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MrPix

New, cheaper SGM clone.

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8 minutes ago, Pixelboy said:

I was agreeing with your post until this part above. Some people seem to have a philosophical problem with the concept of "territory" where ColecoVision homebrewing is concerned. Yet this concept has been at the core of CV homebrewing since the appearance of the very first CIB homebrews over a decade ago. But in a way this "philosophical problem" is understandable because there's a certain notion of open tell-and-share in other homebrew communities: Look at how easily Atari 2600 homebrewers share work-in-progress ROMs of their games on the AtariAge forums, there's not a lot of that going on in the ColecoVision community.

 

So yes, there's a concept of "territory" in this community of homebrewers. It follows the first-arrived-plants-his-flag system, and when someone says he has dibs on a game or a piece of hardware, other CV homebrewers are expected to respect this "unwritten declaration" before and after the release of the product, especially if the game is planned to be released with a box and manual.

 

For example, do you know why the famous Coleco vaporware title "Dracula" has never been released on cartridge by a CV homebrewer? One of the main reasons is because a guy named Dale Wick (he goes by the handle "hardhat" on AtariAge) has dibs on Dracula. He did some work on it (I saw his work-in-progress at an AdamCon convention years ago) and then he lost interest afterwards. Yet, to this day, no one else has seriously tackled Dracula. I should mention that this is a bad example, because Dale Wick has been missing in action on AtariAge (and in the general ColecoVision homebrew community) for a few years now, and I don't think he would complain if someone else did his own version of Dracula on ColecoVision. But the point is that he could "legitimately" pop on on these forums and complain if he wanted to, and the rest of the community would take note of his complaint. Also, with Dracula there's only one mockup screenshot and a short text that loosely describes the game on a Coleco promo flyer, and it's rather hard to create a good game from scratch with so little information, so that's another reason why no one else has tackled the project.

 

Anyway, all this to say that the concept of territory is important in this community, and saying that "it shouldn't be this way" is not going to make it go away. Anyone who steps on someone else's territory is going to need boxing gloves, that's all there is to it.

 

 

 

Exactly, Atari is a very different ecosystem because of AtariAge. AtariAge is the de facto publisher for all things Atari. So people in the Atari scene only needs to code. You can do that for fun, there is none of your money involved. Publishing on the other hand is an expensive proposition, especially in a small group like this. So we invest the money and time to get things done and out. And that is why we try not to step on each other's toes, because without this balance in respect, almost everything becomes inviable. Which incentive do I have to spend the money and time like I did on the SGM if I knew someone was just going to copy it, do a clone, whatever? So it isn't about status, it is about working in a way that makes all of this viable. Some stuff is just opportunistic, and while may sound fun and innocent for some, lacks proper respect for those using their time and money to make things happen. One example: CollectorVision has their console. So far they don't offer a printed box for that. So why can't I just go and make a box myself and sell it to anyone interested? I am sure a lot of people would love that, right? Well,  that isn't how that works. Phoenix is their console, and I will respect that. I respect their investment on that. It doesn't matter my opinion, it is theirs console. It doesn't matter if I won't use their logo, or their name, or the picture of the console or whatever, it is their console, period. If we enter in this kind of opportunistic race against each other, there is little incentive to keep going. The consequences are already here. When I created the SGM, I openly and gladly shared the specs so anyone could make games for it. I don't do that anymore, the reasons are here, in this very thread. I requested info on CollectorVision's sound chip so I could support it, never got an answer. And I don't blame them. There is now little incentive to share anything because of bad players.

 

What is happening in this thread is distracting at best, destructive at worst. This is opportunistic, to create something arounds someone's else work, so one can get instant and easy profit. 

 

We may be a small community, but the possibilities are limitless. You can always come up with a new game, you can always come up with new ideas. So there is no need to step on each other's toes.  

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9 hours ago, TPR said:

Personally if there is one thing I think this community could really use is for the homebrewers to reset the clock on some of these out of print games and do a 2nd run of them.  

 

One problem here is the games are so much money to begin with.  If the publishers keep them available on an ongoing basis, it basically puts a fairly low price cap on the used copies market.  If potential buyers knew they would available in perpetuity, they might not buy new releases. Knowing it could sell out any moment and never be available again is motivation to buy now.

