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MrPix

New, cheaper SGM clone.

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1 minute ago, opcode said:

 

That is a good definition. I remember I had an in-law that I wanted to punch now and then... But most the time he was ok, like when he wasn't visiting me.  :)  j/k

I've 2 brothers, trust me, I know what you mean ;)

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1 minute ago, retroillucid said:

I've 2 brothers, trust me, I know what you mean ;)

 

Lucky me, I had none. Otherwise that would have totally ruined my charming spoiled personality. Now stop making me come here to answer you. If I have to delay DK again, it is your fault. To add to the list of things that are your fault. Bye.

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2 minutes ago, opcode said:

 

Lucky me, I had none. Otherwise that would have totally ruined my charming spoiled personality. Now stop making me come here to answer you. If I have to delay DK again, it is your fault. To add to the list of things that are your fault. Bye.

Nah, look at the number of people lurking here!
It's time to start some drama and announce something!  :D
Okay, I'm stopping here  ;) :)

 

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Nah, look at the number of people lurking here!
It's time to start some drama and announce something! 
Okay, I'm stopping here   

 


You right. Ok, uhum, ladies and gentlemen, now that we have your attention....

“Introducing....”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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8 minutes ago, opcode said:

 


You right. Ok, uhum, ladies and gentlemen, now that we have your attention....

“Introducing....”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

introducing....

 

The SGM Lite by Opcode Games

comes only as a bare PCB (no case), no manual and no box.

 

suggested retail - $35

 

🥳

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1 minute ago, NIAD said:

introducing....

 

The SGM Lite by Opcode Games

comes only as a bare PCB (no case), no manual and no box.

 

suggested retail - $35

 

🥳

 

Ugh, who would want that?! Someone touches the damn thing, puf, gone. And the reason most people want a SGM is because the box. Have you ever hold that box?  Who needs porn with that box? I can't sell something I would never buy myself, no way... 😝

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16 minutes ago, NIAD said:

introducing....

 

The SGM Lite by Opcode Games

comes only as a bare PCB (no case), no manual and no box.

 

suggested retail - $35

Introducing....

The SGM Extra Lite by Opcode Games
Comes with extra thin circuit board with razor sharp edge, components that needs to be soldered into.  No case.  Be extra careful when inserting it into the Colecovision.  Alternately, it can help cut butter. Ship in regular white envelope with no warranty. 

Suggested retrail - $25.95.  Bandaids, stitches and aloe cream not included.

JK,
 

49 minutes ago, retroillucid said:

There's nothing personal between Eduardo and I 

I'm happy to hear that.  :)

 

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3 minutes ago, opcode said:

 

Ugh, who would want that?! Someone touches the damn thing, puf, gone. And the reason most people want a SGM is because the box. Have you ever hold that box?  Who needs porn with that box? I can't sell something I would never buy myself, no way... 😝

True but nothing more fun than playing the Capitalism game by offering a similar product and undercutting their price!

 

Considering my suggested retail price of $35... yeah, I got all crazy with that amount especially being $10 less than the MEGA MOD. Should have gone with $44.99!

 

Then we can go down the road if Darwinism. You know, survival of the fittest.


image.jpeg.09233c9765b7784c21308ef5f6158f26.jpeg

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True but nothing more fun than playing the Capitalism game by offering a similar product and undercutting their price!
 
Considering my suggested retail price of $35... yeah, I got all crazy with that amount especially being $10 less than the MEGA MOD. Should have gone with $44.99!
 
Then we can go down the road if Darwinism. You know, survival of the fittest.

image.jpeg.09233c9765b7784c21308ef5f6158f26.jpeg

Well, in that case:

Introducing the SGM DIY Mega Light

Comes with a bare PCB.

Retails for $15.

Then buy weekly issues with components and all the required tools* so you can assemble your SGM. While most SGM can only offer you the joy of playing games, with the SGM DIY Mega Light you will have the inexorable joy of soldering your own PCB. Now that is fun!

But that isn’t all. If your SGM does work at the end of the collection, you can take home this beautiful patch to prove you are a Super Game Module Pro! Got it, SGM Pro... never mind.

What a deal!!

* box of Burnaid included


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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15 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

Introducing....

