. In fact this is the only way you can play the very popular AtariBlast! game due to only having 576K of memory in the NUC. However unless you are one of those individuals, the extra cost might not be warranted for your needs, so it's worth mulling this over before you reach for your wallet. 23 hours ago, ZuluGula said: I'm waiting for cartridge port. For me, Atari without one is not an Atari... I'll have to admit this made me a bit sad when I read it. So does that mean that all the Atari systems that followed the 800 were also not an Atari because they lacked the Right Cart slot and the Joystick Ports 3 and 4 ? In my mind I don't think so, because what makes an Atari 'an Atari' comes down to 4 chips working in concert (Sally (or 6502), Pokey, Antic, GTIA) and the OS. The cart slot is simply one of several ways to get programs into the Atari. Or in other words, It is a means to an end, but not an end in itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 44 minutes ago, mytek said: I'll have to admit this made me a bit sad when I read it. So does that mean that all the Atari systems that followed the 800 were also not an Atari because they lacked the Right Cart slot and the Joystick Ports 3 and 4 ? In my mind I don't think so, because what makes an Atari 'an Atari' comes down to 4 chips working in concert (Sally (or 6502), Pokey, Antic, GTIA) and the OS. The cart slot is simply one of several ways to get programs into the Atari. Or in other words, It is a means to an end, but not an end in itself. We had this discussion very early on in the NUC timeline when it was just you and I and you were laying out the boards. I was very keen on there being a cartridge port and only relented when you compromised and added the internal SIO so that an sdrive daughterboard could be installed internally. It wasn't until you added in a header for the final pin on the cart port and laid down that challenge that the idea of making a cart version resurfaced, by then the back-and-forth over sdrive vs fujinet was well and truly won by fujinet. I have to confess to preferring the Cart version. I love the size of the fujinet version but the experience of loading software from an AVGCART is so much better than the fujinet (or the sdrive) that I'm happy to live with the extra height. A version with an internal cart would have been the best option for me which is why I argued for it at the start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Bottom line, it's flexible... pick your pleasure! You've filled some needs and covered some wants. Win Win for the NUCC warriors. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 This also reminds me of BITD when I bought an MG sports car. Boy was that ever a big compromise compared to my friends larger more full featured American made vehicles. Initially they thought I was nuts, but I don't think I ever had so much fun driving something like that on the back roads with the top down, feeling the wind in my hair. Had some great memories from those days. It all comes down to what meets your needs, with no one size fits all This isn't mine, but it's pretty representative to what it looked like back when I purchased it in the early 70's. Same color and trim after it got repainted, although mine had wire spoke wheels with knock-off hubs (had to keep a lead hammer in the trunk for tire changes). 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peruchi Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, mytek said: This also reminds me of BITD when I bought an MG sports car. Boy was that ever a big compromise compared to my friends larger more full featured American made vehicles. Initially they thought I was nuts, but I don't think I ever had so much fun driving something like that on the back roads with the top down, feeling the wind in my hair. Had some great memories from those days. It all comes down to what meets your needs, with no one size fits all This isn't mine, but it's pretty representative to what it looked like back when I purchased it in the early 70's. Same color and trim after it got repainted, although mine had wire spoke wheels with knock-off hubs (had to keep a lead hammer in the trunk for tire changes). I can relate to that example. I have an old LADA-VAZ that's receiving an ongoing restoration for the last three years! Everybody calls me crazy! And I also have a 576NUC+ ? Thank you @mytek for all your contribution to the Atari 8-bit scene! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 56 minutes ago, mytek said: This also reminds me of BITD when I bought an MG sports car. Boy was that ever a big compromise compared to my friends larger more full featured American made vehicles. Totally get it. My wife drives a mini (Cooper S) , had to have it didn't care how much it cost, loves it so much that now it's in need of being replaced she doesn't want to part with it. The four figure repair bills are starting to add up as all the major parts are wearing out, you have to drop the engine out of the thing to even change a spark plug (it seems), because the engine is mounted sideways at a 45' angle and there is no room around it (got to wedge the engine in that tiny bay somehow!) and no one except a dealer will touch it for anything except the simplest repairs. The original NUC was going to be Macintosh shaped and have a built in screen! It evolved into something much better. The SIO version really does tick all the boxes for most people, it's an incredible feat of engineering and I love both of mine. I'm glad it's possible to add a cart port to it though, so thank you for adding all the required headers to make it possible! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZuluGula Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 My first Atari didn't have Right cartridge slot and only 2 joystick ports, it has 64kB/128kB memory, but it can still run most of the new games when I use cartridge. It might not be true if I try load them from SIO device. If we are comparing it to cars, Atari with cartridge is like Miata with manual transmission. Simple, effective and fast. I had Miatas in the past. When I was doing AutoX, I could easily beat drivers in cars that had more power and complicated driveline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 45 minutes ago, Mr Robot said: I'm glad it's possible to add a cart port to it though, so thank you for adding all the required headers to make it possible! Well if I had planned that better, either a smaller footprint cart header could have been implemented, only requiring conversion to the edge card connector -or- maybe there was a way to bring all the extra signals not present on the piggybacked Antic to a single header close to it. This would have made your job much easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just a heads up for those buying a fully assembled 576NUC+ from TBA. Because the TKII-NUC firmware is still in flux, I would highly recommend purchasing a JOY2PIC board to do updates as they come along. A fully assembled and tested version of the JOY2PIC can be purchased from The Brewing Academy. Or if you wish to build your own, TBA also has a DIY kit. The JOY2PIC is by far the easiest method of re-flashing the embedded PIC chip on the NUC. Basically it's as easy as firing up a separate Atari 8-bit computer (Flasher) that has the means to load in an ATR file (SIO2PC, SDrive, FujiNet, ect.). Plug the JOY2PIC into the Flasher's joystick port1 Attach a cable between the ICSP output on the JOY2PIC and the NUC's TKPGM header (line up pin-1 VPP on both ends) Switch on the Flasher's power (leave power disconnected on the NUC) After the autoloading PIC ATR has booted enter TKNUCVxx.com and hit Return When prompted press START "PIC Successfully Programmed" means you are done 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildstar87 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Mytek, had a question on the s-video/composite circuit for the 576NUC, if I wanted to implement this on a standard XL, other than the Vgate and Chroma switch, is everything else just on the output on the HCT08, and Csync? Can I just take the output from the 4050, or would putting the HCT08 be better instead? I just read through the entire thread, and saw the notes about the Csync buffer being needed to not kill GTIAs, glad I saw that. I was going to experiment first with this on my 1088XEL, replacing UAV with the NUC circuit. I would assume I should put the Csync buffer in, including the diode, res, etc.. Basically what I've outlined in red is what I think consisting of this circuit. Oops, cut out the buffer section, but the rest is there. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I know there were some changes that you did with the color adjustment, but wasn't sure if that would make a huge difference in image quality. I can't find the post where you suggested this circuit as an alternative to other solutions on the market, I seem to remember a phrase, "toss this into the ring" or something to that effect. Thought there might be some more information there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, wildstar87 said: Mytek, had a question on the s-video/composite circuit for the 576NUC, if I wanted to implement this on a standard XL, other than the Vgate and Chroma switch, is everything else just on the output on the HCT08, and Csync? Can I just take the output from the 4050, or would putting the HCT08 be better instead? You need a chip with a high drive capability due to the low impedance resistor DAC being used. The HCT08 is sufficient, but I believe a MC14503BCP Non-Inverting HEX Buffer would be an even better solution, since it can drive 25 ma on each output. The CD4050 wouldn't cut it, having probably no more than 5 ma of drive current. The reason I went with the low impedance resistor DAC, was for two reasons. 1) it minimizes noise pick-up from other clocking signals in the vicinity, and 2) it simplifies the circuit by not requiring a driver transistor following the DAC. In the 576NUC+ design I was initially having trouble with keeping noise out of the video stream because of the close proximity of other clocked signals, so this move really paid off. You'll have a couple of extra buffers because of the HEX package, so I would suggest using one of those to buffer the CSYNC output of the GTIA. 1 hour ago, wildstar87 said: I know there were some changes that you did with the color adjustment, but wasn't sure if that would make a huge difference in image quality. The main change was to provide a precision regulated 10V supply to feed the color trim pot. This eliminates color changes that normally occur when PSUs with slightly different voltage outputs are swapped out. It also greatly reduces color shifting as the computer warms up. Not completely, but it's pretty minimal with this regulation. 1 hour ago, wildstar87 said: I can't find the post where you suggested this circuit as an alternative to other solutions on the market, I seem to remember a phrase, "toss this into the ring" or something to that effect. Thought there might be some more information there. Yeah I recall making that statement, but i believe I was just letting someone know that there are other ways to produce a UAV quality video output, and that it was in the public domain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildstar87 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Was what I circled (with the exclusion of the Csync buffer) what would be considered the whole video circuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, wildstar87 said: Was what I circled (with the exclusion of the Csync buffer) what would be considered the whole video circuit? I'll do you one better and give you a fixed up schematic for the 576NUC+ video section without VGATE involved, and using some high current buffers to drive the DAC circuit. Most likely the previous part number I gave you would be the way to go for these buffers, but who knows there might be something even better, especially if you go SMD. EDIT: keep in ind that the FMS6400 is an obsolete part, so that will have to purchased off of eBay or similar. Edited November 12, 2021 by mytek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildstar87 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 On 11/12/2021 at 1:58 PM, mytek said: I'll do you one better and give you a fixed up schematic for the 576NUC+ video section without VGATE involved, and using some high current buffers to drive the DAC circuit. Most likely the previous part number I gave you would be the way to go for these buffers, but who knows there might be something even better, especially if you go SMD. EDIT: keep in ind that the FMS6400 is an obsolete part, so that will have to purchased off of eBay or similar. Thanks much Mytek!! I actually have a couple of FMS6400 ICs laying around here somewhere, they were actually for the old Longhorn Engineer video circuit, which is another reason I was interested in this. On another note, I'm going to be using a VGA to BNC cable as the basis for an S-Video/Composite cable. The individual leads are all shielded, but I wasn't sure about grounding. I know you have said that it is the cross-talk between Luma and Chroma that cause a lot of the problems. Would this still happen if the individual shields were attached to a common ground point? I know it is common to ground the shield at one, but not the other, however I also build cables for my job in an aviation electronics company for our engineering lab. We definitely have cables that have the shield tied to backshell at both ends. So it seems that there are reasons for both, so since I figured you probably know best about this, how should the cable be built? All shields tied at the DIN end to ground, and leave them open at RCA end, or vice versa, or some other configuration? I also have seen mention of a diode, or resistor in line, on one of the S-video lines, any merit to that? Thanks again for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Guys, Just as promised - here's an update on my order of NUC, Fujinet, PALBurst and SIO boards: Fujinet, PAL and SIO have arrived and looking really great. Still waiting for the NUC boards (they should be here during coming week). I will have 8 sets of boards still available (ordered 10, but 2 are gone already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ataridoremi4 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Hallo, ich wäre auch mit einem Platinen Set dabei. Wenn es noch geht, danke. Gruß Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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