flickertail Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I've posted around about this through the different forums and on my blog, but my posts have been a little bit confusing. My friend David and I have developed a Bluetooth and USB adapter for retro consoles (MrBoehm), primarily targeting Atari consoles, but with potential for other consoles as well such as the Intellivision. Here is a video of it in action with a couple of 2600, 5200, & 7800 carts: This week we'll be sending the Gerber and BOM files to the PCB factory to have the development board manufactured. Attached is a rendering of the development board. The purpose of the BT/USB Adapter is to add modern BT/USB game controller (and keyboard/mosue) support to classic game consoles, but it can also be used to make controller mashups. For instance, based on my understanding of INTV controllers and the INTV ECM keyboard you could: Map two INTV controllers to two modern BT/USB gamepads If you have the ECM, you could map four INTV gamepads to four modern BT/USB gamepads Map the directional pad and the fire buttons of two INTV controllers to one BT/USB gamepad. Possibly good for a Robotron INTV homebrew were someone to make one. If you have the ECM you could map four INTV gamepads to two modern BT/USB gamepads. If you have the ECM you could map the ECM keyboard to a modern BT/USB keyboard (this would require use of all four MrBoehm ports) After chatting with @fdr4prez we added a couple of additional pin-to-switch routes on the PCB that will allow support for the Intellivision. Because of this, we also decided to add an external power source back into development board so we can support Intellivision development. I have ordered an INTV 2 from ebay to prepare for adding in INTV support. However, if you have a track record of controller and/or homebrew development for the Intellivision and would be interested in being a part of MrBoehm testing/development, PM me for access to one of two development boards I'm setting aside for the Intellivision. The adapter board also has a 16-pin expansion header for 1) the addition of more controller ports or 2) a custom I2C chip PCB for those interested in console modding. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMBerzerk Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 This sounds great! The only thing I'd say is that you should really get a Sears Intellivision unit. I say this because it is the only Intellivision unit that has controllers which unplug like the Inty II does. I don't think the Inty II controller is wired the same, so you would be limited to only the Inty II design. All of the original Intellivision units are wired the same, so using the Sears unit will cover the Mattel, GTE, Tandy and possibly even the Inty III and Super Pro unit as well...not sure on those. Just something to consider before you lock in the pinout design. I'd rather be limited to the original pinout layout than the Inty II as it just isn't the predominant Inty unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bhall408 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 10 hours ago, flickertail said: However, if you have a track record of controller and/or homebrew development for the Intellivision and would be interested in being a part of MrBoehm testing/development, PM me for access to one of two development boards I'm setting aside for the Intellivision. I'd really love to see/encourage someone to also do a BT/USB controller with numeric keypad for 5200/intellivision/coleco -- I'd expect it to look much like the NTT Data Controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, IMBerzerk said: This sounds great! The only thing I'd say is that you should really get a Sears Intellivision unit. I say this because it is the only Intellivision unit that has controllers which unplug like the Inty II does. I don't think the Inty II controller is wired the same, so you would be limited to only the Inty II design. All of the original Intellivision units are wired the same, so using the Sears unit will cover the Mattel, GTE, Tandy and possibly even the Inty III and Super Pro unit as well...not sure on those. Just something to consider before you lock in the pinout design. I'd rather be limited to the original pinout layout than the Inty II as it just isn't the predominant Inty unit. Not sure I'm entirely following. The magic, I think for these other variants would happen in the "conversion cables", which is really how we plan to map the 15-pin DSub ports to the INTV2 9-pin DSub ports. If the controller pin layout is different between these different versions of the INTV, then it would just require a different conversion cable. IDK, I'd have to learn more about those products. But if all I need to test all of these other variants is a Sears unit, then I will look into getting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bhall408 said: I'd really love to see/encourage someone to also do a BT/USB controller with numeric keypad for 5200/intellivision/coleco -- I'd expect it to look much like the NTT Data Controller. That is an interesting device. I've never seen that before. They did a good job packing buttons onto it. I'm be honest, since the Amico controllers have BT capability, I am interested in getting my hands on an Amico controller to see what it might take to support for it in the MrBoehm software. Because of that, I have an Amico system on pre-order. Edited July 21, 2020 by flickertail Added the bit about the Amico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bhall408 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, flickertail said: That is an interesting device. I've never seen that before. They did a good job packing buttons onto it. Yep - I'd LOVE a Bluetooth or USB adaptor for it. As a bonus, that would then also get you support for SNES controllers in general. This is the best controller I've found for playing Coleco games on the Collectorvision Phoenix (which supports it natively). No reason it could not also be adapted for Intellivision and Atari 5200, where it would rock on both! I got mine on eBay for around $30. They are widely/commonly available there. Almost all come from Japan, but at least pre-CV, shipping from Japan to California was very quick (3 or so days). