Crypt of the Undead atx images wanted

[cwilbar]

My original of Crypt of the Undead has developed an issue at least with Side A.  Does anyone have an atx or scp image taken from a working original ?  Hoping I can rewrite the disk.

 

Only one I've located so far indicates it was not from an original (I'm guessing source was from a happy/archiver/etc copy).

 

Thanks,

 

-- Curt

 

[Mclaneinc]

There's only one ATX out there that was dumped by Zarx and it does not appear to work (well I've tried everything).

 

There's plenty of working atr versions but obviously they are cracked..

 

Paul.

[ijor]

15 hours ago, cwilbar said:

My original of Crypt of the Undead has developed an issue at least with Side A.  Does anyone have an atx or scp image taken from a working original ?  Hoping I can rewrite the disk.

 

It is a rare title, if you happen to have an original and a SCP setup, please contribute a dump. Even if it is not 100%, we might be able to recover the data.

 

Having said that, some of us don't like too much people rewriting original disks. But of course, it is your disk and ultimately you make the decision.

Edited June 23, 2020 by ijor

[cwilbar]

I normally would not want to rewrite an original. 

I've been thinking and I think what I might do to fix it is to find out which sector is now bad, and restore just that sector (I can do that with my Chip/Archiver).  I think that is better than rewriting the entire disk.

I'm guessing the power was interrupted to the disk drive while it was inside.  I lost a couple of diskettes way back in the day forgetting to eject the drive and turning the 810 off.  Thankfully none of those were original games.

 

I do have a .scp taken via splice with value 4.

 

[+Allan]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Crypt-Of-The-Undead-Epyx-Atari-400-800-Games/283923880154?hash=item421b2e98da:g:oLAAAOSwR3le8XLl

 

Already at $100.

[Mclaneinc]

Just a shame the games rarely ever seem to be tested, does everyone only have software and no hardware?

 

Traders I guess...

[+DjayBee]

3 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

There's only one ATX out there that was dumped by Zarx

Please post it or PM.

 

56 minutes ago, cwilbar said:

I do have a .scp taken via splice with value 4.

Please post it or PM.

 

I'll try to "merge" them into a working image.

[Mclaneinc]

There you go...

Crypt of the Undead (Side A).atx

 

PS. Just noted its in a non original named folder (before I just searched for the name, didn't show the directory.)

Edited June 23, 2020 by Mclaneinc

[cwilbar]

2 hours ago, Allan said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Crypt-Of-The-Undead-Epyx-Atari-400-800-Games/283923880154?hash=item421b2e98da:g:oLAAAOSwR3le8XLl

 

Already at $100.

OMG !

 

Wish I had the box/etc.  I don't even think I have the instructions for this (I'll have to check).

 

Looks like side 1 may be in worse shape than I feared.  I presumed maybe one bad sector in the boot (due to BOOT ERROR), but the a8rawconv output shows a lot of uncleanliness on side 1.  side 2 reads perfect.

 

I even tried another drive on the supercard pro.... as the last one I was using I've found seems to have gone to crap.  I archived my entire collection over 4 folders.... and the last folder none of the resulting scp images were good.  And I'm finding some of the first folder's scp images are no good as well.  So, as I go through each with an atx from the scp with Altirra I'm foldering the bad and suspect ones and will re-rip them.  If they re-rip ok.... I may re-rip the entire collection.  I had no idea my drive was giving me any issues.  (and I only have that failing drive and 2 other rives that will read the flippy side of a disk w/o any modifications.

 

I've provided a zip of the scp images to @DjayBee for examination.  We'll see what he finds.

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

when you say side 1 or a that normally means the bottom side of the disk facing away from the label... did you attempt to clean the disk using the non harmful method described in thread on AA and elsewhere, and a clean dry drive head? Normally it gives you the best shot at getting a good image....

[+DjayBee]

I am no dumper myself, but from what I have read, clean drive heads have highest priority. Some people clean the head after every (other) disk.

Since you already tried to dump the disk more than once I am unsure, if another attempt will deliver more useable data.

 

First impressions of the dumps:

• Given the 1982 release I highly doubt that the disk has protection. The earliest protected Epyx-disks I have come up so far are from 1983.
• cwilbar's image is badly damaged until track 10 and error free from 21-39.
• Zarxx' image seems good but I have no idea where the disk's format comes from. Every track has 19 or 20 sectors and the interleave is very strange. I guess booting fails because of these surplus sectors which get read instead of the needed ones.
• A graphical representation of the differences between both images:
  White areas contain identical data and roughly the first half of cwilbar's dump is bad.
  This leads to the conclusion that both disks are from the same version of the game. This is good because it makes a repaired dump more probable.
• Atarimania's dump has the files in different on-disk locations and therefore is of no direct help.

