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Omega-TI

T80XB/FCMD - Users question

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So you're using T80XB on your TIPI with the FCMD routines, so what version of Extended BASIC are you using with your Force Command setup and why?

 

FCMD-IMG.thumb.GIF.ae1b30638ca37118e434539bc5c066eb.GIF

 

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THUD!  No replies?  I'm kind of shocked to be honest.  I thought we all might learn something about these other versions of BASIC from their users and what they might have to offer us, especially in this unique useful configuration.  

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Also, was there a link someplace to all the start points (XBADDR=) variables?

 

There are so many different ones to try, apparently XBGEM_G is 12381 and TIXB_G is 25474 and ... but it would still be nice to have them all in one place.

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3 hours ago, Omega-TI said:

Also, was there a link someplace to all the start points (XBADDR=) variables?

 

There are so many different ones to try, apparently XBGEM_G is 12381 and TIXB_G is 25474 and ... but it would still be nice to have them all in one place.

It's on the GitHub for FC here

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1 hour ago, Vorticon said:

It's on the GitHub for FC here

Thanks!

 

table.thumb.JPG.01467345a7a0f1a9fef480152611d6f1.JPG

 

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Posted (edited)

RXB 2020 removes this silly NO MENU and MENU I was screamed at to install in RXB 2012 and RXB 2015

So normal XB address 25458 will work just like XB does in RXB 2020

 

The complaint of not being able to push a single key like space bar,  just like GK XB to bypass XB LOAD routine,  instead of having to wait was always silly to me.

You just pushed 2 to select XB or RXB so how much work is it to push another key like Space bar or invalid drive for LOAD program.....really is it that much work?

 

I did this to please people but even today it still sound kinda insane just for 2 complaints.

Edited by RXB

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Some people like myself are using RXB from Force Command now and want their programs to load up without any extraneous button presses to maintain continuity and flow.  I guess it's all a matter of perspective, want/needs.  

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Omega-TI said:

Some people like myself are using RXB from Force Command now and want their programs to load up without any extraneous button presses to maintain continuity and flow.  I guess it's all a matter of perspective, want/needs.  

So press 2 and Space Bar is to much effort? REALLY?

If no XB LOAD program is on DISK 2 then you can do 2 and 2 to get the same thing.

Or no XB LOAD program is on DISK Q that is the Q key below 2 key.

 

By the way a key press from RXB would be faster as it does not have to open a DSR to look for DISK 1 XB LOAD program, as it was bypassed so will actually

load FORCE COMMAND faster then XB does as it does not have to encounter error program.

 

But looking at the address Force Command is using I do not think it ever gets to that point does it? So it should works exactly the same as XB does.

Edited by RXB
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I always wondered if the menu could be integrated into the title screen instead of within XB.  

 

Anyway, the XB I use has the autoload edited to DSK5.LOAD so that the only time it auto-loads from DSK1 is if I really want it to do so, in which case I place a file on DSK5 called LOAD that is "RUN DSK1." (or whatever I want to autoload) to mimic the autoload sequence. Once done, I can delete or rename the file.

 

holding the keys and space is easy enough once in a while.  Start doing it 10s and 100s of times and it gets old quickly, IMHO.

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

I always wondered if the menu could be integrated into the title screen instead of within XB.  

 

Anyway, the XB I use has the autoload edited to DSK5.LOAD so that the only time it auto-loads from DSK1 is if I really want it to do so, in which case I place a file on DSK5 called LOAD that is "RUN DSK1." (or whatever I want to autoload) to mimic the autoload sequence. Once done, I can delete or rename the file.

 

holding the keys and space is easy enough once in a while.  Start doing it 10s and 100s of times and it gets old quickly, IMHO.

 

Hmm using RXB just press 5 and it loads DSK5.LOAD it gives you 6 seconds to do that.

There is no need to have a DISK 1 file named LOAD on DISK 1 that runs DSK5.LOAD if you use RXB, this would save you a step you are taking.

Or if you have a RAM DISK just press A for DSKA.LOAD 

Or press 0 (ZERO) and it loads WDS1.LOAD from hard drives and this works with SCSI, WDS or IDE controllers.

 

If you do nothing RXB will search all drives 1 to 9 for LOAD and run it. So you could also wait for it to find DSK5.LOAD

either way your argument sounds more like a personal preference then factually more easy.

You are actually taking more steps your way in the log run.

Funny if you press 2 for RXB and do nothing it will find LOAD on a drive and run it.

No key press needed, of course takes longer the farther up drives it has to search for LOAD.

Edited by RXB
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8 minutes ago, RXB said:

Hmm using RXB just press 5 and it loads DSK5.LOAD it gives you 6 seconds to do that.