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bhall408 said: Yep - I'd LOVE a Bluetooth or USB adaptor for it. As a bonus, that would then also get you support for SNES controllers in general. This is the best controller I've found for playing Coleco games on the Collectorvision Phoenix (which supports it natively). No reason it could not also be adapted for Intellivision and Atari 5200, where it would rock on both! The MrBoehm is not capable of converting classic controllers to bluetooth/usb, but rather it converts BT/USB devices to classic controllers. I apologize if that wasn't clear. Edited July 21, 2020 by flickertail edited for typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bhall408 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Just now, flickertail said: The MrBoehm is capable of capable of converting classic controllers to bluetooth/usb, but rather it converts BT/USB devices to classic controllers. I apologize if that wasn't clear. Yes, I realize that now. I initially thought it was both. An interesting idea for the future 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+fdr4prez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, IMBerzerk said: This sounds great! The only thing I'd say is that you should really get a Sears Intellivision unit. I say this because it is the only Intellivision unit that has controllers which unplug like the Inty II does. I don't think the Inty II controller is wired the same, so you would be limited to only the Inty II design. All of the original Intellivision units are wired the same, so using the Sears unit will cover the Mattel, GTE, Tandy and possibly even the Inty III and Super Pro unit as well...not sure on those. Just something to consider before you lock in the pinout design. I'd rather be limited to the original pinout layout than the Inty II as it just isn't the predominant Inty unit. 1 hour ago, flickertail said: But if all I need to test all of these other variants is a Sears unit, then I will look into getting one. No, that is not correct. The Intv2 is the standard pin out for all the DB9 connector console flavors, except for the Intellivision Flashback (which should not be bothered with since making a Intv FB to Intv2 cable is rather easy). The original console is an inline 9 pin, and that is the standard pin out for all consoles of that design. It is all shown in the previously provided link: http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web Archives/Deathskull (May-2006)/games/tech/intvcont.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+fdr4prez Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, fdr4prez said: The Intv2 is the standard pin out for all the DB9 connector console flavors, except for the Intellivision Flashback (which should not be bothered with since making a Intv FB to Intv2 cable is rather easy). Well, if you want to add support for the Intellivision Flashback pinout, then that is your call since it is your adapter board. The pinout for the adapter cable is shown here: Edited July 21, 2020 by fdr4prez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, bhall408 said: I'd really love to see/encourage someone to also do a BT/USB controller with numeric keypad for 5200/intellivision/coleco -- I'd expect it to look much like the NTT Data Controller. ... or look like this similar controller for the original Famicom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Lathe26 said: ... or look like this similar controller for the original Famicom. Well, I had hoped that this xbox add-on keyboard would have shown up as a bluetooth keyboard, but alas it didn't. If it had, it would have been super easy to map the 5200/INTV/ColecoVision controller to it. However, this other BT keyboard does work with the MrBoehm. Matching it up with the modern classic design, and you magically have a the appropriate controller for these classic systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 hours ago, flickertail said: Well, I had hoped that this xbox add-on keyboard would have shown up as a bluetooth keyboard, but alas it didn't. If it had, it would have been super easy to map the 5200/INTV/ColecoVision controller to it. However, this other BT keyboard does work with the MrBoehm. Matching it up with the modern classic design, and you magically have a the appropriate controller for these classic systems. Let me know if you have any general questions about Bluetooth HID. I literally worked on the BT-HID specification and my name is in it. Considering how far along the MrBoehm project is, assistance probably isn't necessary. Do you have support for the Original XBox controller and keyboard? I know the controllers use the XID protocol which is almost HID, but I'm not sure whether the XBox keyboard attachments were normal USB keyboards or used a custom XID keyboard protocol. Shouldn't be hard to figure out since the Original XBox really liked fixed-format packets (no HID descriptor parsing necessary). https://xboxdevwiki.net/Xbox_Input_Devices 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Lathe26 said: Let me know if you have any general questions about Bluetooth HID. I literally worked on the BT-HID specification and my name is in it. Considering how far along the MrBoehm project is, assistance probably isn't necessary. Does BT-HID include BLE? We want to add an phone app interface to the project. Could use some advice on how BLE