 

Final question:

How did you dump side B of the disk using SCP?

Common understanding is that this is not possible unless the disk has two index holes (which is less than uncommon).

Edited June 23, 2020 by DjayBee

[cwilbar]

I have not tried cleaning the media.  The media looks as good on side1 (opposite the label) as on side2.

 

The heads of the drive have been cleaned, and I am able to image other diskettes w/o issue so they have not dirtied up (yet).

 

Both sides were dumped with splice method set to 4.

 

Some drive will dump B sides w/o a second index hole.  I have 3 drives that will do this.  One has gone flaky and has been taken out of service.  The flaky one and one other are Toshiba.  I forget the model of the one I'm using currently.

 

I don't know if drive model will read any differently (doubt it), but I can try taking some more dumps with other drives (I have plenty of drives that can dump the A side).  Not sure this will help though.

 

[ijor]

4 hours ago, DjayBee said:

Zarxx' image seems good but I have no idea where the disk's format comes from. Every track has 19 or 20 sectors and the interleave is very strange. I guess booting fails because of these surplus sectors which get read instead of the needed ones.

 

Do we have a SCP dump of Zarxx's disk, or only ATX?

 

Quote

Final question:

How did you dump side B of the disk using SCP?

Common understanding is that this is not possible unless the disk has two index holes (which is less than uncommon).

 

Most DD 40 tracks drives can read disks without the index hole. A good example is the original Mitsumi mechanism on the XF551 that can access flippies. But the software has to support dumping without index hole. The SCP does but the Kryoflux doesn't, or at least it didn't the last time I checked. That's an important plus for the SCP, although on the other hand, the Kryoflux can read both sides in one pass on a modified drive.

 

[ijor]

43 minutes ago, cwilbar said:

Both sides were dumped with splice method set to 4.

This is not very recommended. You can't help it for the back. But the front side it's better to dump using the index hole. It is more accurate and we don't loose the skew information that might be valuable.

 

Quote

don't know if drive model will read any differently (doubt it), but I can try taking some more dumps with other drives (I have plenty of drives that can dump the A side).  Not sure this will help though.

 

A different dump on a different drive might be useful. But if all those tracks are heavily damaged, probably it won't be much better. Anyway, on cases like this it might still be worth to try.

 

[+gnusto]

I have this title. I think even in a sealed box (I only have so many sealed, so it kind of sticks out). I will go searching the collection if we need it, sounds like it needs to be in the preservation society!

[cwilbar]

I thought I read somewhere that splice was preferred, as since disks on the Atari and C64 didn't use the index hole to start with that not all disks were aligned with the index hole to start (though I suspect most commercial titles probably are since they would have been done on diskette duplicators ???)

 

Don't know what could have happened to this diskette....  stray magnetic fields wouldn't make sense, as they'd have scrambled side2 as well.  Maybe a disk drive went 'nuts' ?

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

dirt can damage one side and not the other, so can an inadvertent drive access issue...

[cwilbar]

Y, dirt could.  I'd think that damage would be more noticable.  The only thing I notice is what looks like Epyx's budget (cheaper media) and normal use/aging.  I'll look again as I'm going by memory.

 

The only other thing I can think of is if a film developed in an area on side 1 (i.e. smoke/etc) if the disk was left with side 1 (bottom) facing up for extended periods of time ???

 

I'll check for any evidence of that and contemplate a careful cleaning and try another rip.

 

 

[cwilbar]

12 hours ago, ijor said:

This is not very recommended. You can't help it for the back. But the front side it's better to dump using the index hole. It is more accurate and we don't loose the skew information that might be valuable.

 

 

A different dump on a different drive might be useful. But if all those tracks are heavily damaged, probably it won't be much better. Anyway, on cases like this it might still be worth to try.

 

I used splice due to issues with index, as well as this post/thread in the forums:

 

 

And backsides can only be done with splice (at least not without punching a flippy index hole).

 

 

[cwilbar]

12 hours ago, ijor said:

 

Do we have a SCP dump of Zarxx's disk, or only ATX?

 

 

Most DD 40 tracks drives can read disks without the index hole. A good example is the original Mitsumi mechanism on the XF551 that can access flippies. But the software has to support dumping without index hole. The SCP does but the Kryoflux doesn't, or at least it didn't the last time I checked. That's an important plus for the SCP, although on the other hand, the Kryoflux can read both sides in one pass on a modified drive.

