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TIX

Bombjack's sprites

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Posted (edited)

Hi !

 

I recently discovered this port, and I'm having great fun with it !

I have earlier dismissed it because I thought it was a port of the C64 version (which I hate) 🙃

 

I wonder if the game's source graphics and tools are still available !?

I was never a fan of the c64 sprites.. so I'd like to see how close to the arcade I could take them..

If that is not possible, even a sprite sheet would be useful  !

 

Thanks anyway.

 

ps: I tried to PM  @Tezz and @Kaz atarionline.pl but the messages doesn't came through..

Edited by TIX
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@TIX Hi, no your PM didn't arrive for some reason, I'm not sure why, my inbox is not maxed. I wasn't a fan of the C64 sprites either TBH but I was part of a team and Vega specifically wanted to retain them. I had drawn my own arcade accurate sprites originally which I will still have on a back up drive. I have all our work files for the development of Bomb Jack and Bomb Jake.

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awesome, and it would be simple for an end screen ntsc fix, perhaps screen height or dli too great(big)

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The source code was released 12 years ago, it should be listed in the original thread.

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Hey, @tebe and @Tezz thanks a lot guys,

 

As far as I can tell those are probably playfield characters, hence the extra width ! am I right ?

If this is true, how many characters do they take ? and do we have 4 colors available ?

 

It should be an interesting exercise  !

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/28/2020 at 9:50 AM, TIX said:

Hey, @tebe and @Tezz thanks a lot guys,

 

As far as I can tell those are probably playfield characters, hence the extra width ! am I right ?

If this is true, how many characters do they take ? and do we have 4 colors available ?

 

It should be an interesting exercise  !

 

Hi Tix, BJ employs a multi font display in mode 4 (5 colours) with some fixed colours in the DLI's. The soft sprites are pre-rolled and make use of PM overlays incorporating a multiplex procedure. The display uses 4 fonts with reservations for the background and the fixed elements such as the bombs and ledges. It is all planned and designed around the soft sprite requirements. The soft sprite procedures were coded by Tebe and are within the MADS examples. Some info on the history... BJ was a mix of two projects, I was working on a Bomb Jack conversion from the arcade and Vega was working on a (fixed) conversion from the C64 so we joined the projects and worked together. The project was specifically designed from the start for the CORINA cartridge. The background graphics and pre-rolled sprite definitions along with everything else required over 128Kb. The bonus 320Kb exectable released at the end of the project had everything dumped into a single file including the loading pics hence the high RAM requirement. I have toyed with the idea a few times over the years about working on Bomb Jack arcade as I was originally intending. Perhaps with careful planning and a complete rewrite with a different approach, a multiload 128Kb game could be created.

 

I searched through some of my archived files looking for my completed sprite sheet, they must have been on my office PC so I'll keep looking. I did find a memory dump of one of my sprite tests where I was visualising some of the definitions of my original sprites. There's also some of my original WIP layouts with a couple of BJ sprite frames included. If I remember correctly I'd planned for Jack and the bird to use PMGs and the rest were to be soft sprites. I've attached an AVI of the quick test from 2007 with the two PMG based sprites and I've also attached some images of the layouts.

 

 

Bomb_Jack_(s2).png

 

Bomb_Jack_(s4).png

Edited by Tezz
The forum doesn't display bitmap images
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the explanation @Tezz !

 

from what I can see, your vision is looking sweet ! Bomb Jack arcade would be ideal !!

We had the same issue with "Wonderboy", when I got in the project the guys were going the c64 road, long story short we are now going full arcade 😉

 

I wonder if we could take the middle road, using the BJ engine as is and replace all moving graphics with "as close to the arcade" versions as possible !?

I've done a couple of tests, and there is huge space for improvement retaining dimensions and colors, without changing anything else..

 

 

  orb3.gif.f2bd89d593203d0cf86a1eaaa031e1b9.gif    I'll work on the sprites anyway as a side project, and I'll PM you !

 

🤘:D

 

 

Edited by TIX
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Posted (edited)

oh man...  I just realized Jack's running sequence from the arcade isn't all that hot    ->   arcade.gif.2154a5024392975815c60bd9c7159f31.gif  

the c64 version is smoother, but...  just no    ->   c64.gif.e4d4f19ab5b6a778af1d54021a9e5920.gif

 

In those dimensions we can almost have a pixel by pixel translation of the arcade,  but I guess I'm going to deviate at least in the running sequence..  😉

 

 

 

Edited by TIX
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Posted (edited)

I'll smile if the improved ATARI version with TIX's sprites is ready before the improved c64 version will see the light of the day (it is already in development for more than five years and the motivation for the c64 coders was the atari version which they considered ways better than the original c64 conversion). 😀😀😀

Edited by patjomki

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58 minutes ago, patjomki said:

I'll smile if the improved ATARI version with TIX's sprites is ready before the improved c64 version will see the light of the day (it is already in development for more than five years and the motivation for the c64 coders was the atari version which they considered ways better than the original c64 conversion). 😀😀😀

Well the guys behind DX continued on to creating new customised backgrounds which some have liked and some not so much. The sprites in DX are closer to the original now although perhaps Jack himself could be further improved. With the Atari release I could have redrawn the sprites myself as I never liked or wanted those overly fat sprites from the c64 official release but I wanted to remain respectful to what was agreed in the project. I think it would have been remiss of me to go back and change them after the fact. As a former professional graphic designer sometimes you have to live with things out of your control :)

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On 7/1/2020 at 1:31 PM, TIX said:

Thanks for the explanation @Tezz !

 

I've done a couple of tests, and there is huge space for improvement retaining dimensions and colors, without changing anything else..

 

I'll work on the sprites anyway as a side project, and I'll PM you !

No problem, there's certainly a mile of room for improvement over the sprites. If you are changing the dimensions it should require the bounding box for the collision detection to be altered too.

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I should also mention that my early layouts with the shaded ledges were scuppered when the vertical ledges intersect horizonal ledges in certain later rounds so I needed to figure out a workaround in the planning. That became a moot point though after the projects merged.

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As much as I like the idea of getting better sprites I like the original release of bomb jack for the atari 8 bit because it came out of nowhere and was already a very polished product.

 

BTW, what is the last release for public download (got a little confused with bomb jake/bomb jack)?

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Afaik,

 

Bomb Jake = Corina cart. version

Bomb Jack = XEX fileversion, last released version was V1.5

 

Bomb Jack XEX

 

(I prefer the Exomizer packed version 1.4 of Bomb Jack, because it shows the name, the version number and the RAM requirements during loading.)

 

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I'm having so much fun with Jack and co,

the robot enemies are done, Jack proved to be more challenging !

it's going slowly but I'm getting there  :)

 

1711773275_arcadeJack.gif.17ead7eae2e2fc88fe7cba526c8a981b.gif   222635433_myJack.gif.aadc2f9e2417474fef5e7339a6094578.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/2/2020 at 9:00 PM, CharlieChaplin said:

Afaik,

 

Bomb Jake = Corina cart. version

Bomb Jack = XEX fileversion, last released version was V1.5

 

Bomb Jack XEX

 

(I prefer the Exomizer packed version 1.4 of Bomb Jack, because it shows the name, the version number and the RAM requirements during loading.)

 

Are there any differences between bomb jake and bomb jack V1.5 (except for the name change)?

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Posted (edited)

Cheering

189625757_arcadeJackcheering.gif.d17fd2c2b06348d27860d397c17bead9.gif   1761062411_myJackcheering.gif.be6f386a3f6a3a8c584200212d345313.gif

 

Flying

1044876452_arcadeJackflying.gif.c1c631e26a07ae9a055654386e479c1f.gif   493087695_myJackflying.gif.efdd57cb262d27f6df7540609a1c83d8.gif

 

 

Edit:  I should have put there the original c64 sprites for comparison..  ok in next batch !

Edited by TIX
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Posted (edited)

Hi.

Let me just give a little help before work continue and wasting the time...

All moving guys (including Jack) use 2PFs (playfield colours same as on the gfxs) that are black and red. Then each one uses a Player and a Missile to give the 3rd colour.

So the red and black can be used on all in their width (9, 10, 11, 12,... pixels whatever be) but the 3rd colour (white in Jack, light gray on robots or light brown on birds or the round/circle creatures) Player (8pixels) and Missile (2pixels) can only have a maximum of 10pixels width if the the two are consecutive or 8[space(s)]2 pixels / 2[space(s)]8 pixels so there's already frames that'll not be possible on Jack because white has 11consecutive pixels on some of his scanlines.

👍

Edited by José Pereira

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Thanks for the explanation

 

this is a side project for me, I don't plan to hack the game, as long as the guys @Tezz + @tebe are against it.

If sometime later they decide to back me up, I'm sure we'll iron out all technical inconsistencies.

Till then no time wasted, I'm just enjoying myself  ;)

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Posted (edited)

I didn't read where they were against it...

On 7/2/2020 at 2:32 PM, Tezz said:

No problem, there's certainly a mile of room for improvement over the sprites. If you are changing the dimensions it should require the bounding box for the collision detection to be altered too.

sounded positive to me....

Edited by _The Doctor__
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On 7/2/2020 at 9:28 PM, Tezz said:

.

I wanted to remain respectful to what was agreed in the project. I think it would have been remiss of me to go back and change them after the fact. As a former professional graphic designer sometimes you have to live with things out of your control :)

.

I assumed from the above that @Tezz wasn't comfortable with this, and I understood this kind of thought process as an artist myself !

If I did misunderstood , then all the better  :D

 

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