 

But I would like to see a low value release available made to order in perpetuity. Perhaps a cart only availability.  But then again, I'm not a box collector.  I have maybe 40 or 50 boxed games spread out across a bunch of different systems. I only have about 8 boxed Colecovision games which I found one day in a thrift store all together (with the exception of homebrews, ALL of my games were found in the wild)

8 hours ago, retroclouds said:

I have barely seen any coleco games make us of what the F18a has to offer (which is a lot more than just VGA output).

 

That is just yet another platform.

1 hour ago, doubledown said:

But it's obvious that cartridge shells have to be made, as do manuals, boxes, labels, PCBs and the likes.

There is no way the cartridge shells are being made in such small runs.  The major expense in cartridge shells is the molds which were acquired long ago and the storage.  But 1000 shells could be kept in a single box and there are several people who all need cartridges who would vastly drop the per-cartridge cost by combining orders every couple of years (obviously there are limits to how many you can keep in your house or office between runs)

 

1 hour ago, doubledown said:

I would assume that some of this rings true in this world with custom printed labels, manuals, boxes and the likes.  If CollectorVision, Opcode, Team Pixelboy were to say that any of their games were available at any time, and 1 person orders this 1 game, how much would it cost to make only 1 of these games at a time?

Print labels with an ink printer with no manual or box sold as budget models.  Now, I don't know how feasible it is to have an erpom burners (and if 32K or 64K etc eproms are still available and I don't know if the game runs are using ROMs and not EPROMS) and boards which can work with eproms on hand  for "on demand" budget releases.  But given what I have heard about the income generated by this endeavor, it is simply not feasible to keep a large inventory of full releases with 4 color boxes manuals and labels of all the games.  OTOH, I don't know how many people would want a budget release without the 4 color professionally printed box, manual and label.  I know I would, but I don't know how many care. Of course, people who like boxes and manuals could also buy a budget release to play and keep their boxed version boxed.

 

The economics are already hard.  I don't know how much money someone paid for those molds or where the molds came from (IIRC, these molds have been around a long time, like since the 90s), but the molds alone run into 10k and up. Which, if you're making and selling 2 million cartridges (which is how many Coleco sold by the time their 1983 yearly report came out), you're down in the sub penny cost. When you are selling a 100 copies of a game, that mold cost may as well be a million for the profitability of the game.  I don't know how much the printing costs is, but it's not zero. I know that there is a large opportunity cost to program the game.

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4 hours ago, opcode said:

As I indicated, I am taking care of that. In addition to the 1200 SGM already out there, plus all the Phoenix, I am doing enough SGM in this run to supply all the pre-orders so far and a surplus for next year. Same for Gradius. The ideia is to have those in stock for anyone to buy. I don’t think we have a problem of supply right now. 

I've seen this before. 

What happens is, they're released to the AA store in small batches of 50 or so, and go very quickly. 

It is an active marketing strategy of creating artificial scarcity. When the market is under supplied to the point where these units trade hands for several hundred dollars between brief periods of unavailability, that's not a problem for opcode but it is a problem for the community - especially for people rejoining it, or younger kids finding out what the fuss of the parents and grandparents was about. It's great for the seller, who always gets the maximum perceived value but it's not in the best interests of the individuals in the community or for growing the community as a whole.

Since the SGM only has a perceived value and not a market value, adding other sellers allows the market to decide what the item is worth. There is some value in the SGM. There is a separate added value in the manuals and box. The manuals and box are the majority of the effort and value of the whole opcode SGM experience.

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4 minutes ago, MrPix said:

I've seen this before. 

What happens is, they're released to the AA store in small batches of 50 or so, and go very quickly. 

It is an active marketing strategy of creating artificial scarcity. When the market is under supplied to the point where these units trade hands for several hundred dollars between brief periods of unavailability, that's not a problem for opcode but it is a problem for the community - especially for people rejoining it, or younger kids finding out what the fuss of the parents and grandparents was about. It's great for the seller, who always gets the maximum perceived value but it's not in the best interests of the individuals in the community or for growing the community as a whole.

Since the SGM only has a perceived value and not a market value, adding other sellers allows the market to decide what the item is worth. There is some value in the SGM. There is a separate added value in the manuals and box. The manuals and box are the majority of the effort and value of the whole opcode SGM experience.

 

So, for the record, are you accusing me of creating artificial scarcity? 

