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INTVCruise

Amiga 500 Mouse Required?

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Hello everyone, I just recieved an amiga 500 computer for the 1st time and was curious about something. I had done a little bit of reading about the system after I got it and thought I should load up workbench and see if it works. So i got that loaded but dont have a mouse and so I used the Amiga key and arrow keys to movr the cursor and that works well enough. I had read about a joystick being able to be used as a mouse and so i plugged one in and it only really moves diagonally if circle the dpad kind of like the ball on the bottom of a mouse. Holding a direction makes the cursor not move other then 1 pixel up or left, while typing this i assume that it is because the ball is probably moving some rods in the mouse at the same time and giving two values? Hence why moving the joystick quickly Like a circle works somewhat? Would this be the case, in that only a mouse in port 1 will nove the cursor appropriately. I tried joystick port 2 and got no response until i fired up tank platoon and can use joystick 2 to play the tank like a normal game. All help is appreciated as always! Thanks in advance!

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1 hour ago, 0078265317 said:

I am not sure.  Never used an amiga.  Maybe something like this will work.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-PS-2-to-Amiga-500-600-1200-2000-3000-4000-Mouse-Adapter-Converter-PS2-661/114281557840?hash=item1a9bb62f50:g:HwAAAOSweq9dD3-~

 

Then you can just use a standard mouse and hopefully get it up and running.

Hello, thanks for the reply, never used an amiga myself either until today haha. I see some information online about users plugging in joysticks to port 1 and then having to wriggle it around to get the cursor to move diagonally as well. Sounds like it could be normal? Hopefully someone can remember if that's the case.

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It is possible to use the Amiga without a mouse, just not recommended.  I have never used a joystick (and playing with one when plugged in produces no results for me,) but you can use a combination of the Amiga keys and the arrow keys.

 

I recommend you get a mouse.  It is a graphical interface, after all.  USB and PS/2 converters are cheap these days, much less than what I paid for my Cocolinos about 15 years ago.

 

Check out eBay or AmiBay, or AmigaKit, among others.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

It is possible to use the Amiga without a mouse, just not recommended.  I have never used a joystick (and playing with one when plugged in produces no results for me,) but you can use a combination of the Amiga keys and the arrow keys.

 

I recommend you get a mouse.  It is a graphical interface, after all.  USB and PS/2 converters are cheap these days, much less than what I paid for my Cocolinos about 15 years ago.

 

Check out eBay or AmiBay, or AmigaKit, among others.

Thank you for the reply, just wanted to be sure my amiga wasn't broken or something. Sounds like anything but an amiga mouse or a mouse with an adapter will cause the cursor to not move very much at all which is currently haplening when i use a joystick in port 1, normally reserved for the mouse when in workbench.

Edited by INTVCruise
Extra info

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Posted (edited)

The USB converters only work with specific types of mice.  You can save yourself a lot of trouble by getting a pre-prepared kit:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amiga-Atari-ST-NEW-Microsoft-Optical-USB-Mouse-with-Micro-Adapter/143247259043?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

I have these for both the Amiga and the ST and they work perfectly and are a massive upgrade on the original mice for these systems.

Edited by English Invader

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Yep, your theory is on the right track. The mouse uses a quadrature signal for the directions, so 2 overlapping pulse trains for horizontal, and 2 for vertical. The order of the pulses in each train (whether pulse A starts before pulse B or vice versa) determines the direction, and one pulse increments or decrements a hardware counter that corresponds to pixels of movement. The Amiga uses the up and left pins of the port for the vertical movement, and the down and right pins for the horizontal movement. This is why wriggling the joystick in a circle moves the pointer diagonally - it's incrementing both the horizontal and vertical counters one pixel at a time.

 

There is software you can use that translates joystick input into mouse input, but I'm not sure it works on OS 1.x (the default for the Amiga 500), as the input handling system was heavily upgraded for OS 2.0+ and much of that sort of thing depends on the newer OS calls.

 

Of course, things like using the keys, using drivers for non-native mice (serial or USB attached to relevant ports) or for joysticks to act as mice, all depend on the Amiga's OS running. Most games shut down the OS so they can bang the hardware directly, and as a result, bypass such methods meaning only a mouse (either native or non-native with a suitable adaptor) will work.