 

If this is true, then my luck (the Murphy variety ? ) puts most of my half height 5.25 in the unusual category.  Any attempts to read the back side result in a 'blank' rip (they don't fail to rip, they just fail to have any content).

 

I did read that the PC only uses the index hole for formatting.  I don't know if that ever changed in the life of the PC, or if it only applies to pre-AT class systems.  Which is consistent with your claim.

 

However, I can't recall where I read that some drives won't send data until they've seen the index hole some # of times first.  My drives seem to confirm that.  Either that or it is something more complicated between drive and controller in a PC that effects which drives can/can't read a flippy.

 

For reference, the drives I have that will read the flippy side (all 48tpi drives, I have not gone through my 1.2M drives yet):

 

TEAC FD-54B-02-U

Toshiba FDD 5445A0N

Toshiba FDD 6471L0K

 

others including TEAC 55VB, an Alps drive, I think a Mitsubishi (don't have model # handy), and a couple of others would not read the backside.

 

I did not test any of my 5.25" full height drives, as they are all belt drive, and I want to do my imaging with direct drive for more stable RPMs (not that it likely matters at all as long as the belt driven drive is healthy ? ).

 

I do have one Panasonic half height I have not tested yet (it is in my Tandy 386SX DOS 'utility' system (Eprom burners, disk utilities, etc)).  I do have to try that one some time to read flippies too.

 

-- Curt

 

[cwilbar]

On 6/23/2020 at 9:25 AM, Allan said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Crypt-Of-The-Undead-Epyx-Atari-400-800-Games/283923880154?hash=item421b2e98da:g:oLAAAOSwR3le8XLl

 

Already at $100.

Now at $375.00 !!!  WTF !?

 

Seller has other games listed too.... nothing coming close to this price (closest is an atari trackball at $101 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Trak-ball-Controller/283922376957) and a 130XE.

A number of people want this title it would seem....  I think the seller will be pleasantly surprised by what that sells for.  Wonder what it would sell for tested and working ? !

 

I know it is complete.... but wow.... I don't think I've ever seen an Atari title sell for that kind of money.

 

Anyone following this thread care to admit to bidding this up ? ?

 

-- Curt

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by cwilbar

[+DjayBee]

13 hours ago, ijor said:

Do we have a SCP dump of Zarxx's disk, or only ATX?

I searched and found it. It is part of "collection 3".

If you want the file, tell me where to drop it. It is 17 MB.

 

a8rawconv 0.92 gives this output:

 

Reading SuperCard Pro image: Crypt of the Undead (Side A)_A8.scp
Writing ATX file: Crypt of the Undead (Side A)_A8.scp.atx
WARNING: Track  0, sector  7: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  1, sector  3: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  2, sector  3: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  3, sector  3: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  4, sector  3: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  5, sector 14: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  5, sector  3: 1 phantom sector found.
WARNING: Track  6, sector 14: 1 phantom sector found.

... and so on ...

[Mclaneinc]

Yes, sorry was about to say where it was...

 

That Atx boots, gets to a black screen with writing and then graphics mode 9 kicks in and it crashes...It also seems the spot where there's a protection check judging by the sound of a working cracked version..

 

Sector 363

[mimo]

2 hours ago, cwilbar said:

Now at $375.00 !!!  WTF !?

 

Seller has other games listed too.... nothing coming close to this price (closest is an atari trackball at $101 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Trak-ball-Controller/283922376957) and a 130XE.

A number of people want this title it would seem....  I think the seller will be pleasantly surprised by what that sells for.  Wonder what it would sell for tested and working ? !

 

I know it is complete.... but wow.... I don't think I've ever seen an Atari title sell for that kind of money.

 

Anyone following this thread care to admit to bidding this up ? ?

 

-- Curt

 

Probably worth less to some collectors if it's been opened and tested. 

[cwilbar]

15 hours ago, ijor said:

 

Do we have a SCP dump of Zarxx's disk, or only ATX?

 

 

Most DD 40 tracks drives can read disks without the index hole. A good example is the original Mitsumi mechanism on the XF551 that can access flippies. But the software has to support dumping without index hole. The SCP does but the Kryoflux doesn't, or at least it didn't the last time I checked. That's an important plus for the SCP, although on the other hand, the Kryoflux can read both sides in one pass on a modified drive.

 

I looked, and there are .scp images....

 

I used a8rawconv to make an .atx... I think it is identical to the atx from Zarxx.  I can not get this to boot in Altirra (neither Zarxx atx or the atx I made from Zarxx scp).

 

Crypt of the Undead (Side A)_A8.scp