The SGM Extra Lite by Opcode Games
Comes with extra thin circuit board with razor sharp edge, components that needs to be soldered into.  No case.  Be extra careful when inserting it into the Colecovision.  Alternately, it can help cut butter. Ship in regular white envelope with no warranty. 

Suggested retrail - $25.95.  Bandaids, stitches and aloe cream not included.

JK,
 

I'm happy to hear that.  :)

 

 

Damn, ok, you ruined my joke, you posted it first!... To the "things that are J-F's fault" list you go...

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2 hours ago, mumbai said:

"NTSC TV", given the context, meaning non-HDMI.

Pretty sure that's exactly what @christo930 said in so many words.

It's not that "it's not for me," it's that it's not for everyone.   I'm pretty sure I am not the only person who likes their classic games on CRT TVs.  There are plenty of people who already have a Colecovision.  Also, I couldn't buy one anyway because they are on back order.

 

 

I don't know who the OP is. I have nothing against Ed or the SGM or the guys doing the Phoenix.  I find it absolutely perplexing that people came out against it, especially when they aren't available.  I just find it very odd that people would say "no, you can't do this because... er, well, reasons." (that is what it looks like to me).  It comes off weird to say "you can't do this" but "we can do that" (the IP stuff)

 

 

1 hour ago, NIAD said:

The Berzerk port that is nearing completion was originally going to support the Juicebox’s Say Game Module that included a Speech Synthesizer (I don’t recall the chip, but it was the same one used by Eve Electronics in their Adam Speech Synth/Clock Card back in 1985). After numerous “issues” between Juice and the community, Juice left and speech synth in Berzerk was dropped.

I saw the videos.  It looks good.

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16 minutes ago, christo930 said:

It's not that "it's not for me," it's that it's not for everyone.   I'm pretty sure I am not the only person who likes their classic games on CRT TVs.  There are plenty of people who already have a Colecovision.  Also, I couldn't buy one anyway because they are on back order.

 

Like I already mentioned (and was also previously mentioned by bmack awhile ago) 
We're planning to release an adapter for CRT TVs 
 

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4 minutes ago, retroillucid said:

Like I already mentioned (and was also previously mentioned by bmack awhile ago) 
We're planning to release an adapter for CRT TVs 
 

That's good news.  That could very well change my mind on getting one. 

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3 hours ago, 128Kgames said:

He put a lot of time and effort into it. 

I reverse engineered it in three hours from publicly available information. The only information provided by Eduardo was which IO ports he'd used. This information is highly generic.

3 hours ago, 128Kgames said:

I don't think you've been around here long enough to make that kind of statement.

I've been doing retro hardware since before it was retro. I started in 1984, to be precise. I first did Coleco hardware in the 90s.

3 hours ago, 128Kgames said:

I don't get the feel you're confronting "anti-competitive" behavior, rather your post sounds like you wanted to produce something someone else already had, and when you received some push back, decided "well I'll show him and release my own anyway!"  You're doing it for you, come one, admit it.

Don't ever presume to tell me what I should say, think or feel.

3 hours ago, 128Kgames said:

There is another source, and its licensed, its called the Phoenix.  And Opcode is making more SGM's so again, no need for this.  

The Phoenix is ok with reproducing the SGM logic because, what, they paid a license fee for it? You think someone that did something simple that anyone could do and a few others have somehow gives them the right to demand a license fee any time anything overlaps? No. The licensable properties are the Super Game Module trademark and the source code that described the equations within the CPLD. As I have produced my own compatible code without ever seeing theirs, there is no infringement.

3 hours ago, 128Kgames said:

A text to speech ad on for the Coleco would be cool, I know its been talked about being added to other devices over the years but I would totally get behind someone making a "ColecoVoice!" (feel free to use that!) 

I think they sound like chickens, so I was thinking Voice Bawks.

3 hours ago, lawdawg710 said:

Yeah not really thinking this will do well.  The juicebox bullshit created enough drama, we don't need more.  Your attitude honestly seems in line with the person who made the juicebox.  Not sure how many you think you will sell but most of us, I think, are up to paying more for a known, trusted and quality product like Eduardos SGM than give any money to someone spewing venom and pretending they do it "for the community".  You may want to try your hand at another product.  Just my opinion.

I have spewed no venom. I have said what I am doing, and why, and how. You're not my customer. You were never my target market. I'm not this juicebox guy, not trying to emulate him. You are the people who keep bringing him up. Literally the first response to my post was a comparison to juicebox, so this obviously has nothing to do with who I am and everything to do with what I am going to do.

