Fishin' Frenzy COJAG Conversion

[+CyranoJ]

7 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Well, despite this fact, he insisted on "that no coder could do better than him".  I think I understood the message very well. 

He likes saying things like that... oblivious to the fact that he's using a compiled language and a full API library.

Which, of course, isn't an issue.  Unless you think things can't be done in a more optimised or direct to the h/w way.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

35 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Well, despite this fact, he insisted on "that no coder could do better than him".  I think I understood the message very well. 

Wtf are you talking about? I never said anything of the sort. You are the one talking down to people about their little game and throwing words around like "I'm sorry but you are asking for it" like really dude? Asking for what? Your arrogance? No I didn't ask for that. Like grfoh you can't be serious right now.

 

30 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

He likes saying things like that... oblivious to the fact that he's using a compiled language and a full API library

except I didn't say anything like that at all.

 

Also I might add that it doesn't fucking matter if I'm using RB+ or if I coded the game in assembly. Large 352 X 224 16 bit moving images are going to take a harder hit on the bus than 4 bit or 8 bit. So why even use them if it's not necessary?  If you say "no Jeff, there is no significant difference" then you are just a liar.

[+Sauron]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

Well, despite this fact, he insisted on "that no coder could do better than him".  I think I understood the message very well. 

I didn't see him say anything of the sort, so no, I don't think you understood the message at all. 

 

 

[joeatari1]

At any rate Jeff, please carry on with this.  I am excited to see what you can do and what can become of this game.  The Jag needs something like this and you have a great base started.  I have a couple of your other games and enjoy them but only for short periods of time as they have a high difficulty level even just starting out.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

35 minutes ago, joeatari1 said:

At any rate Jeff, please carry on with this.  I am excited to see what you can do and what can become of this game.  The Jag needs something like this and you have a great base started.  I have a couple of your other games and enjoy them but only for short periods of time as they have a high difficulty level even just starting out.

I wasn't aware you had any of my games. If I may ask which ones?

[joeatari1]

4 minutes ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

I wasn't aware you had any of my games. If I may ask which ones?

Frogz and Fast Food.  I purchased them second hand from another AA member that was cleaning house of their Jag stuff.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

9 minutes ago, joeatari1 said:

Frogz and Fast Food.  I purchased them second hand from another AA member that was cleaning house of their Jag stuff.

Wow those games seem like so long ago. Doesn't feel like it but it's only been 3 years. I think 2020 had been kind of a timeslip. With everything going on this year it seems like the year from hell and will never end. Thats part of the reason I started Fishin' Frenzy. For some reason working on this game is blissful. This particular game takes me away from it all. I think it's just looking at the little fishies that gets me to be honest.

 

Anyway yeah I'm going to continue working on this one. It's pretty straight forward as far as a straight conversion goes. The only big difference here should be the last few levels of the game which I mentioned before in the arcade version those last levels are unfinished and sloppy. So will be a custom job here.

 

I'm also entertaining the idea of rotary controls here and I'm hoping to get help from another AA member on this.

 

The thought of mouse controls for this game makes me cringe. I don't want to do that here, I don't think it would be a good fit. Not for this game anyway.

Edited August 22, 2020 by WAVE 1 GAMES

[joeatari1]

A rotary control option would be great on this game as the controls are fairly simplistic.  If possible, try to include a sensitivity adjustment for it as some people might like it faster or slower than others.  Love the fishies!

[agradeneu]

On 8/21/2020 at 2:54 PM, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

I didn't say anything was hard.

I stated verifiable facts in a very specific scenerio.

Has nothing to do with skill level.

That many moving 16 bit color objects on screen combined with 2 352 pixel wide 16 bit moving 16 bit background/foreground layers and sound and music taxes the system hard. It has a negative impact on performance no matter who the coder is.

This is not an assumption or me lacking some magic skill. This is the truth

Sauron: Read again. 

 

Just to put into perspective what he claims:

 

- an 352 pixel wide object is just 1 screen overscan, he does not tell you the pixel heights for the 2, for some reason. But the dimension is just one screen, one!

 

- he can't scroll 2x one screen wide objects, with 16 sprites,  without getting performance hits, because it "taxes the shit out of the system". Well.

 

- he claims that this had nothing  to  do with (his) skill,  that this was the "truth" and not debatable. See above.

 

 

Here are my findings, real things that run on real hardware:

 

- you can parallax scroll an 512x512 object with a background, all in 16 bit, plus 16 bit sprites, at  60 FPS.

 

- One 352x240 pixel backdrop is roughly 0,128 MB data size. That means 2 MB is quite some space for 16 bit graphics. It is clear you need several screen wide layers to hit the limit. (None of that I see in Wave ONE Games.)

 

- "Native" scrolls layered 16 bit backdrops, several screens wide, plus a level layer, plus 100+ sprites, plus foreground objects, at 60 FPS. 

