Omega-TI Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 22 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said: The 7800 is nothing but a waste of solder and plastic, it shouldn't even have been planned. Bob sucks, Trebor is short a few cards in his deck and RevEng is a poser. That settles it, for now. Still, CPUWIZ boards are useless and Defender_2600 graphics suck as well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Still, CPUWIZ boards are useless and Defender_2600 graphics suck as well... Right, forgot many others posers as well, like batari, who can't solder himself out of a bathroom and those tone deaf guys, like tep and synthpop. Far too many to list, just throw the thing in a blender and make a video of it. Box it up first, so you can make an unboxing-will-it-blend video. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said: Far too many to list, just throw the thing in a blender and make a video of it. Box it up first, so you can make an unboxing-will-it-blend video. I will be satisfied only if the box has H seal ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 10 hours ago, CPUWIZ said: ...Trebor is short a few cards in his deck... I'm missing an entire suit. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 If *you're* missing an entire suit, I'm only playing with the two 'Joker' cards that everyone discards from a new deck. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 On 10/11/2020 at 8:18 PM, Keatah said: I often wondered why a POKEY wasn't in 7800. Was it again cost? A shame because I always preferred it above most other sound chips of the day. Including the venerable SID. The 7800 had fresh graphics in the form of MARIA, so why not fresh sound? Even in the age of PokeyOne, etc. it would be really nice to have a way to have a POKEY added to the 7800 permanently, thus allowing for cheaper sound-enhanced homebrews. I know @CPUWIZ once designed a board but IIRC he considers it too hard to install to make sense for most owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) On 10/28/2020 at 5:50 AM, Lord Thag said: The 7800 is a weird one. On one hand, the 8-bit line is better in many ways, on the other, it's MARIA/Sprite handling capabilities are superior. It's a step forward in terms of sprites and a step backwards in terms of sound and (often) cheap, quick ports. Had Atari included a POKEY or some other sound chip, taken the time to do quality ports, and not been giant cheap asses, I would be less on the fence in terms of 'historical necessity' even though I had one at launch and always really enjoyed a few games from the library. However, this doesn't take into account the modern Atariage homebrew library, particularly Bob's stuff. When you add in all of the incredibly good arcade ports and homebrews, especially the stuff you can get nowhere else like Pac Man collection, Baby Pac, Moon Cresta, Frenzy, Space Duel, Failsafe, Crystal Quest, Rikki and Vikki, and so on, I really do think the console becomes essential. It went from a console I'd drag out occasionally to play Desert Falcon, Xevious and Midnight Mutants on a couple of times a year to one of my go-to arcade port consoles I keep perpetually hooked up. Honestly, I think the 7800 is literally the only console in history where fans of the system have retroactively made the library twice as good as the original games made it. The programmers here have really shows what the console is/was capable of, had it gotten the support it deserved back in the 80s. I always had the feeling that the Atari 7800 hardware could be pushed to produce something really nice in different ways - but it'll take someone able to understand how it all works to see just what can the hardware do? And it would be nice to be able to work on some kind of project for this machine. What Can the Atari 7800 really do? Pushing the 7800 hardware... Sometimes when you really want to do something - it can eventually happen? Harvey Edited January 13, 2021 by kiwilove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Seriously my only real complaint about the 7800 is sound. As in the music and etc for games that run on it, it's terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, kiwilove said: I always had the feeling that the Atari 7800 hardware could be pushed to produce something really nice in different ways - but it'll take someone able to understand how it all works to see just what can the hardware do? And it would be nice to be able to work on some kind of project for this machine. What Can the Atari 7800 really do? Pushing the 7800 hardware... Sometimes when you really want to do something - it can eventually happen? Harvey Quote and respond to a post from ~3 months ago, to make similar statements from ~5 months ago, which was a rehash of an opinion ~3 weeks prior to that. The only thing that has really changed is the frequency of posting your opinion from several weeks to several months apart. This trip seems familiar. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Why is it SO common in most of these forums, for certain people to just expect a new groundbreaking bit of magic to be uncovered, making a 30 or 40 year old system perform like it was half the age? Jaguar forum every few months, someone expects "some untapped potential" to really "push the system to the limits" and make it perform like a Playstation or an N64. Hey - I know the 7800 has been out since 1984, but maybe by some wizardry, a game will just appear and show the machine was really as powerful as a SNES. It's bizarre and quite frankly, very annoying. I get it, people discover some new stuff over time and there are certainly impressive games / demos coming out for older systems. But man - there is no magic pill that will change a Model T into a modern Turbocharged Porsche. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, Stephen said: Hey - I know the 7800 has been out since 1984, but maybe by some wizardry, a game will just appear and show the machine was really as powerful as a SNES. Well, almost every new title Bob cranks out shows how versatile the platform really is/was, and Rikki & Vikki certainly broke some perceived barriers ... That said, this whole thread is the digital equivalent of our grandparents sitting on benches around the courthouse square or at a favorite table all morning at the meat-and-three, shooting the shit and rehashing the same old crap day after day ... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SmittyB Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: shooting the shit and rehashing the same old crap day after day ... ... But... And hear me out, what if the 7800 released in 1984? Don't hurt me 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 is the 7800 necessary? Yes, No, maybe so? If you like it: Yes If you don't like it: No I think it might be that simple of an answer. Maybe a better question would be "is the 2600 necessary if you have a 7800?"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 54 minutes ago, Stephen said: Why is it SO common in most of these forums, for certain people to just expect a new groundbreaking bit of magic to be uncovered, making a 30 or 40 year old system perform like it was half the age? Jaguar forum every few months, someone expects "some untapped potential" to really "push the system to the limits" and make it perform like a Playstation or an N64. Hey - I know the 7800 has been out since 1984, but maybe by some wizardry, a game will just appear and show the machine was really as powerful as a SNES. It's bizarre and quite frankly, very annoying. I get it, people discover some new stuff over time and there are certainly impressive games / demos coming out for older systems. But man - there is no magic pill that will change a Model T into a modern Turbocharged Porsche. Yes and No. The chances of finding some undocumented operating mode that can do things never thought possible is slim. But you can always push systems harder within the known specs. For instance, development tools sucked back in the day, as did art tools. Rom sizes were limited because of cost. Not to mention deadlines. Often games suffered more from lack of good art direction than they did from system limits. So today you can put together a homebrew game with much better art, more fluid animations (thanks to storage being cheap) and blow away the kinds of efforts we saw back in the day. Some people may see these and think "wow, new magic has been discovered". But it's really just the hardware being used better with the help of modern tools and talented programmers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 The 7800 is necessary. As necessary as air, or water, or heat in Winter. As necessary as food, or shelter. Unlike clothing, it is not optional. Without the 7800, there is no is. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 8 hours ago, Trebor said: Quote and respond to a post from ~3 months ago, to make similar statements from ~5 months ago, which was a rehash of an opinion ~3 weeks prior to that. The only thing that has really changed is the frequency of posting your opinion from several weeks to several months apart. This trip seems familiar. Time has passed since then. Back then I had no clear idea What the Atari 7800 hardware can really do? Pushing the 7800 hardware - how far can this be pushed... but a simple search can reveal some new information you have not seen before. I'm no programmer - I have no real understanding of how the Maria chip works - but I like to see what it can do, within it's limits. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, zzip said: So today you can put together a homebrew game with much better art, more fluid animations (thanks to storage being cheap) and blow away the kinds of efforts we saw back in the day. Some people may see these and think "wow, new magic has been discovered". But it's really just the hardware being used better with the help of modern tools and talented programmers. Edited January 14, 2021 by kiwilove Something along those lines... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Why the 7800? - lots of sprites on-screen (with multicolour as standard) - light-gun games - good comtrollers (European or RetroGameboyz) - many unique games, which frankly the 5200 couldn’t pull off: Sirius, Plutos, Midnight Mutants, Alien Brigade, Commando, etc - better overall graphics - an rich homebrew community providing games like Bentley Bear and PacMan Collection (21 mazes contra 1 on PacMan 5200), Rikki and Vikki, - all titles that are on both the 5200 and the 7800 looks better on the 7800 - you can play almost all 2600 games on the 7800 (I recommend BattleZone, Tunnel Runner and Radar Lock - - - And yes, I also enjoy my 5200 very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 @Drsoren24 Have taken on an interest in the 7800 after reading the posts on this thread, or are you still satisfied with ‘only’ the 5200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xefned Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 58 minutes ago, Giles N said: @Drsoren24 Have taken on an interest in the 7800 after reading the posts on this thread, or are you still satisfied with ‘only’ the 5200? No, you must have both. (Eventually.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, xefned said: No, you must have both. (Eventually.) They definitly sort of ‘overlap’ in function...and assortments if games. No ‘Pengo’ on 7800 No ‘Food Fight’ or ‘Ninja Golf’ on the 5200... Edited January 17, 2021 by Giles N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xefned Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Giles N said: They definitely sort of ‘overlap’ in function...and assortments if games. No ‘Pengo’ on 7800 No ‘Food Fight’ or ‘Ninja Golf’ on the 5200... Your bulleted list from earlier today is pretty compelling. Also b*nQ, and the best version of Choplifter on any home system, etc. Rikki & Vikki pushed me over the edge to buy a system I thought I'd never bother with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, xefned said: Your bulleted list from earlier today is pretty compelling. Also b*nQ, and the best version of Choplifter on any home system, etc. Rikki & Vikki pushed me over the edge to buy a system I thought I'd never bother with. Don't forget Baby Pac-Man. No other platform has that game, and it's also the first to receive a port of one of the hardest (and most unusual) Pac-Man sequels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 On 1/14/2021 at 4:27 AM, kiwilove said: It looks awesome. 7800basic or asm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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