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Omega-TI

T80XB/FCMD - Users question

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9 hours ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

I don't have a FG cart so this may be a silly question, does FCTN =  also require the same manual reset steps ?

 

Matt wrote a really cool way to load up XB program from the Final Command DOS prompt, which loads XB from the cartridge, but upon exit reloads the Force Command so you do NOT have to mess with all the manual extraneous bull pucky.  So yes, if you load XB without a program, and QUIT, BYE or whatever you still have the XB.BIN there, a modified BYE would eliminate all the BS and essentially do what the exit routine of FXMDXB does... reloads Force Command, dropping you instantly back into DOS.

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53 minutes ago, senior_falcon said:

As I recall, Quit and Bye do a BLWP @>0000 to reset the computer.

What instruction would reset the computer the way you want?

 

Doesn't BYE do a CLOSE on open files?

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9 hours ago, RXB said:

So pressing two keys is to much work to get to Edit Mode (Command Mode)?  WOW!

2 RXB

Space Bar now you are in Edit Mode (Command Mode)  TO MUCH WORK PRESSING THAT SPACE BAR? AGAIN WOW!

You are completely missing the point. And no need to yell at me writing in captial letters.

 

Again, it’s not about too much work holding a key or whatever. 

 

It’s the fact that each time I go into Extended Basic, it’s trying to load something for me, I don’t need.

So, in my case, and I repeat, in my case, I find it better the opposite is done.

 

From the 99 times I jump in Extended Basic, I perhaps 3 times need DSK1.LOAD 

Why should I keep pressing a button for the thing not to do something?  Sorry, makes no sense to me.

 

Doesn’t matter though. You just encouraged me enough to start looking into the Extended Basic command interpreter more.

So I’ll be baking my own version where the darned thing does exactly what I want.  Thank you for that.

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20 minutes ago, retroclouds said:

From the 99 times I jump in Extended Basic, I perhaps 3 times need DSK1.LOAD 

 

So I’ll be baking my own version where the darned thing does exactly what I want.  Thank you for that.

 

You got me me beat, I NEVER use DSK1.LOAD anymore for anything... EVER.

BITD when I used separate diskettes for different programs it did save time, now it just an inconvenience.  So, could you please toss a copy my way when you get it completed?  😁

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It looks like this behavior could be inverted In XB G.E.M. At present you press 2 for XB, 3 for XB with XXB, 4 for XB256, etc. Holding down the key for about 2 seconds suppresses DSK1.LOAD.

I think it is possible to make it so that DSK1.LOAD is normally suppressed unless you hold down the key for 2 seconds. Sometimes this would be useful for me, but I'm not totally sure since the compiler package uses LOAD.

Here's an idea: GEM has the option to use memory at -2 to change the color used in the editor and -1 to specify a font from 1-60. Setting the first bit might be a way to communicate with XB. So for example:

CALL LOAD(-2,244,3) would set the colors to white on dark blue and use font #3 with normal LOAD behavior.

CALL LOAD(-2,244,131) would set the colors to white on dark blue and use font #3 with suppressed LOAD.

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Seriously though, even though the elimination of the LOAD option is wanted, what I consider the most important and useful is a version of Extended BASIC that can take me back to Force Command by loading it directly off the FinalGROM.

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17 hours ago, Omega-TI said:

 

Matt wrote a really cool way to load up XB program from the Final Command DOS prompt, which loads XB from the cartridge, but upon exit reloads the Force Command so you do NOT have to mess with all the manual extraneous bull pucky.  So yes, if you load XB without a program, and QUIT, BYE or whatever you still have the XB.BIN there, a modified BYE would eliminate all the BS and essentially do what the exit routine of FXMDXB does... reloads Force Command, dropping you instantly back into DOS.

I have asked several times, but so far no one has posted anything indicating the steps needed to do this. Without that information it is not even possible to assess the feasibility of doing what you want.

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37 minutes ago, senior_falcon said:

I have asked several times, but so far no one has posted anything indicating the steps needed to do this. Without that information it is not even possible to assess the feasibility of doing what you want.

I would think that @jedimatt42 would be the one ask.  He obviously knows, because of the FG99 statement he baked into Force Command.  I would guess/imagine that the same block of code could be plugged into the right spot to modify TI Extended BASIC or any other XB .BIN for that matter.

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44 minutes ago, senior_falcon said:

I have asked several times, but so far no one has posted anything indicating the steps needed to do this. Without that information it is not even possible to assess the feasibility of doing what you want.

@jedimatt42 would most likely be able to shed light on this from what I have read here and other topics.

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He's asking for a BYE in XB that  instructs the finalGrom to load the Force Command cartridge, and then reset per usual. 

 

I think relying on XB cartridge to do this is ridiculous. Bad system architecture.

 

I have discussed a more universal mechanism, via load interrupt. This puts the responsibility in Force Command, where it belongs. This is how I would want it for my own use. And on one of Omega's setups, that would just be CTRL-ALT-F11. Less keystrokes than B Y E RETURN.