 

Any form of hardware adaptor will have limitations and will be unlikely to work with mice that deviate in any way from the standard protocols. PS/2 adaptors tend to work well with a majority of PS/2 mice. USB adaptors come in two varieties - ones that require a duel protocol USB / PS/2 mouse (since they're just PS/2 adaptors with a USB connector instead), and proper USB adaptors like the Rys, which work with standard HID-compliant USB mice. Bog standard mice are more likely to work than anything fancy, and if possible, try to get one that doesn't have too high a resolution. Back in the day, Amiga mice were in the 400-600DPI range - you can get mice around 10x that now, and these will prove difficult to use on the Amiga's low (in modern terms) screen resolution. Some adaptors compensate for this, others don't, so that's something to look for too.

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1 hour ago, Daedalus2097 said:

Yep, your theory is on the right track. The mouse uses a quadrature signal for the directions, so 2 overlapping pulse trains for horizontal, and 2 for vertical. The order of the pulses in each train (whether pulse A starts before pulse B or vice versa) determines the direction, and one pulse increments or decrements a hardware counter that corresponds to pixels of movement. The Amiga uses the up and left pins of the port for the vertical movement, and the down and right pins for the horizontal movement. This is why wriggling the joystick in a circle moves the pointer diagonally - it's incrementing both the horizontal and vertical counters one pixel at a time.

 

There is software you can use that translates joystick input into mouse input, but I'm not sure it works on OS 1.x (the default for the Amiga 500), as the input handling system was heavily upgraded for OS 2.0+ and much of that sort of thing depends on the newer OS calls.

 

Of course, things like using the keys, using drivers for non-native mice (serial or USB attached to relevant ports) or for joysticks to act as mice, all depend on the Amiga's OS running. Most games shut down the OS so they can bang the hardware directly, and as a result, bypass such methods meaning only a mouse (either native or non-native with a suitable adaptor) will work.

 

Any form of hardware adaptor will have limitations and will be unlikely to work with mice that deviate in any way from the standard protocols. PS/2 adaptors tend to work well with a majority of PS/2 mice. USB adaptors come in two varieties - ones that require a duel protocol USB / PS/2 mouse (since they're just PS/2 adaptors with a USB connector instead), and proper USB adaptors like the Rys, which work with standard HID-compliant USB mice. Bog standard mice are more likely to work than anything fancy, and if possible, try to get one that doesn't have too high a resolution. Back in the day, Amiga mice were in the 400-600DPI range - you can get mice around 10x that now, and these will prove difficult to use on the Amiga's low (in modern terms) screen resolution. Some adaptors compensate for this, others don't, so that's something to look for too.

Hello, thank you for the wonderful explanation, very much appreciated. What do you think about this Amiga mouse? https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOUSE-COMMODORE-AMIGA-NEW-MINT/130887232203?hash=item1e797caacb:g:LgYAAOxyuPtQ~X~n I literally just got the Amiga 500 earlier this week and have no idea what to expect about anything in terms of what is considered to be a good mouse etc. Thank you for your time :). 

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6 hours ago, amiman99 said:

Get something like this if you have PS2 mouse lying around.

https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=88&currency=USD

I have several Cocolinos and I can attest to their flexibility, even with bog-standard WB1.3 machines without the special driver.  Using the driver, Workbench 2.04 and above can make use of the third button and scroll wheel.

 

They are well worth the $20, and I paid about double that for mine.  PS/2 mouses are not difficult to come by, and I have used several Logitech and Microsoft optical and ball, as well as a trackball mouse.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, INTVCruise said:

Hello, thank you for the wonderful explanation, very much appreciated. What do you think about this Amiga mouse? https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOUSE-COMMODORE-AMIGA-NEW-MINT/130887232203?hash=item1e797caacb:g:LgYAAOxyuPtQ~X~n I literally just got the Amiga 500 earlier this week and have no idea what to expect about anything in terms of what is considered to be a good mouse etc. Thank you for your time :). 

That's not a bad mouse, pretty standard, but was cheaper back in the day. I guess there's a retro tax on it nowadays ;) I used one myself for many years, and still do occasionally. But my main Amiga now uses a bog standard Logitech PS/2 mouse through a KVM using a Micromys adaptor (similar to the Cocolino), and once you're used to the smoothness of an optical mouse, it's hard to go back to a ball mouse, especially at a high resolution like my main Amiga uses.

Edited by Daedalus2097

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On 7/19/2020 at 9:02 PM, amiman99 said:

I have the same mouse for my Amiga 1200 and it's a good mouse, but in my opinion, I little pricey at $60 if you add tax.

 

Get something like this if you have PS2 mouse lying around.

https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=88&currency=USD

 

So, what do you want to do with your A500, games? Applications?

