Strange hue in Lode Runner.

[Lauren Tyler]

I've noticed my screen has a reddish hue somewhat when I play.  Is that normal?

[JR>]

It could be a bad power supply, or maybe you just need to adjust the color pot.  A lot more information than you have given would be necessary to make a more informed diagnosis.....

 

computer type, monitor type, only this game or others, did this just star suddenly, how is the monitor connected....composite, svideo, rf...???

[Mclaneinc]

Also, PAL or NTSC....I'm not familiar what the Ragol System uses...I'm presuming NTSC...Lauren is used more by Americans iirc..

 

On PAL systems its more of a purple hue..

[Atari Nut]

Can we see a pic?  Also, what version is it?

[leech]

It also depends on the version of Lode Runner.  I think I tried 4 different Lode Runners on the Atari, and all of them have various colors.  Some use NTSC Artifacting (which might be what you're seeing) and others do not use that (so look fine on the VBXE output).

[gilsaluki]

Ok, this got me to wondering what color(s) should be displayed in the XE version.  Last night I played it and the background was the muddy reddish color with blue-ish platforms.  I adjusted my set to get background darker, almost black.  The platform was now green.   I just YOUTUBED it and found many variations.  I just wonder if I am chasing my tail trying to adjust the color and tint on my tube.

[leech]

18 minutes ago, gilsaluki said:

Ok, this got me to wondering what color(s) should be displayed in the XE version.  Last night I played it and the background was the muddy reddish color with blue-ish platforms.  I adjusted my set to get background darker, almost black.  The platform was now green.   I just YOUTUBED it and found many variations.  I just wonder if I am chasing my tail trying to adjust the color and tint on my tube.

Pretty sure it's supposed to be reddish brick with blue platforms and white ladders?  But yeah, even the c64 had a blue brick version.

[gilsaluki]

What are the bricks?  The platform=bricks?  What the laser carrying guy walks on.

[leech]

https://www.mobygames.com/game/lode-runner/screenshots

 

Yeah, the stuff you destroy that is brick like.  Ha, the screenshots on Moby games is purple for the 8bit... I think the C64 screenshots there are probably the most accurate?  But for sure depending on which version you are running on the A8, the colors are different.  Some require the artifacting, some do not.  Seems that Loderunner is one of those games that had a ton of different releases.  Even as you can see on that link, all the platforms seem to use their own colors...

[gilsaluki]

1 minute ago, leech said:

https://www.mobygames.com/game/lode-runner/screenshots

 

Yeah, the stuff you destroy that is brick like.  Ha, the screenshots on Moby games is purple for the 8bit... I think the C64 screenshots there are probably the most accurate?  But for sure depending on which version you are running on the A8, the colors are different.  Some require the artifacting, some do not.  Seems that Loderunner is one of those games that had a ton of different releases.  Even as you can see on that link, all the platforms seem to use their own colors...

The one pictured on Mobygames is a really early release (1983).  The XE carts must have updated the code.  The XE version looks cleaner (the Bricks).  I guess it really doesn't matter what color they are.  Back to the original question "should the background be red-ish?).  It depends.

[gilsaluki]

 

[leech]

6 hours ago, gilsaluki said:

 

I was going to buy an XE cart version of the game, but the ones currently on fleabay are all NIB and pricey because of it (I have just been collecting loose carts for the XE).

[Faicuai]

On 6/29/2020 at 8:57 PM, Lauren Tyler said:

I've noticed my screen has a reddish hue somewhat when I play.  Is that normal?

Correct.

 

Cart-version (artifacted with purplish / reddish background) and Broderbund disk-based with does not rely on artifacting, and runs at a lower resolution, both on NTSC:

 

 

[Jetboot Jack]

3 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Broderbund disk-based with does not rely on artifacting, and runs at a lower resolution, both on NTSC:

I beg to differ - the Broderbund original is 100% colors by artifacting in the play area - it just has a black backdrop. 

 

There is a HACK that uses Antic E so you get a 160 horizontal resolution and 4 non artifacted colors on screen...

 

sTeVE

[bandit]

I found my original lode runner disk, and it has red back ground on both 800 and 1200xl, the later release has black,

there is no version number, both has 83 date both using CRT 1702 and 1084.

 

I took pictures , will need to downsize them if you want to view them.

 

 

[Jetboot Jack]

1 hour ago, bandit said:

I found my original lode runner disk, and it has red back ground on both 800 and 1200xl, the later release has black,

there is no version number, both has 83 date both using CRT 1702 and 1084.

 

I took pictures , will need to downsize them if you want to view them.

 

 

 

But they are all in mode 8 and so artifacted, not mode E 4 color (Ralf Bertenburg hack)...

 

I wonder if that red is purple on XL/XE?

 

sTeVE

 

[Faicuai]

12 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said:

I beg to differ - the Broderbund original is 100% colors by artifacting in the play area - it just has a black backdrop. 

 

There is a HACK that uses Antic E so you get a 160 horizontal resolution and 4 non artifacted colors on screen...

 

sTeVE

You are correct about that Antic-E total-hack. 

 

But what is interesting is that, in my library, I found multiple versions, but NONE are artifacted with black-background.

 

Do you have a link to that version?

[Faicuai]

3 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said:

 

But they are all in mode 8 and so artifacted, not mode E 4 color (Ralf Bertenburg hack)...