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10 minutes ago, MrPix said:

What happens is, they're released to the AA store in small batches of 50 or so, and go very quickly.

This is not true, the two batches we sold through AtariAge were in the hundreds, between those two runs we shipped over 600 SGMs.  We had a pre-order for the units and allowed people who were interested plenty of time to get their order in.  The units were then produced and shipped out to everyone who pre-ordered.  Nobody involved was trying to create an artificial scarcity. 

 

In an ideal world, yeah, you'd produce a ton of these in advance and make them available without doing pre-ordering, but these are expensive to produce and you're talking about a lot of money up front to make that happen.

 

 ..Al

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13 minutes ago, MrPix said:

Since the SGM only has a perceived value and not a market value, adding other sellers allows the market to decide what the item is worth. There is some value in the SGM. There is a separate added value in the manuals and box. The manuals and box are the majority of the effort and value of the whole opcode SGM experience.

I am not a fan of the high prices and you will NEVER find me defending those prices.  I have publicly complained about pricing in general in "classic gaming" (not just colecovision and its various homebrew producers). So that is not where I am coming from here.

 

But what I have to ask you is what could be done about it?  As an engineer, what is your time worth?  Because if you do anything other than design and create a one time small run of an expansion module, this will basically become a part time job for you. You will have to maintain a website, layout money to buy parts, you will have to dedicate many hours to assembling, packaging and taking these packages to the PO or Fed-Ex and you will have to do this on a regular and ongoing basis.  At a minimum, you don't want to lose money or lay out a large part of your income buying parts and housing finished products and have them not sell.  Every hour you put into doing this is an hour away from your wife, your children, your church, your job, your hobbies etc. There are very real costs above and beyond the up-front material costs. Doing this on an ongoing basis is a much different proposition from doing this one time.

 

The simple fact of the matter is without high prices, none of this can exist.  I balk at paying $80 for a new Colecovision game, let alone the aftermarket ebay costs.  But the simple fact of the matter is, there is risk, there is cost and there are demands on your time, on your vehicle, on your computer equipment etc. In order to justify all this stuff, you have to be able to make some money and maybe take the wife out to dinner to keep her from bitching about the time not spent with her.

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2 hours ago, doubledown said:

Then what do you do when you make 500 copies of a game, and only 50 people buy that game...sit on 450 for a dozen years until new fans pop-up interested in buying them, or mark them down and break-even, or even sell them at a loss in an attempt to recoup some of the money.

That's an interesting point.

With a game cartridge, there are mutable and immutable elements. The mutable elements are the PCB, ROM, and plastic case. They can be aimed at any final game cartridge. Programming can be done on demand. So you could have a generic batch of, say, 1,000 carts (a $10,000 investment or so), take a set of pre-orders on multiple games until you have orders enough to cover those costs, and start making them dedicated by programming and labeling the carts to the specific game.

Then there are the immutable parts. A DK manual or box will only ever be a DK manual or box. For many collectors, the quality and condition of the box and manual are a matter of great importance - as important or more so than the gameplay itself.

Then there are the consumables. The protection and packaging used for shipping.

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

At work we deal with a metal fabricator, and if I want him to make 1 of something for me, it's $100...but if I tell him I want 5, then they come down to $20 ea., so still a total of $100, but now I get 5 of them.  I would assume that some of this rings true in this world with custom printed labels, manuals, boxes and the likes.  If CollectorVision, Opcode, Team Pixelboy were to say that any of their games were available at any time, and 1 person orders this 1 game, how much would it cost to make only 1 of these games at a time?

Imagine a situation where you move to a different town, and you've only lived there for a couple of years, but you go to the local metal fabricator and he refuses to do work for you, because he has done work for one of your competitors. I have tried for several months to buy plastic cartridge shells and none of the people who have or make them will supply them. It's not even for a game cartridge, but for a wifi cartridge. My response is to invest to have my own mold made (it's a few thousand dollars) and then make up the shortfall for anyone else in my position.

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

For me with building controllers, I know I can get little price breaks when I order quantities of items, for example saving 6% when I buy 50 enclosures versus just 1 or 2, but then I'm sitting on $2500 worth of enclosures that may or may not get used or sold, not to mention all the room they would take up.  In this

instance, the $3 per unit savings, really isn't worth it.