 

As it stands, a user could type RUN "TIPI FC.FCMDXB" instead of BYE.  But that isn't keyboard efficient. 

 

 

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So typing:

RUN "DIPI FC.FCMDXB" from the command line will do it? If that does the trick then this should be easy to do.

Is there a way to detect whether there is a TIPI? It would be nice to do "BYE" or "QUIT" the usual way if there is no TIPI or this way if it is detected.

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2 minutes ago, jedimatt42 said:

He's asking for a BYE in XB that  instructs the finalGrom to load the Force Command cartridge, and then reset per usual. 

 

I think relying on XB cartridge to do this is ridiculous. Bad system architecture.

 

I have discussed a more universal mechanism, via load interrupt. This puts the responsibility in Force Command, where it belongs. This is how I would want it for my own use. And on one of Omega's setups, that would just be CTRL-ALT-F11. Less keystrokes than B Y E RETURN.

 

As it stands, a user could type RUN "TIPI FC.FCMDXB" instead of BYE.  But that isn't keyboard efficient. 

 

I guess programmers and users think differently.  From my perspective, anything that makes the environment appear more closed, efficient and fluid is highly welcomed.

 

There are already multiple versions of Extended BASIC floating around, what is one more that can fit the needs of a specific environment for it's users?

On occasion one might decide to load XB directly from the FinalGROM for programming purposes, but then want to go directly into Force Command.

True, ALT 12 on my Tursi enhanced keyboard does a reset to Force Command, but NOT if a different cartridge has been loaded, like Extended BASIC.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Omega-TI said:

I would guess/imagine that the same block of code could be plugged into the right spot to modify TI Extended BASIC or any other XB .BIN for that matter.

A seemingly astute consideration, I couldn't help but notice the same, as I have already isolated and tested that code, to mine own ends.

 

To test this with XB/FC, I would add an extra PAGE to XB, preloaded with the needed code, in HEX format. Use CALL LOAD to run it(this will require a tiny file load/autoload). Modifying an existing XB command would avoid this load! There would have to be a WRITE to switch PAGES, I suppose, requiring an additional line be inserted, or an overwrite of existing code.

 

Next, step through the BYE command execution using a debugger. The code I would use to start FC, branches to >0000 already, and so should be compatible with BYE's function.

 

Though, I thought maybe STOP would be an alternate choice.

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I haven't thought this through, but maybe Omega needs an XB cart with a startup routine that bypasses the title screen and loads FC directly? 

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20 hours ago, InsaneMultitasker said:

Not every application nor person uses RXB.  Consider some introspection.

 

 

You point out something you would like a bypass of XB's "DSK1.LOAD" and go directly into XB Edit Mode (Command Mode) and I point out RXB has this.

You then say pressing the space bar after also just having pressed the 2 key is to much work or a problem for you.

Now you say not everyone uses RXB.....ok.

I would say you need some INTROSPECTION! You want a solution but just not from me. Now I get it.

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14 minutes ago, Asmusr said:

I haven't thought this through, but maybe Omega needs an XB cart with a startup routine that bypasses the title screen and loads FC directly? 

Actually, I have exactly what I want in Force Command working with the FinalGROM.  I load it first, and then I can run any EA/5 program and upon a clean exit be back at the DOS prompt without reloading.  It's bloody freaking wonderful and a dream come true and even a check off my bucket list.  The WANT comes into play because Extended BASIC is a cartridge BIN, so it supplants Force Command, but Matt figured out a way to even get by that, which was a genius move from my perspective.

 

Now Force Command, being its own environment, over time is going to spawn more programs that use and enhance the Force Command experience.  An Extended BASIC that exploits this environment, in an easy to use way can only benefit all it's users.  A simple exit command in a version of Extended BASIC specifically designed to go with Force Command seems like a logical, useful and needed progression.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Asmusr said:

I haven't thought this through, but maybe Omega needs an XB cart with a startup routine that bypasses the title screen and loads FC directly? 

Hmm there is a GPL AUTO LOAD option that can be turned on in any cart, it even works for TI Basic or any GPL HEADER:

This is the RXB GPL HEADER, but it works exactly the same for any Cartridge in the TI99/4A:

***********************************************************
*                        GROM HEADER
***********************************************************
       GROM >6000
       AORG 0
       DATA >AA0F      * VALID GROM / VERSION
       DATA >0100      * (FUTURE EXPANSION)
       DATA >0000      * POWERUP
       DATA XBCART     * PROGRAMS
       DATA >0000      * DSR 
       DATA LINK1      * CALL
       DATA >0000      * INTERUPT
       DATA >0000      * BASIC CALL
***********************************************************

If you put the address of where to start the AUTO START called POWERUP takes over. 

Put that ADDRESS you want in POWERUP and you can bypass normal start up and auto start that address.

Adding a few lines to TI Basic GPL code and each time you turn on the TI99/4A it would POWERUP to this small program automatically.

This would bypass Title Screen in case you were wondering.