3 hours ago, doubledown said:

A direct quote from MrPix on 06/18/20 (full post found HERE)

 

"I don't have any incentive to make an SGM. Anyhow, I have better ideas that make the SGM look like a toy ;)"

 

Yet here we are, with what I understand to be  a direct clone.  Why the 180?

The reason for the direct clone came about because I talked directly to Eduardo at Opcode. I explained my plans to him, gave him partial but detailed specs, and hoped he would see merit in what I'm designing. It really does make SGM look like a toy. His response was "thanks for the info. I've hired my own guys to do this, you shouldn't make any SGM compatibility in your expansion." My thinking was who the hell does this guy think he is? He basically told me to not include RAM or sound. You know, like Coleco tried to do, like others have done, and like he did. Sorry, he's not my employer. That's why I have my own business. 

Soooo, how do I wave my elbows around a little bit to make some room for my upcoming board? How do I let people know I'm going to make a very capable device that will at least match the SGM2, likely beat it in a number of areas, and be open hardware so when SGM2 eventually turns up, it will have something to be compatible with? Now it's true that if Eduardo hadn't brushed me off, I'd not be doing this. But as it stands he has inside and confidential information about the spec of my "SGM2" and I know nothing of his plans. This is likely his last batch of SGM, by his own statements. It costs the same now as it did when first released. Why? If someone else can make an unglamorous, 100% compatible, half the cost or less device, he should compete. He's done nothing in 10 years. It's time for something new. So competition is good.

3 hours ago, retroillucid said:

I would suggest you move with another project
Doing the similar projects would not serve the communty well 

Of course you're free to pursue with your SGM clone, but I would suggest you to bring something new to the community
In the past, there's a guy who tried to do a SGM clone, he ended up being banned here (and on all CV Facebook page as well) 

Sure, you can keep going with your project, but I don't think it would be welcomed here and will probably cause useless drama.

I had my shares of ''troubles'' with Eduardo, but there's one think you can't deny about him, Ed is very passionated and dedicated to the ColecoVision community, and I respect that (and you should too)

Anyway, like I already said, you're free to do whatever you want
But the community will react according to your decision to keep going or not 

First, thank you for the friendly tone of your comments. I appreciate it puts me in a difficult position. My platform is that the SGM is in fact incompetent hardware, poorly designed, primitive and with very poor design. "Another SGM" isn't much use if it is just an exact copy of the existing expansion. I do plan to add new features. Features the original SGM could easily have supported but doesn't. I'm not going to discuss those improvements here yet, because I don't want to show my hand. Just making a literal 1:1 SGM clone would be boring, unethical and really quite pointless, as you've said.

The problem here is that I offered to add features, and to freely share my design, and I was shut down (as in declined permission) with a sob story about how I'm trying to "get games." I'm not interested in software at all - I'm a hardware guy. That could not be further off base.

Let's be serious here for a minute. The SGM is boring. The Phoenix is boring. They are literally re-implementations of 80s work and 80s ideas, with nothing new (except the Phoenix has unlicensed HDMI)... Not one single new thing beyond promises from '83. Opcode's games are for the main part unlicensed ports from the MSX, sold for high prices with a hardware lock-in. All I am doing at this stage is breaking the hardware lock-in. It's not dramatic. It's not harmful to Opcode. If anything it will increase his sales, his free time and reduce the burden of this episodic manufacturing nonsense where it's available but oh no it's not but oh yes it is manufactured scarcity. He's played the market like a fiddle, which is his right. I'm entering the market, which is my right.

When the community gets a wider feel for the variety of things I'm bringing to fruition, they'll warm up. Or they won't. It's their money and they can spend it where they like.

I'm not interested in the games tho - not my thing. At all. 

 

3 hours ago, christo930 said:

There are long periods of time when there are no SGMs available.  People keep saying there is no demand for them. To whatever degree that might be true, it's a stretch to say therefore you shouldn't do it. It's just a rationalization to say don't do this because it hurts the SGM guys. This also runs into the assumption that these things will be made and sold indefinitely.  Having additional sources of very low volume hardware is a good thing.  People are just getting offended for some unfathomable reason.