I've seen your controllers. They're amazing. Solid bespoke controllers of the highest quality. I am working on a controller, but it is a re-imagining of the standard controller. I decided to do that because I saw the market was being served well for people who want what you make. What you charge represents and is linked to the actual time and effort and materials and design cost, plus experience, that went into making it.

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

Also for me, I like making new hardware designs, versus simply re-making previous ones.  From a business-model standpoint, this is not what you want to do...as you want to spend the R&D time and money once, then simply reproduce the work that has already been done.  But I find this boring, as I like to flex my creative brain muscles apparently.  Then there is always the collectability of something.

It seems we're the same way. My "batch 2" always fixes some things from 1, and 3 from 2. Or I add a feature, or respond to customer feedback. As my initial development costs are amortized to nothing, I remove some of those costs from the selling price. If components get more expensive or harder to get, I just keep the price the same. Most of these changes are in response to my desire to iteratively improve things, but also my mental unhappiness with resting on my laurels.

2 hours ago, doubledown said:

If when it was sold, it was limited to X number of examples, which people bought with that in mind, and now it's being reproduced...how should those original buyers feel.  Yes you can always change some aspect of the item to differentiate it from the original run to later runs, but it still cheapens/lessens the original run if others are made later.  With my custom controllers...if I didn't do my own machining, artwork design, and printing, I guarantee that I wouldn't have as many different styles/editions/versions available...as it would simply be way to expensive for all of these crazy one-offs...and what kind of world would that be...I'll tell you, a world I wouldn't want to live in!  😃

Ah. Bickerstaffe Syndrome.

We all think the things we make are somehow special. Our attention to detail. The over engineering. Those careful design tweaks that come from years of experience. We think if someone else comes along and makes something that looks like ours but sells it for less, it somehow devalues our work. It doesn't. you know that item was made thinner, lighter, of cheaper components, or sacrifices elsewhere. If your customers held one of those, they'd know it wasn't yours. It's your attention to detail and quality that differentiates your products. And that's the best value adder of all.

Now, if someone could make exactly what you were making to the same quality, fit and finish and sell it for less...

What I can be sure of with my compatible is that the board will certainly be of higher quality than opcode's, the case will be of lower quality which will be compensated for by a crisper design and lower cost, and I'm not including a manual or fancy box but just a single sheet that says "this does this, that does that, no, don't plug that in there!"

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This is a loop discussion that isn't going anywhere, thus useless.. Dozens of suggestions were made, he is ignoring. The original proposition was a price war on a clone for revenge, which morphed into a super device that no one really cared, and back to the clone for price war, which he is now trying to argue the merits of again. So I would say this is it, he doesn't want to help, he has made his mind. 

 

I have better things to do, out of here.

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1 hour ago, christo930 said:

There is no way the cartridge shells are being made in such small runs.  The major expense in cartridge shells is the molds which were acquired long ago and the storage.  But 1000 shells could be kept in a single box and there are several people who all need cartridges who would vastly drop the per-cartridge cost by combining orders every couple of years (obviously there are limits to how many you can keep in your house or office between runs)

I am addressing this. I'm having my own molds made, and will be ordering from a company that partners with mine (we refer work to each other) so I can get smaller batches made (probably 250 at a time) at the same cost as others might get for 2,000 qty batches. I expect to sell NONE of these to people like opcode and pixelboy, etc. because they have their own suppliers. Which is fine. While prototyping my wifi cart, I'm using carbon infused 3D printing - it looks very unique and is stronger than the injection molded ABS, even though the technical quality is lower.

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

Print labels with an ink printer with no manual or box sold as budget models.  Now, I don't know how feasible it is to have an erpom burners (and if 32K or 64K etc eproms are still available and I don't know if the game runs are using ROMs and not EPROMS) and boards which can work with eproms on hand  for "on demand" budget releases.  But given what I have heard about the income generated by this endeavor, it is simply not feasible to keep a large inventory of full releases with 4 color boxes manuals and labels of all the games.  OTOH, I don't know how many people would want a budget release without the 4 color professionally printed box, manual and label.  I know I would, but I don't know how many care. Of course, people who like boxes and manuals could also buy a budget release to play and keep their boxed version boxed.