 The graphics are 16 bit, I got that info from the dev himself. All graphics run within 1 MB RAM. With a proper 4MB or 6MB ROM, music should be no problem, technically.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

3 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Sauron: Read again. 

yeah I still don't get how this is me bragging or saying I am the best coder? I am talking about a specific scenario here that I am not even doing. My comment is focused on the actual technical aspect at hand in this specific scenario. (Not who the coder is)  and it does have a negative impact on the performance, do you believe this specific scenario has zero impact on performance? REALLY?  I think you are either (A) misunderstanding where I am coming from or (B) intentionally taking my comment out of context

 

I would like to believe it is (A)

[agradeneu]

4 hours ago, Sauron said:

I didn't see him say anything of the sort, so no, I don't think you understood the message at all. 

 

 

In case you did not read this: 

 

 

I stated verifiable facts in a very specific scenerio.

Has nothing to do with skill level.

That many moving 16 bit color objects on screen combined with 2 352 pixel wide 16 bit moving 16 bit background/foreground layers and sound and music taxes the system hard. It has a negative impact on performance no matter who the coder is.

This is not an assumption or me lacking some magic skill. This is the truth

[agradeneu]

1 hour ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

yeah I still don't get how this is me bragging or saying I am the best coder? I am talking about a specific scenario here that I am not even doing. My comment is focused on the actual technical aspect at hand in this specific scenario. (Not who the coder is)  and it does have a negative impact on the performance, do you believe this specific scenario has zero impact on performance? REALLY?  I think you are either (A) misunderstanding where I am coming from or (B) intentionally taking my comment out of context

 

I would like to believe it is (A)

I hope you know that coding the Jaguar means Assembly language. It was designed for that. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by agradeneu

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

It is clear you need several screen wide layers to hit the limit. (None of that I see in Wave ONE Games.)

 

- "Native" scrolls layered 16 bit backdrops, several screens wide, plus a level layer, plus 100+ sprites, plus foreground objects, at 60 FPS. 

 The graphics are 16 bit, I got that info from the dev himself. All graphics run within 1 MB RAM.

No it's not several screenwide layers before you start to notice performance hits when you are talking about 16 bit you only need 2 or 3 combined with a bunch of 16 bit sprites before you notice performance lag.

 

And I did say 352 X 224 16 bit.

 

Native also does all of what you said with graphics TEARING. This is a hit on performance, the very thing we don't want and Native doesn't even have sound.

 

Even if you know a way of getting it to do those things without performance hits (ie graphics tearing) these large 16 bit graphics DO tax the bus, that is the fact that I was stating.

 

You are also completely missing the fact that I am using RB+ and not GPU specific assembly code.

 

This entire argument is completely pointless as I am not making the game with large 16 bit backgrounds. This fixation you have with judging my skill level and what I am capable of and what I am not capable of is ridiculous.

 

So let me save you some trouble. Can I write GPU specific code to make some other game use large screenwide 16 bit images scroll in conjunction with more than 16 other 16 bit objects and also have music and sound without graphics tearing or lag? At the moment no I can not. And for this project there is no reason to because there is another way. Can other people do this? Of course they can.

 

There is nothing wrong with the direction that I am taking with the development of Fishin' Frenzy. There is something wrong with you having a snarky attitude and trying to school me about something I am not even doing. This guy cubanismo said I could conserve on memory by doing the things he suggested, I agreed with him because these are things I was already doing anyway. You come in with all of this other extra stuff. For what purpose? I asked you before, what is it that you are trying to accomplish here? Throw my thread off track? Seems that way. Your remarks from the very beginning were demeaning and condescending. By reading what you wrote one could come to the conclusion that you think very little of this project, as if it were child like in nature. If that is the case then why are you still so invested in arguing with me?

Edited August 22, 2020 by WAVE 1 GAMES

[+CyranoJ]

8 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

Three pages later and we still don't know what you think "32 Color spliced gfx mode" is supposed to mean.

4 pages.

[agradeneu]

41 minutes ago, WAVE 1 GAMES said:

No it's not several screenwide layers before you start to notice performance hits when you are talking about 16 bit you only need 2 or 3 combined with a bunch of 16 bit sprites before you notice performance lag.

 

And I did say 352 X 224 16 bit.

 

Native also does all of what you said with graphics TEARING. This is a hit on performance, the very thing we don't want and Native doesn't even have sound.

 

Even if you know a way of getting it to do those things without performance hits (ie graphics tearing) these large 16 bit graphics DO tax the bus, that is the fact that I was stating.

 

You are also completely missing the fact that I am using RB+ and not GPU specific assembly code.

 

This entire argument is completely pointless as I am not making the game with large 16 bit backgrounds. This fixation you have with judging my skill level and what I am capable of and what I am not capable of is ridiculous.

 

So let me save you some trouble. Can I write GPU specific code to make some other game use large screenwide 16 bit images scroll in conjunction with more than 16 other 16 bit objects and also have music and sound without graphics tearing or lag? At the moment no I can not. And for this project there is no reason to because there is another way. Can other people do this? Of course they can.

 

There is nothing wrong with the direction that I am taking with the development of Fishin' Frenzy. There is something wrong with you having a snarky attitude and trying to school me about something I am not even doing. This guy cubanismo said I could conserve on memory by doing the things he suggested, I agreed with him because these are things I was already doing anyway. You come in with all of this other extra stuff. For what purpose? I asked you before, what is it that you are trying to accomplish here? Throw my thread off track? Seems that way. Your remarks from the very beginning were demeaning and condescending. By reading what you wrote one could come to the conclusion that you think very little of this project, as if it were child like in nature. If that is the case then why are you still so invested in arguing with me?