works from time to time as that gets developed. There are probably a couple of other general BT related issues that we might need help on in the future as well. 10 hours ago, Lathe26 said: Do you have support for the Original XBox controller and keyboard? I know the controllers use the XID protocol which is almost HID, but I'm not sure whether the XBox keyboard attachments were normal USB keyboards or used a custom XID keyboard protocol. Shouldn't be hard to figure out since the Original XBox really liked fixed-format packets (no HID descriptor parsing necessary). https://xboxdevwiki.net/Xbox_Input_Devices I'm not sure what you mean by original controller. It's my understanding that the XBox One S controller is the first to support BT. No XBox specific keyboard support at the moment, but I believe most PC keyboards, both BT and USB work fine. I do have the XBox One S controller working with the MrBoehm using BT, but I haven't been able to get it to work using USB. Not sure if the XID issue is related to the USB problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, flickertail said: Does BT-HID include BLE? We want to add an phone app interface to the project. Could use some advice on how BLE works from time to time as that gets developed. There are probably a couple of other general BT related issues that we might need help on in the future as well. HID can run on top of BLE via a different pair of specs called HIDS and HOGP. Devices will always implement both specs, even if the packaging only lists one of them. Unfortunately, BLE came out after I left the Bluetooth SIG so I only know parts of it. 2 hours ago, flickertail said: I'm not sure what you mean by original controller. It's my understanding that the XBox One S controller is the first to support BT. No XBox specific keyboard support at the moment, but I believe most PC keyboards, both BT and USB work fine. I do have the XBox One S controller working with the MrBoehm using BT, but I haven't been able to get it to work using USB. Not sure if the XID issue is related to the USB problem. I said Original XBox controller and keyboard, as in the controller and keyboard for the Original XBox, as in the XBox that came out before the XBox 360. The Original XBox uses USB but with a goofy connector. It's controllers and keyboards use a HID-like protocol call XID. Adding support for these devices should theoretically be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Lathe26 said: I said Original XBox controller and keyboard, as in the controller and keyboard for the Original XBox, as in the XBox that came out before the XBox 360. The Original XBox uses USB but with a goofy connector. It's controllers and keyboards use a HID-like protocol call XID. Adding support for these devices should theoretically be easy. I think I understand now. I will see if I can get a hold of 360 controllers and keyboard for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, flickertail said: I think I understand now. I will see if I can get a hold of 360 controllers and keyboard for testing. Be aware that the XBox 360 keyboards are different from the keyboards for the Original XBox. The Xbox 360 keyboards use some kind of security that I don't know if anyone has figured out (they probably don't use the XID protocol either). The keyboards for the Original XBox don't has security and use XID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 I ordered a 360 controller and a 360 keyboard today. I'll try it out when it gets here and see where it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+fdr4prez Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 are you two on the same page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, fdr4prez said: are you two on the same page? LOL - I think we're on the same page. He suggested that I add support for the Xbox 360 controller, which only works with USB or a wireless-to-USB adapter. The 360 chatpad also requires a wireless-to-USB adapter. Knowing this, I realized why my Xbox One S chatpad wasn't working, because even though the XboxOneS is bluetooth, the chatpad for that model of controller also requires a wireless-to-USB adapter. Both chatpads come with this adapter, but I hadn't used it in so long I had forgotten that. And I see that there are a bunch of XID/HID issues, but I'll worry about that when xbox 360 controller/chatpad arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+fdr4prez Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 no, that wasn't my understanding in this order of posts: 19 hours ago, Lathe26 said: Do you have support for the Original XBox controller and keyboard? 4 hours ago, flickertail said: I will see if I can get a hold of 360 controllers and keyboard for testing. 52 minutes ago, Lathe26 said: Be aware that the XBox 360 keyboards are different from the keyboards for the Original XBox. The Xbox 360 keyboards use some kind of security that I don't know if anyone has figured out (they probably don't use the XID protocol either). The keyboards for the Original XBox don't has security and use XID. 49 minutes ago, flickertail said: I ordered a 360 controller and a 360 keyboard today. I'll try it out when it gets here and see where it goes. Lathe is asked about the original and you are talking about the 360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickertail Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, fdr4prez said: Lathe is asked about the original and you are talking about the 360 Yeah, you are right then, I guess we are not talking about the same thing. ?♂️ 1 hour ago, Lathe26 said: Be aware that the XBox 360 keyboards are different from the keyboards for the Original XBox. Sorry @Lathe26 my bad. I'll look into all three versions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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