If you already have paid your Opcode tax, and you want more SGMs for other consoles, but smaller, sleeker, lower profile.... What are your choices? It really is unfathomable, and thank you for your support.
 

 

3 hours ago, retroillucid said:

Price is $199 + shipping 
SMG is built-in ($75) 
F18A is built-in ($90)
No need for multicart ($100) 

That's really disingenuous. the Phoenix uses modern technology to recreate these circuits in an FPGA. So while the customer's avoided cost is $75, the maker's incremental cost is <$2. The F18A is built in, avoided cost $90, incremental cost about $15. Multicart is literally logic and has no incremental cost. The only element in those that seems reasonable to me is the F18A, which is a stunning bit of kit. The incremental value isn't $90 though. 

Now, the Phoenix has some quite extreme economics. The case moldings, those are probably the largest single manufacturing cost. They have to be done in bulk to get the per item cost low enough to be economical. So I think $199 is a fair price.

The SGM though. A 50c SRAM, a $1.25 CPLD and a $2.15 sound chip on a 50c PCB with a $3.25 connector. Under $8 for the basic functionality. $90 delivered. For $90 retail I have produced a complete clone computer. It's ridiculous. It's like the razor blade model, except the handle AND the blades are super expensive. The real offense in all this is that one person is making the money, and it's not the people writing the games.

The people who write the games are the lifeblood of the community. They need to be able to justify the very long hours spent writing, testing, debugging, getting feedback, selling, supporting.... It's a thankless task. It should at least be rewarding.

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3 hours ago, TPR said:

And on top of all that, please don't make me have to moderate yet another ColecoVision drama thread.  I just don't have the patience for it, and if it turns into a huge drama battle, things will not end well for any of the parties contributing.  I hope I have made myself very clear with that last point.

I am making an SGM clone. Anybody want one?

From this post forth I will only respond to positive commentary and ignore any drama posts. I've said my piece and heard the feedback. I'm going to be sunshine and light from here on out.

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2 hours ago, Tarzilla said:

If I recall, one of the big issues with the j-box was the bad audio buzz people reported but was never rectified or acknowledged. Adding new hardware to these retro systems isn't as trivial as it may seem. Just ask the 7800 homebrew hardware makers or Albert what kind of hell testing across the various evil versions of the 7800 motherboard is. Even the Colecovision has variant quirks.

This is a concern. One idea I have been playing with is the idea of having a small pre-amp on the expansion, and a line out/headphone socket. This way you'd get the best audio quality without it having to go back through the CV. Also, for late night playing, headphones. I'd have to do it using a switching 3.5mm socket, so if nothing was plugged in, the signal would instead be routed back to the console and TV.

Good thought. Thanks for your idea.

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The real offense in all this is that one person is making the money, and it's not the people writing the games.

The people who write the games are the lifeblood of the community. They need to be able to justify the very long hours spent writing, testing, debugging, getting feedback, selling, supporting.... It's a thankless task. It should at least be rewarding.


Not sure who you are accusing here, since I only publish my own games. But that is a nice try. Good luck with your revenge plan.


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2 hours ago, NIAD said:

The Berzerk port that is nearing completion was originally going to support the Juicebox’s Say Game Module that included a Speech Synthesizer (I don’t recall the chip, but it was the same one used by Eve Electronics in their Adam Speech Synth/Clock Card back in 1985). After numerous “issues” between Juice and the community, Juice left and speech synth in Berzerk was dropped.

I don't know what happened there. I do have an Eve speech unit here I have been working on repairing for a FB forum member. It's been a real challenge. I have reverse engineered the whole thing, and spend over $50 on rare and obscure parts for it and still got nowhere. I personally find speech interesting (but then, WarGames was one of my fave films ever!) but I'm fearful that if it will be this difficult to implement reliably and with good and consistent results, it's a risk I might not want to take. I have made a personal commitment that if I can't get this speech unit repaired in the next week or two, I'm going to have to declare defeat - my first in a couple of years.

My SGM clone has a through port, so it is further expandable. The current SGM does not. This is important because it is the base for a few things. Think AdamNet and CP/M on the CV, etc. But that's the future and I don't know how easily that will shake out.

 

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Quote

But as it stands he has inside and confidential information about the spec of my "SGM2" and I know nothing of his plans.

 

First of all, I never asked any information, and I dare you to prove otherwise. You sent me an unsolicited message, for which I replied I was not interested.