You can test this pretty easy is you have any form of GRAM device like in MESS or GRAM KRACKER like device. (Not so easy in Classic99)

 

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Posted (edited)

Oh another option is use the INTERUPT in GPL HEADER, you could load your Assembly Interrupt from a GPL MOVE command and there is your AUTO CRTL-FCTN-1 key set up.

Edited by RXB
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29 minutes ago, RXB said:

You point out something you would like a bypass of XB's "DSK1.LOAD" and go directly into XB Edit Mode (Command Mode) and I point out RXB has this.

You then say pressing the space bar after also just having pressed the 2 key is to much work or a problem for you.

Now you say not everyone uses RXB.....ok.

I would say you need some INTROSPECTION! You want a solution but just not from me. Now I get it.

You are making this personal when it has nothing to do with me wanting/not wanting a solution from you.  I don't need a solution for bypassing DSK1.LOAD as I have already shared my 'solution' for my particular use case that has worked for me for years/decades.  Whether Omega or anyone else uses it, that's up to him/them;  I offered it as an alternative because it works.  I do not press '2' as my setup bypasses the title screen via the powerup address.  The work you have done with RXB is amazing but not everyone uses the same version of the XB cartridge.  Omega is looking for some help exiting XB, maybe that is a prime opportunity for RXB.

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Someone has to enlighten me. I understand the english word "Force" and I understand the english word "Command".

It's when you put them together that I get lost. What is "Force Command"

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13 minutes ago, senior_falcon said:

What is "Force Command"

It's the name of the DOS written by Jedimatt42.  I assume it uses "Force" because he's a Star Wars fan and "Command" because of the former "Command DOS" (4A/DOS).  But you'll have to ask him.

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1 hour ago, Omega-TI said:

Actually, I have exactly what I want in Force Command working with the FinalGROM.  I load it first, and then I can run any EA/5 program and upon a clean exit be back at the DOS prompt without reloading.  It's bloody freaking wonderful and a dream come true and even a check off my bucket list.  The WANT comes into play because Extended BASIC is a cartridge BIN, so it supplants Force Command, but Matt figured out a way to even get by that, which was a genius move from my perspective.

 

Now Force Command, being its own environment, over time is going to spawn more programs that use and enhance the Force Command experience.  An Extended BASIC that exploits this environment, in an easy to use way can only benefit all it's users.  A simple exit command in a version of Extended BASIC specifically designed to go with Force Command seems like a logical, useful and needed progression.

 

 

I don't really understand your workflow, but wouldn't you obtain the same if you entered FC when the computer was reset rather than when you left XB?

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1 hour ago, Asmusr said:

I don't really understand your workflow, but wouldn't you obtain the same if you entered FC when the computer was reset rather than when you left XB?

 

No, a reset would do that from a normal EA/5 program, but not from a cartridge BIN.  Most of the time I am already in Force Command, usually editing files, checking my schedule, getting on the BBS, using Stuart's Browser and things like that, so a reset works in those cases.  With the "FG99" command one can load a cartridge off the FinalGROM, but a simple reset, while using Extended BASIC returns you to that cartridge, or actually the TI menu screen.  This requires extra button presses on the FinalGROM to reset, then you have reload Force Command from the Final GROM's menu. It's not quick, or fluid.   With an Extended BASIC tailored for use with Force Command, one could enter the BASIC with the proper entry point, and simply get to work quickly, when finished type a simple word like, BYE, STOP, DOS, QUIT, EXIT or whatever and immediately be returned to Force Command, in my case the DOS prompt.   Matt is correct in that one could always and repeatedly type: RUN "TIPI.FC.FCMDXB", but wouldn't an easier, quicker and more direct approach be preferable?  I feel it would also enhance the experience and "tie things together".

 

With T80XB, programming in Extended BASIC gives one a more rewarding experience, so getting into and out of Extended BASIC quickly and easily seems like a worthy endeavor.  From my early days with the TRS-80 to the DOS era PC's the BASIC always felt integral, not so much on the TI.

 

 

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On 7/28/2020 at 10:14 AM, InsaneMultitasker said:

You are making this personal when it has nothing to do with me wanting/not wanting a solution from you.  I don't need a solution for bypassing DSK1.LOAD as I have already shared my 'solution' for my particular use case that has worked for me for years/decades.  Whether Omega or anyone else uses it, that's up to him/them;  I offered it as an alternative because it works.  I do not press '2' as my setup bypasses the title screen via the powerup address.  The work you have done with RXB is amazing but not everyone uses the same version of the XB cartridge.  Omega is looking for some help exiting XB, maybe that is a prime opportunity for RXB.

I suggested POWERUP address startup to bypass exactly the same thing and I did not know you used POWERUP to bypass Title Screen, but I suggested this.

Yet that is exactly what you are doing???

Why is it FINALGROM can not do use this? Is it due to being a ROM Cart as they can not use the POWERUP or INTERUPT options from ROM, only GPL can do this.

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