I have a full color dye sub printer that prints polymer labels that can have very nice finishes. High gloss. Metallic. Brushes metal finishes. It can print labels of such high quality they're commercial ready. The printer costs about $300 and the labels work out about 50 cents each. It's the same price as having labels professionally made, has equal results, and can be done on a one off basis.


As for EPROMs, I recently bought a stock of 650 new 32K EPROMs to fulfill an order for Pixelboy:
1244467875_IMG_2190(1).thumb.jpeg.6a51034e18c2042c551f920af808c3df.jpeg 
He cancelled that order, in solidarity with opcode. This made me quite happy as a neighboring business saw my stash and offered me five times the value of his entire order just for the EPROMs and they're now rehomed. That said, I do have another batch of 650 on the way, and 650 cart PCBs with no home to go to, so I have several thousand dollars of company funds tied up in those. I can be sure the PCBs will never find a home, so I will likely shred them and write them down for the tax write off.

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

The economics are already hard.

IF I were running opcode's business, which I am not, the only unidentified expenses are the time spent porting games, and the costs spent on R&D. That said, opcode's margin on the SGM, if he's doing it efficiently, is likely 400% to 600%. Of course, he'd claim he was barely making a profit. I'm generally happy with 250% return on costs. My costs for an SGM compatible are under $10. I could easily afford to supply an opcode-level box/manual for $45. If opcode can't, he isn't running his business efficiently. If he can, he's price-gouging the market.

The notion that people can say "well, other markets work normally, but the CV market is different. We have unwritten agreements with each other to not compete" is literally saying "we conspire with each other to control the market and limit access to outsiders by dividing it among ourselves, and we're just super pleased nobody has called the FTC or a state's Attorney General yet." And now it's in writing and screen-capped...

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31 minutes ago, opcode said:

This is a loop discussion that isn't going anywhere, thus useless.. Dozens of suggestions were made, he is ignoring. The original proposition was a price war on a clone for revenge, which morphed into a super device that no one really cared, and back to the clone for price war, which he is now trying to argue the merits of again. So I would say this is it, he doesn't want to help, he has made his mind. 

 

I have better things to do, out of here.

Excellent. Be gone!

I have only once before have someone be so rude as to tell me what I'm thinking, what my motivations are, what I'm saying...

Apparently me "ignoring suggestions" is a character flaw but you "ignoring suggestions" is a god given right.

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6 minutes ago, MrPix said:

Excellent. Be gone!

I have only once before have someone be so rude as to tell me what I'm thinking, what my motivations are, what I'm saying...

Apparently me "ignoring suggestions" is a character flaw but you "ignoring suggestions" is a god given right.

 

I don't have to tell you, you wrote your intentions in your first post. As for ignoring suggestions, I hardly ask for any. And yet, I get unsolicited PM job requests from time to time...

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1 hour ago, Albert said:

This is not true, the two batches we sold through AtariAge were in the hundreds, between those two runs we shipped over 600 SGMs.  We had a pre-order for the units and allowed people who were interested plenty of time to get their order in.  The units were then produced and shipped out to everyone who pre-ordered.  Nobody involved was trying to create an artificial scarcity. 

 

In an ideal world, yeah, you'd produce a ton of these in advance and make them available without doing pre-ordering, but these are expensive to produce and you're talking about a lot of money up front to make that happen.

I'm going by opcode's own words - as this is where I read this:
74757663_ScreenShot2020-07-01at12_35_28PM.thumb.png.0d2f538385a2413513d04c819f298938.png

If they shipped them through a third party (ColecoVision Fan) that would muddy the issue even more.

I'm putting up money to make a batch, and can make run on batches on demand. I'll happily invest $15,000 or $20,000 into a long and continuous run of SGM compatibles with a couple of extra features for product differentiation. And that's just one product. I'll invest similar sums into a set of other products for the CV and Adam too.

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At this point now you are just grabbing things out of context to wrap your own narrative around them. 
 

I’m going to issue one more warning to everyone in this thread. 
 

If the bickering back and forth doesn’t stop, this thread will be closed. 
 

If you want to create a new or cloned piece of hardware for the community, do it without the dramatics. 
 

We’ve had enough drama over the years and it will end right now. 
 

Understood? 

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2 minutes ago, MrPix said:

I'm going by opcode's own words - as this is where I read this:
74757663_ScreenShot2020-07-01at12_35_28PM.thumb.png.0d2f538385a2413513d04c819f298938.png

If they shipped them through a third party (ColecoVision Fan) that would muddy the issue even more.