I know. But since you are aware you can't code the Jaguar, isn't it time for you to just back off and stop telling nonsense?

 

Just for the record:

 

- you can perfectly parallax scroll an 900Kbyte 1024x900 pixel big graphic layer and an 330x300 pixel 16 bit backdrop at 60 FPS, with animated sprites.

You think an 352x224 object is "big" and pushing the limits? See, there is enough bandwidth to do MUCH more. 

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

I know. But since you are aware you can't code the Jaguar, isn't it time for you to just back off and stop telling nonsense?

 

Just for the record:

 

- you can perfectly parallax scroll an 900Kbyte 1024x900 pixel big graphic layer and an 330x300 pixel 16 bit backdrop at 60 FPS, with animated sprites.

You think an 352x224 object is "big" and pushing the limits? See, there is enough bandwidth to do MUCH more. 

1024 X 900 16 BIT????  Combined with the 330 X 300? I don't think so. You didn't say the 1024 X 900 was 16 bit, you just said "big graphic layer" if this 1024 X 900 imaginary graphic you are talking about is 4 or 8 bit then you are no longer talking about the same imaginary scenerio you were arguing about before. You have now set up a whole new imaginary scenerio. You also are not saying if there is music, sound and over 16 other 16 bit animated objects moving on screen. You are changing the variables to fit your narrative

 

I would also like to point out that you stated ALL graphics in Native are 16 bit but then you said some are 8 bit. Well which is it? Are they all 16 bit or is it some 8 bit and some 16 bit? Native also has graphics tearing and NO sound which makes it a bad example to use for your pointless argument anyway.

 

Then you said that you were sure Rayman was ALL 16 bit graphics but then admitted that the background layers could be 8 bit. Well which is it?

 

You are still making a pointless argument with me about a game with all 16 bit graphics and large ones at that with paralax and you keep giving examples of games that supposedly do this but then every one of your examples also use 256 CLUT for some graphics..... So in the end none of your examples are ALL 16 bit graphics.

 

Fishin' Frenzy is NOT all 16 bit graphics. It is also NOT taxing the system as I have taken the measures based on my experience using RB+ to conserve where possible.

 

You feel that because you made some artwork for some games in the past and you have seen some other people pull some stuff off with the GPU that this makes you qualified to talk down to me and shit on my efforts. It does not.

 

I believe you are trying to say I am being arrogant but the irony here is you are the one being arrogant.

 

"I was right! I got confirmation from the developer ALL graphics are 16 bit..... Except some of them are 8 bit"

 

Wtf is that?

 

You have the audacity to tell me that I need to back off yet you are the one attacking me and telling me about how I don't know how to do things that I'm not even attempting to do in the first place because it's unnecessary.

 

No it's time for you to back off, not me.

[+cubanismo]

Alright, let's get this over with:

 

I'm at about 6.  Who's next?

[Welshworrier]

Is that centimeters ?

[The Helper]

Why do you argue with Cyrano every time he posts on your threads?  Just ignore him.  Every time you get into it with him your threads just devolve.  You know you do not have to respond to everything he says right or wrong or whatever, the guy knows a hundred times what you do about Jaguar programming you should just take advice or criticism if he gives it, be happy and just move on man. 

 

[JagChris]

It's the weekend. We gotta get 82 in here with a couple beers in him to liven up the thread. 

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

16 minutes ago, Chris Brockman said:

Why do you argue with Cyrano every time he posts on your threads?  Just ignore him.  Every time you get into it with him your threads just devolve.  You know you do not have to respond to everything he says right or wrong or whatever, the guy knows a hundred times what you do about Jaguar programming you should just take advice or criticism if he gives it, be happy and just move on man. 

 

This is not Cyrano, this is somebody else. There is no advice or criticism being given here. Just a pointless argument about a "what if" scenerio.

It's completely off topic.

 

[Lost Dragon]

On 6/27/2020 at 7:52 AM, Gummy Bear said:

Yes! 

I said a while back that the Jag needed a fishing game! 

It'd be a welcome addition to the Jaguar library. 

 

 

Sadly this thread is in real danger of turning into something out of the pages of this:

 

http://www.mnftiu.cc/category/fighting/

[+cubanismo]

43 minutes ago, JagChris said:

We gotta get 82 in here with a couple beers in him to liven up the thread. 

If it helps, I'm happy to drink beer for the cause.  Hot as hell out here in CA.  Would be a good day for a beer and some 64-bit fishing ?

[+Sauron]

I still fail to see where Jeff has been bragging about his coding skills. Honestly, the argument you guys have gotten into is rather pedantic, so I'll just say this: We all know the quality (or lack of) that has plagued his previous games, and plenty of us have given him endless grief over it. Honestly, I'm rather tired of seeing someone taking a big dump on the thread whenever he says something you don't agree with. Leave him alone and let his games speak for themselves.

 

 

[Machine]

I learned a new word today!