There is no need to have a DISK 1 file named LOAD on DISK 1 that runs DSK5.LOAD if you use RXB, this would save you a step you are taking.

Or if you have a RAM DISK just press A for DSKA.LOAD 

Or press 0 (ZERO) and it loads WDS1.LOAD from hard drives and this works with SCSI, WDS or IDE controllers.

 

If you do nothing RXB will search all drives 1 to 9 for LOAD and run it. So you could also wait for it to find DSK5.LOAD

either way your argument sounds more like a personal preference then factually more easy.

You are actually taking more steps your way in the log run.

Funny if you press 2 for RXB and do nothing it will find LOAD on a drive and run it.

No key press needed, of course takes longer the farther up drives it has to search for LOAD.

No.  You missed the point.  I typically do NOT want an autoload of any kind.  I like to drop directly into XB, which I suppose is personal preference in that I want to start XB in the most expedient manner. 

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15 minutes ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

No.  You missed the point.  I typically do NOT want an autoload of any kind.  I like to drop directly into XB, which I suppose is personal preference in that I want to start XB in the most expedient manner. 

 

Yeah, would be cool if you'd could just drop into Extended Basic without any disk activity/delay.  While in command mode you could have a keypress like CTRL-1  that does "DSK1.LOAD".

That way no harm done. Just load "DSK1.LOAD" with a single keypress.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/25/2020 at 10:53 AM, retroclouds said:

 

Yeah, would be cool if you'd could just drop into Extended Basic without any disk activity/delay.  While in command mode you could have a keypress like CTRL-1  that does "DSK1.LOAD".

That way no harm done. Just load "DSK1.LOAD" with a single keypress.

Hmm that is EXACTLY what RXB does, PRESS SPACE BAR and drops directly into Edit mode (Command Mode) and never starts "DSK1.LOAD"

 

And when RXB starts up you either press 1 for "DSK1.LOAD" or press 8 for "DSK8.LOAD" or 0 for "WDS1.LOAD"

 

I have created exactly what everyone wanted in 2001 that is how long this feature had been in RXB!

All of these key option are all available in RXB, geeze how many times do I have explain it does exactly what you said you wanted?

Edited by RXB

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On 7/25/2020 at 1:53 PM, retroclouds said:

 

Yeah, would be cool if you'd could just drop into Extended Basic without any disk activity/delay.  While in command mode you could have a keypress like CTRL-1  that does "DSK1.LOAD".

That way no harm done. Just load "DSK1.LOAD" with a single keypress.

XB G.E.M., XB 2.7, and the soon to be released XB 2.8 G.E.M. can all do this if you are holding down a key when XB starts up. Easiest is to press 2 for XB, then keep holding the 2 until the cursor appears. Or, if you are selecting the options for XB256, TML, T40, etc. just hold the key down until the cursor appears.

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What are the odds of ever seeing a modified version of Extended BASIC, custom configured to work with Force Command?  I only see couple of modifications needed, for example an altered BYE command and the elimination of the DSK1.LOAD routine.

 

Would there be anything else necessary, short of making it a complicated endeavor? 

 

What @jedimatt42 has done with FCMDXB is nothing short of awesome, and makes a dream come true, so if a tailored XB never happens, it's still close enough.

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I know nothing about Force Command. Eliminating the DSK1.LOAD routine and changing BYE to go someplace else (where?) should be easy for XB 2.8 G.E.M. I'm sure Rich would have no trouble doing this with RXB as well.

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21 hours ago, RXB said:

Hmm that is EXACTLY what RXB does, PRESS SPACE BAR and drops directly into Edit mode (Command Mode) and never starts "DSK1.LOAD"

 

And when RXB starts up you either press 1 for "DSK1.LOAD" or press 8 for "DSK8.LOAD" or 0 for "WDS1.LOAD"

 

I have created exactly what everyone wanted in 2001 that is how long this feature had been in RXB!

All of these key option are all available in RXB, geeze how many times do I have explain it does exactly what you said you wanted?

 

Yeah, well what I envision is more like, you press 2 for TI Extended Basic or RXB and nothing is loaded at all. Without having to keep pressing space bar, 2 or whatever key. Notice the difference, it’s inversed. When I dedice at a later time I want to load “DSK1.LOAD” while on the Extended Basic command prompt, I just press CTRL-F1 or another combination.

 

It’s in the eye of the beholder. What I see is more something like you have in MSX Basic, a more powerful command prompt, that’s all.

 

BTW I always thought Extended Basic could use a more powerful command prompt. With the possibilities out there now, source code available, etc. perhaps it’s time for a new command prompt.