I'm putting up money to make a batch, and can make run on batches on demand. I'll happily invest $15,000 or $20,000 into a long and continuous run of SGM compatibles with a couple of extra features for product differentiation. And that's just one product. I'll invest similar sums into a set of other products for the CV and Adam too.

I don't recall the specifics, but I think we had some extra SGMs available after satisfying the pre-orders for that batch.  The ColecoVision Fans Facebook group had nothing to do with this at all.  Great that you can invest $15K - $20K up front, but not everyone can afford to do that.

 

 ..Al

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2 minutes ago, MrPix said:

I'm going by opcode's own words - as this is where I read this:
74757663_ScreenShot2020-07-01at12_35_28PM.thumb.png.0d2f538385a2413513d04c819f298938.png

If they shipped them through a third party (ColecoVision Fan) that would muddy the issue even more.

I'm putting up money to make a batch, and can make run on batches on demand. I'll happily invest $15,000 or $20,000 into a long and continuous run of SGM compatibles with a couple of extra features for product differentiation. And that's just one product. I'll invest similar sums into a set of other products for the CV and Adam too.

 

So now you are trying to imply that Opcode, AtariAge, and ColecoVision Fan are all together on this to create artificial scarcity?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, opcode said:

As I indicated, I am taking care of that. In addition to the 1200 SGM already out there, plus all the Phoenix, I am doing enough SGM in this run to supply all the pre-orders so far and a surplus for next year. Same for Gradius. The ideia is to have those in stock for anyone to buy. I don’t think we have a problem of supply right now. 

Yes! I have mine preordered and will be buying another one I am sure down the road so this is great to hear! Yes the box, instructions and the details matter and are worth every penny. Opcode(Ed) makes an excellent product and I for one am appreciative of his work and have no problem whatsoever with the price. In 1983 I paid 200.00 for a Colecovision which is equal to 515.00 in today's money and I was only a kid(mowed lawns all summer), so for a grown man to pay 90 dollars for a very detailed well crafted product, come on this is nothing. I want to thank you Ed for all you have already done and plan to do for the community and my support is for Opcode SGM period. Peace. 

 

Edited by crisalan44
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2 minutes ago, opcode said:

So now you are trying to imply that Opcode, AtariAge, and ColecoVision Fan are all together on this to create artificial scarcity?

I thought you checked out of the convo. You're not very good at keeping your promises, but then nor am I ;)

I think opcode is doing it, 100%. AtariAge is literally just a storefront/web shop and has no control over what vendors are willing to sell. I don't know what ColecoVision Fan's role in that transaction was, or their motivations.

 

4 minutes ago, TPR said:

At this point now you are just grabbing things out of context to wrap your own narrative around them. 
 

I’m going to issue one more warning to everyone in this thread. 
 

If the bickering back and forth doesn’t stop, this thread will be closed. 
 

If you want to create a new or cloned piece of hardware for the community, do it without the dramatics. 
 

We’ve had enough drama over the years and it will end right now. 
 

Understood? 

TPR, honestly, you're a terrible moderator. You're not neutral, and have admonished me repeatedly. You've f-d and threatened and been rude and dismissive. You have not admonished anyone else in this thread for any of the outlandish claims or accusations they have made. I haven't insulted, abused or threatened anyone. I follow a Be Nice, Be Respectful rule in my entire life. As an admin and mod elsewhere, I would never, EVER speak to people I was moderating as rudely as you have. I have continuously tried to answer questions, dispel myths and cite exactly where I am getting my information from. I realized going in that it is essential to opcode that this be controversial. But controversy by itself is not an offense on AA.

If you wish to close the thread, do so. I'll take my dozen or so private messages of support as solace. And I'll note publicly that you have taken several moderator actions against many people who had threads closed or who were banned from the site, simply for being inconvenient to opcode. The only common theme of these bannings where people made statements opcode didn't like, opcode turned the threads into drama, and you swung the axe. Are you a mod who answers to private interests? They're certainly not AtariAge's interests, which are for rich and vibrant communities with good and broad economic activity.

At the end of the day, AA is a private forum. I don't have a right of free speech here, and I can be silenced or removed at your whim. And your doing so simply reinforces my observation for all to see.