Hello, yes I agree it is a little pricey, I do like authentic experiences though lol, but I'll probably get one of the adapted mice. What I would like would be some games, what would be the easiest way to play games on the machine, is there something like a zoomfloppy device for the 8-bit commodore computers or some way to play copies? Not too interested in applications, the computer came with about 10 games and a ton of applications I have no idea how to use. 

 

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On 7/20/2020 at 3:48 AM, OLD CS1 said:

I have several Cocolinos and I can attest to their flexibility, even with bog-standard WB1.3 machines without the special driver.  Using the driver, Workbench 2.04 and above can make use of the third button and scroll wheel.

 

They are well worth the $20, and I paid about double that for mine.  PS/2 mouses are not difficult to come by, and I have used several Logitech and Microsoft optical and ball, as well as a trackball mouse.

I think I have about 3 of the PS/2 style mice with the little 6 pin plugs lying around the house from old computers. So one of those should be compatible with the adapter or is there a chance they wont work? 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, INTVCruise said:

I think I have about 3 of the PS/2 style mice with the little 6 pin plugs lying around the house from old computers. So one of those should be compatible with the adapter or is there a chance they wont work? 

They all should work.

 

As far as playing games, get yourself a Gotek Floppy Emulator. If you are technically inclined, you can get cheap Gotek from China super cheap and flash the firmware yourself, or get one ready to go, but for much higher price.

I would recommend Gotek with LCD, so you can see names of the games you are selecting.

Load ADF games to USB drive and play.

 

Original game usually boots to directly to game when you insert the disk on boot. So, when the computer id off, insert the game, turn it on, game should boot.

To reset Amiga, press CTRL + Left Amiga Key + Right Amiga Key. Similar to DOS CTRL, ALT, DEL.

Edited by amiman99
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3 minutes ago, amiman99 said:

The all should work.

This.  At the very least, one of the three should work just fine.

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Posted (edited)

I use these with my Amigas (though my A3000 doesn't recognize it).  https://amigakit.amiga.store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=mouse+optical
 

Very high in DPI compared to an original Amiga mouse,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm

Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

Edited by RobertB

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Hey everyone, just got myself an original tank mouse. It was included in a lot of things I purchased. The left mouse button was kind of weak and so I went ahead and soldered in a new micro switch, works awesome now. I see the suggestions that everyone has made above, and I thank everyone for their time and replying. My next question is, in the meantime that I consider the GOTEK, I do have an older pc with a 3.5 inch floppy drive, and I was wondering if I could make copies of Amiga games to put onto a blank disk and then play on the amiga. If so what kind of tools would be required. The older pc has a cd drive, and usb slots so I could get whatever programs are needed for that. What I don't have is one of those cables to connect an amiga to it directly, which I saw is a way to transfer info to the amiga. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance! 

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PC drive will not work on Amiga, and PC drive can not make Amiga disks on PC. So, I would get Gotek in your case.

There is a way to get games to Amiga from PC, but you need to purchase a PC to Amiga cable here: https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=247&currency=USD

You also need to download the file here: http://main.aminet.net/package.php?package=comm/misc/PC2Am308.lha

And, you need to ask someone to make a Amiga disk for you, so you can boot from it, and some blank DD disks to copy games to.

If this is complicated then just get Gotek.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, amiman99 said:

PC drive will not work on Amiga, and PC drive can not make Amiga disks on PC. So, I would get Gotek in your case.

There is a way to get games to Amiga from PC, but you need to purchase a PC to Amiga cable here: https://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=247&currency=USD

You also need to download the file here: http://main.aminet.net/package.php?package=comm/misc/PC2Am308.lha

And, you need to ask someone to make a Amiga disk for you, so you can boot from it, and some blank DD disks to copy games to.

If this is complicated then just get Gotek.

 

Hey amiman99, thanks for the info, quick question, is it possible to write to floppy disks using the gotek? I also have 1 external floppy drive, not sure if that matters for copying purposes if at all possible I understand that it wouldn't be needed but I always like making the experience as authentic as possible. Thanks for your input!  

Edited by INTVCruise
Additonal Info added.

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You should be able to write disks from Gotek to external drive. There is also an adapter kit to convert Gotek to external drive here: https://www.sordan.ie/product/622/interface-cable-adapter---gotek-external-fdd-amiga-500-600-1200/

So you can keep your internal floppy drive and use Gotek an an DF1 and write disks to DF0

 

When you get Gotek drive, get the one with LCD, it's worth it.

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 3:19 AM, RobertB said:

I use these with my Amigas (though my A3000 doesn't recognize it).  https://amigakit.amiga.store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=mouse+optica

My mistake... I should have said the A4000 doesn't recognize it.

 

Truly,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm

Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

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