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56 minutes ago, retroclouds said:

 

Yeah, well what I envision is more like, you press 2 for TI Extended Basic or RXB and nothing is loaded at all. Without having to keep pressing space bar, 2 or whatever key. Notice the difference, it’s inversed. When I dedice at a later time I want to load “DSK1.LOAD” while on the Extended Basic command prompt, I just press CTRL-F1 or another combination.

 

Assuming you are loading the cart from some sort of GROM device (FG99?  GramKarte Geneve) you can modify the appropriate grom file contents of the autoload filename from "DSK1.LOAD" to something else, such as "DSKZ.LOAD" or "NONE.LOAD".   This will dump XB right to the *READY* state.  It's how I ran mine for years before changing to the DSK5. approach mentioned earlier.  OLD DSK1.LOAD still works fine ;)

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2 hours ago, retroclouds said:

 

Yeah, well what I envision is more like, you press 2 for TI Extended Basic or RXB and nothing is loaded at all. Without having to keep pressing space bar, 2 or whatever key. Notice the difference, it’s inversed. When I dedice at a later time I want to load “DSK1.LOAD” while on the Extended Basic command prompt, I just press CTRL-F1 or another combination.

 

It’s in the eye of the beholder. What I see is more something like you have in MSX Basic, a more powerful command prompt, that’s all.

 

BTW I always thought Extended Basic could use a more powerful command prompt. With the possibilities out there now, source code available, etc. perhaps it’s time for a new command prompt.

So pressing two keys is to much work to get to Edit Mode (Command Mode)?  WOW!

2 RXB

Space Bar now you are in Edit Mode (Command Mode)  TO MUCH WORK PRESSING THAT SPACE BAR? AGAIN WOW!

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1 hour ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

Assuming you are loading the cart from some sort of GROM device (FG99?  GramKarte Geneve) you can modify the appropriate grom file contents of the autoload filename from "DSK1.LOAD" to something else, such as "DSKZ.LOAD" or "NONE.LOAD".   This will dump XB right to the *READY* state.  It's how I ran mine for years before changing to the DSK5. approach mentioned earlier.  OLD DSK1.LOAD still works fine ;)

Really how much work is it to press SPACE BAR after pressing 2 for RXB? 

 

You are in EDIT MODE (Command Mode) and are going to be typing after all, does this argument that pressing space bar is to much work not sound really really silly?

After all your have your hands on the keyboard for typing in command mode as that is what you want to do?

Are you purposely behaving like a Monty Python character?

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20 minutes ago, RXB said:

Really how much work is it to press SPACE BAR after pressing 2 for RXB? 

 

You are in EDIT MODE (Command Mode) and are going to be typing after all, does this argument that pressing space bar is to much work not sound really really silly?

After all your have your hands on the keyboard for typing in command mode as that is what you want to do?

Are you purposely behaving like a Monty Python character?

Not every application nor person uses RXB.  Consider some introspection.

 

 

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Within the awesomeness of Force Command environment working with the TIPI and the FinalGROM, I personally find that the DSK1.LOAD routine is not needed, or wanted as it gets in the way and slows one down, granted not by much, but users are different and like different things, if an author thinks it's silly, they don't have to support it.  When I type XB progname it loads the program, which is really cool, but when I want to go straight to the XB editor I really don't want to have to hold down the space bar each and every time.

 

As for the BYE command, Extended BASIC is in the FinalGROM, so it does NOT "automagically" return to Force Command upon exit like with the FCMDXB routine within a program called by Force Command.  So, a modified BYE would load Force Command instead of simply returning one to the title screen where one has to manually reset the FinalGROM and then reload Force Command.  This would make it "seamless", quicker and more like BASICA/GWBASIC returning to MSDOS in the past.

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8 minutes ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

Not every application nor person uses RXB.  Consider some introspection.

I switched to RXB just recently, so I'm not locked in, but whatever version of BASIC eventually employs a modified BYE command and lets me enter and exit the BASIC editor with as little fuss as possible will be the version I adopt and stick with.

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11 minutes ago, Omega-TI said:

 

As for the BYE command, Extended BASIC is in the FinalGROM, so it does NOT "automagically" return to Force Command upon exit like with the FCMDXB routine within a program called by Force Command.  So, a modified BYE would load Force Command instead of simply returning one to the title screen where one has to manually reset the FinalGROM and then reload Force Command.  This would make it "seamless", quicker and more like BASICA/GWBASIC returning to MSDOS in the past.

I don't have a FG cart so this may be a silly question, does FCTN =  also require the same manual reset steps ?

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As I recall, Quit and Bye do a BLWP @>0000 to reset the computer.

What instruction would reset the computer the way you want?

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