But I have done nothing wrong. I have brought no drama. I have posted my intent and goals and reasoning ad nauseam, and this offends opcode, and you are his minion.


In fact, I am counting on it.

14 minutes ago, Albert said:

I don't recall the specifics, but I think we had some extra SGMs available after satisfying the pre-orders for that batch.  The ColecoVision Fans Facebook group had nothing to do with this at all.  Great that you can invest $15K - $20K up front, but not everyone can afford to do that.

 

 ..Al


Al, I understand this is your site. I'm sorry this subject is controversial. Truly I am. I just want to make my thing, release a new open hardware product, and relieve a bit of strain that negatively affects several members of the community. I am even open to it being sold continuously though your site, along with several other items I have or am developing. This is the only one that's controversial, and it's only controversial because opcode claims to own the rights to something made in the 80s by Coleco, in the 90s by others several times, and just most recently by him.

He has a strong internal dialog that, despite my offer to work with him, I am out for revenge (I truly don't know for what back when he first made this claim, but since then it has a little become a self fulfilling prophesy because I have built up a little contempt for him and his implied threats, accusations and attributions of malice. I really don't care about it enough to deal with him though. 

I just want to do my thing - which is genuinely my thing, legal, and has been cleared for me by an IP lawyer.

If anything, I'm more concerned about the behavior of your mod TPR. I've said my piece above, and I acknowledge he has a job to do. I would be grateful if you'd read the thread including his moderation statements in it and wonder about his fairness, demeanor and intent. I recognize you've known him for a long time, and he's probably a good friend of yours, but what's going on here is not normal. I've read some of his regular posts and he seems like generally a nice and constructive guy, but whenever it comes to an opcode issue, he turns into a vengeful mod with an agenda.

I'd really not like to be banned simply for the crime of being articulate.

If you would like to PM me, I'd be happy to discuss this matter with you, answer any questions or follow any rules or guidelines you set.

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48 minutes ago, MrPix said:

That said, opcode's margin on the SGM, if he's doing it efficiently, is likely 400% to 600%

If you're not going to give a good faith hearing (and by good faith I mean believing what they say at face value and not reading deception into what they say), then it is completely pointless to discuss it.   Because at that point, it's really just your opinion of what you think and nothing they say can ever change your mind.  That's fine and all, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you believe a party to a conversation is going to lie when answering questions or otherwise engaging in the conversation, there is really no point in having the conversation.  If you think someone is a liar, talking is pointless.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, crisalan44 said:

Yes! I have mine preordered and will be buying another one I am sure down the road so this is great to hear! Yes the box, instructions and the details matter and are worth every penny. Opcode(Ed) makes an excellent product and I for one am appreciative of his work and have no problem whatsoever with the price. In 1983 I paid 200.00 for a Colecovision which is equal to 515.00 in today's money and I was only a kid(mowed lawns all summer), so for a grown man to pay 90 dollars for a very detailed well crafted product, come on this is nothing. I want to thank you Ed for all you have already done and plan to do for the community and my support is for Opcode SGM period. Peace. 

And I 100% support this. I do think he makes an excellent product. I think it's priced about $15 high, personally, but $90 isn't stratospheric. 

It's the funniest thing. Someone PMd me and asked, "If opcode simply released a bare bones SGM for $45 would you go away?"

No. Because it really is about extending the utility of the device and driving innovation. I don't want to harm his business. Doing so would be foolish to me as an SGM-compatible seller. I want to make it easier and cheaper for people to be able to access his games catalog. Mostly, because of Pixelboy - I wanted to increase access to his catalog because he struck me as good people.

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2 minutes ago, MrPix said:

TPR, honestly, you're a terrible moderator. You're not neutral, and have admonished me repeatedly. You've f-d and threatened and been rude and dismissive. You have not admonished anyone else in this thread for any of the outlandish claims or accusations they have made. I haven't insulted, abused or threatened anyone. I follow a Be Nice, Be Respectful rule in my entire life. As an admin and mod elsewhere, I would never, EVER speak to people I was moderating as rudely as you have. I have continuously tried to answer questions, dispel myths and cite exactly where I am getting my information from. I realized going in that it is essential to opcode that this be controversial. But controversy by itself is not an offense on AA.

If you wish to close the thread, do so.

I’m so done with you and your attitude. Thread closed. 

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