 

Quote

This is likely his last batch of SGM, by his own statements. 

I never said that.

 

The real reason for all of this is that you can't do games, so your hardware is useless. So the need to copy something that exists, like if that was yours to do as you see fit. Maybe you can, the real question here is if you can get much support, because from what I can gauge, you aren't doing many friends here.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, MrPix said:



Let's be serious here for a minute. The SGM is boring. The Phoenix is boring. 

 


 


Well, .... over 1000+ people do not agree with you 
And the community do not have million of people 

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You came here to cause trouble, show off and get revenge.

I think thats pretty clear to anyone reading this.

Ed's sgm is already a good price point and comes packaged great. And its not always available because this is a limited market.

If this was your idea why didnt you do it 10 years ago...since its so simple? Why dont you make your own bigger better thing, or a new game, or a new console.

Your are not here for love of the community.

There are plenty of original things you can do for classic systems.

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OP, since you didn’t reverse engineer the hardware your clone may not be 100% compatible with sgm games now or in the future. how do you deal with a customer who says game x doesn’t work on your device? do you fix it for free?  have you tested it with all current sgm games?  are you offering money back guarantee?

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2 minutes ago, retroillucid said:

Well, .... over 1000+ people do not agree with you 
And the community do not have million of people 

I respect your POV. 1000+ customers is 1000+ people who only had one choice. You cannot make assumptions about what they believe or think of them like votes. 1000+ people wanted a new CV console. What were their choices?

Boring doesn't mean crap. Boring means "missed opportunity to bring something really new to the table." I mean, really, the SGM is the best we've got, and it's good enough that it's a bullet point feature on the Phoenix. And really, that's very very sad. That after 38 years, the high tide of killer features is "a couple more sound channels and some extra memory." Where is the 50MHz CV with a 3.5MHz backwards compatible mode, that in fast mode is 16 bit with 16MB address space? It's not available to the programmers, because it seems you're not allowed to develop hardware unless you want to do the coding for it too. Which is fine. People can think that way. If I had reviewed my post before hitting send I might have edited the word "boring" to "uninspiring."

There are people here who think this is about software. That amuses me. I'm a competent programmer. I just do not enjoy programming, and prefer hardware. I like to make hardware that increases options for programmers. Programming is just not the best use of my time, resources, energy or finances. I'm porting CP/M 3 to the Adam (and CV by proxy). I don't need others for software. They may or may not need me for hardware. Which is their free choice. When the fuss and drama dies down, and the feelings are stated and priced in, I think what finally gets released will be of greater interest than the SGM and people 

I know some people will never accept this, but any expansion that moves forward has to be able to run Opcode's library and run Pixelboy's library, all with 100% compatibility. Any new console or expansion that omitted the basic and simple features to do that is dead before it begins. Any new product does at least need to have SGM functionality as a subset of its expanded functionality, since the CV has one expansion port and if you plug my thing into it you have to unplug Opcodes thing from it. It's a bit of a catch-22 isn't it. It's not my fault that half the market is split off and requires special hardware. What am I supposed to do? Just not support Opcode's games?

I was going to ask Ed about licensing terms, on the basis that it might be cheaper than my attorney's time, but he closed that door and told me quite clearly that we have nothing further to discuss. So here we are. Drama and people being offended on behalf of someone else. I've got a lot of hate mail and support mail - about 50/50, over all. It's just a tough situation all round.

If I had just said "I'm making some SGM clones. Who wants one?" I believe I would have faced the same drama and minions blowing up at me. Seems to be some sort of an MO as any time anyone tried to augment, improve on or in any way overlap anything of Eduardos, the response is fast, vicious and no holds barred.

I find it ironic that nobody from that camp has asked me why, what the deal is, how I got here. I'm not interested in the drama. I'm trying to focus on the good ideas and positive posts, and not replying at all to certain parties with their wild accusations.

I'm doing my best.

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5 hours ago, digress said:

I think you are going to make some great additions to the community and clearly you know what you are doing.

 

I would recommend reading through this thread here first though so you can better understand why I think it might be better to make something new rather than this.

 

 

Juice's SGM's were pieces of crap, however. If I recall correctly, they had a buzzing noise in the sound. I, unfortunately, was one of the people who bought one, although I eventually got my money back.

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