 

I wonder if that red is purple on XL/XE?

 

sTeVE

 

FYI, once properly calibrated, there does not seem to be any significant hue-difference between 800, 800XL, etc.

 

All mostly purplish with a hint of red, on NTSC.

 

That is what I am seeing on my 800 and 800XLs, now that I had a look at all the versions I have here.

 

[gilsaluki]

4 hours ago, Faicuai said:

FYI, once properly calibrated, there does not seem to be any significant hue-difference between 800, 800XL, etc.

 

All mostly purplish with a hint of red, on NTSC.

 

That is what I am seeing on my 800 and 800XLs, now that I had a look at all the versions I have here.

 

Thanks for that.  purplish with a hint of red is what I was getting on my XEGS. 

[+DrVenkman]

8 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said:

 

But they are all in mode 8 and so artifacted, not mode E 4 color (Ralf Bertenburg hack)...

 

I wonder if that red is purple on XL/XE?

 

sTeVE

 

If you want to drop down a (sometimes rambunctious) rabbit hole, search the entire AA forum (not just the A8 forum but also the game console forums) for posts from from people like @Bryan, @phaeron and @Trebor discussing Atari color palettes, display technologies (CRT versus LCD/LED), computer/console/display warm up time, and how all of these factors - and others, like 400/800 vs. XL/XE differences - affect displayed colors from our systems. 

[leech]

16 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

If you want to drop down a (sometimes rambunctious) rabbit hole, search the entire AA forum (not just the A8 forum but also the game console forums) for posts from from people like @Bryan, @phaeron and @Trebor discussing Atari color palettes, display technologies (CRT versus LCD/LED), computer/console/display warm up time, and how all of these factors - and others, like 400/800 vs. XL/XE differences - affect displayed colors from our systems. 

It totally is a rabbit hole too.  For example this is one I loaded up with the Atari800 emulator in Linux (with Artifacting enabled). and you get the purple background with red brick (with artifacting off, you get black and white). 

Lode Runner II.atr

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, leech said:

It totally is a rabbit hole too.  For example this is one I loaded up with the Atari800 emulator in Linux (with Artifacting enabled). and you get the purple background with red brick (with artifacting off, you get black and white). 

Lode Runner II.atr 90.02 kB · 1 download

The background is spot-on! 

Essentially identical to what I see on my 800s and 800XLs.

 

The red-foreground is due to use of odd vs. even horizontal-alignment / spacing of black-and-white patterns. ODD-spaced gives one color and EVEN-spaced gives another, which should be ORANGE-reddish or BLUE (don't remember the order). The former will look a lot more reddish (with a purple-background overlay), just as also seen in IDSI's Pool (one of the finest-physics I've ever seen rendered on high-res mode).

 

(UPDATE);

 

I would strongly recommend the attached .BAS utility to verify basic color reproduction (and calibration) on ANY A8 NTSC system. Get to "Color Bars (non-standard)" and you will be able to toggle between your on-screen color rendition and the NAMES / DESCRIPTION of what each bar should actually look.

 

Of prime importance is Bar #2 ("Gold"), followed by Bar 3 (Red), and Bar 5 (Blue). Your greens should come out close enough to the green-gamut that it describes:

 

tvadjust.bas

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Faicuai

[leech]

14 hours ago, Faicuai said:

The background is spot-on! 

Essentially identical to what I see on my 800s and 800XLs.

 

The red-foreground is due to use of odd vs. even horizontal-alignment / spacing of black-and-white patterns. ODD-spaced gives one color and EVEN-spaced gives another, which should be ORANGE-reddish or BLUE (don't remember the order). The former will look a lot more reddish (with a purple-background overlay), just as also seen in IDSI's Pool (one of the finest-physics I've ever seen rendered on high-res mode).

 

(UPDATE);

 

I would strongly recommend the attached .BAS utility to verify basic color reproduction (and calibration) on ANY A8 NTSC system. Get to "Color Bars (non-standard)" and you will be able to toggle between your on-screen color rendition and the NAMES / DESCRIPTION of what each bar should actually look.

 

Of prime importance is Bar #2 ("Gold"), followed by Bar 3 (Red), and Bar 5 (Blue). Your greens should come out close enough to the green-gamut that it describes:

 

tvadjust.bas 9.83 kB · 5 downloads

 

I do find it amazing that the Atari800 emulator even looks like a blurry old TV when you enable artifacting.    Any other version of the artifacting it supports looks completely terrible on Lode Runner.

 

[leech]

On real hardware, first image is from an unmodded 800xl, second from unmodded 1200xl.

 

Edit: crap!  I plugged it into the other 1200xl with the SuperVideo mod, and since I had power to the Sdrive-Max (as my other 1200xl does not have the 5v mod) it made a screeching noise, and now the H/V hold is messed up on composite outpout!  (C/L output still looks amazing).

 

Time to take it apart and do some tracing...

 

Edit2 :  nope, I am just an idiot and forgot I had a switch to go between the two.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by leech

[Jetboot Jack]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:45 PM, Faicuai said:

You are correct about that Antic-E total-hack. 

 

But what is interesting is that, in my library, I found multiple versions, but NONE are artifacted with black-background.

 

Do you have a link to that version?

I will go and have a look - being UK based I may have PAL memories ?

 

sTeVE