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Posted (edited)

Your Casablanca you listed is basically a SCSI enclosure. Other than being very mac-looking in its plastic, there is not much inside it. It's basically just a terminated scsi enclosure.  If it werent for having the 50pin IDC strip right on the backplane like that, one of my ultrawide drives on an adapter would fit in there just peachy. (the issue would be getting the Mac to like whatever drive you install inside the enclosure, as it will still need disk drivers put on the unit after the apple partition table, and HDSC setup is... Cranky/picky about what drives it will set up, because Apple REALLY REALLY wanted to control all hardware options available for Macs, and wanted to scalp users bigtime.)

 

I will see if I can find one of the dubious hacked copies of HDSC setup that skips apple's brand checking.

 

Here we go.

https://www.macintoshrepository.org/2426-apple-hard-disk-sc-setup-disk

 

The patched version wants system 7.5.3 (or newer)...  So I will need to jiggery-poke a disktools image for that version.

 

 

Edited by wierd_w

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Posted (edited)

Assuming the "Disk Command" opcodes are the same (ahem), it looks like such a thing could exist, and would be a simple cable, more or less.

 

See the pinouts.

https://old.pinouts.ru/HD/macfloppy2_pinout.shtml

https://old.pinouts.ru/HD/MacExtDrive_pinout.shtml

 

The HDI-20 connector needs 4 +5v rails though. The external mac floppy connector supplies some additional power rails, but of the wrong voltages. It might be possible to put some buck DC-DC converters on some perfboard and get the other 3 +5v rails from the +12v rails.

 

(If going in the OPPOSITE direction, with HDI-20 equipped mac, trying to use classic mac external floppy, some kind of crystal oscillator would probably be needed to drive pin 10. Since this kind of direction would need to support slower 800k drives, a switch to control which oscillator is driving pin 10 would be appropriate.)

 

 

Edited by wierd_w

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Posted (edited)

SCSI is a protocol, as well as a hardware stack.

 

A SCSI disk, is a SCSI disk.  (Sorta like a SATA disk is a SATA disk.)  The issue is with the drive setup program checking for ident strings on the drive it finds on a SCSI LUN attached to its HBA. That is where the cracked HDSetup comes in. :)

 

That enclosure would need an adapter, since it is much newer than the SCSI-1 HBA you would be attaching it to.

 

Edit:

Jeebus H Christ on a pogostick-- SCSI enclosures are outrageously expensive on Ebay!

Edited by wierd_w

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Posted (edited)

(for the interested, just in general)

SCSI stands for Small Computer Serial Interface.  It is both a set of hardware specifications, and a protocol specification.  Newer versions of the protocol are backward compatible, meaning newer devices can attach to an older Host Bus Adapter (HBA).

 

Architecturally, SCSI uses Logical Units, which each get a Number, and it is this logical numbering on the HBA that is used to address the device.  This designator is called the LUN. (Logical Unit Number)

 

The specification allows for more than just hard disks or optical drives to be attached.  It is a fully functional system bus, and so there are radical things like ethernet controllers, multi-IO controllers, and pals-- that were designed to live on a SCSI HBA.  For more standard devices, like disk drives, there is a standard for data exchange. (Similar in concept (at a high level of abstraction anyway) to HID mass storage class on USB bus. As long as the connected storage device speaks HID Mass-storage, a generic driver works just fine. SCSI hard disks basically all speak the same language.) Much like with IDE, which has multiple IO modes that can be used to access devices (PIO modes 0 through 4, various DMA modes, ATAPI CD, et al), SCSI also has multiple modes, based on revisions of the protocol used.  Since HDDs need to be able to speak to some arbitrary HBA, the manufacturers bake in support for older versions of those protocols. (Much like an EIDE drive that has support for ultra-dma mode 5, can still work at PIO mode 0, if that is all the connected IDE controller can handle.)

 

Due to this backward compatibility being baked in, it is possible to use cable converters to attach more modern SCSI drives to older HBAs, (and vise versa.)  The consequence is the slowdown of either the HBA or the SCSI drive.

 

The typical legacy SCSI bus has 8 possible LUN IDs that can live on it, numbered 0 though 7.  Each device is either jumper configured or software configured, to communicate on a specific LUN ID.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by wierd_w

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, wierd_w said:

Edit:

 

Jeebus H Christ on a pogostick-- SCSI enclosures are outrageously expensive on Ebay!

YEAH, that's what I was sayin'. Why so dang much money for old empty drive enclosures?

 

So I hooked up the one I found here using a 5300cs laptop. Came up fine and shows 658 meg formatted size. It had 8.1 installed, which wouldn't boot the 5300, maybe it was used on my newer G3 laptop. For snits and giggles, I trashed that system and it's just about finished copying the system 8.1 I have on the 5300, just to see if it'll boot from the 658 meg drive. 7 minutes to go...

 

I have the floppy add-on for the side port on the 5300, not sure how reliable it is though. Assuming I can read a floppy, I'll take a shot at installing 6 or 7.5 on it, or even both. I have an easy workaround to disable a given system folder so it won't boot, which allows multiple system folders on an unpartitioned drive.

 

I don't have the belief this stuff is made of gold. I'd take $50 plus shipping for the enclosure with the 658meg drive installed and ready to boot, plus any other junk like games or such I have on the 5300 to copy.

-Ed

 

 

Edited by Ed in SoDak

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Checking prices, those 78gb scsi drives I have are worth like, 70$ a pop!!

(Boggle!!)

 

I would still send one for the price of shipping though.  I have plenty of foam to pack one in, but OP would still need to get an adapter.

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50 is too much for such an old computer.  I already spent a lot. I sent a message to the rodime guy on ebay.  He said if nobody bids maybe he will negotiate. 

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Also a system 6 image would help in the mean time.  The 7.5 system and finer take so much room it  leaves hardly any for apps.

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Yeah, I'm probably a bit high at $50, just hoping for something for my time setting it up as a 6 boot drive and proving it out.

 

The Casablanca enclosure sold, but I read this in the description:

Vintage CasaBlanca case
The case size is 5.25" but please be sure to note that it is designed to hold a smaller 2.5" SCSI hard drive.
 
 

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Posted (edited)

The 1.72mb format is the microsoft DMF format.  Mac did not natively support it until 7.5.3, with PC exchange.

 

And Ed, you're such a cheapskate. :P  That guy with the Compaq portable II?  I bought his diskettes, bought kit to work with them, imaged 9 of them, and mailed them all to him at 0$ his cost. :P

 

If I had a 1.44mb diskette drive that was in working order, I would be generating physical diskette sets. 

 

SPEAKING OF--

 

Hey, why aren't you making these yourself fella?  Basilisk II has a working Mac port that should work fine on your OS9 jobber--- and it can utilize real diskette drives.  The emulated system can thus generate all the diskettes you need; why am I going through all this hassle?! :P

Edited by wierd_w

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I'd jump on the boxed sys 7 on ebay. Manuals and the whole "experience." Heheh. Anyway, it was a big deal when it first came out in the office at the museum where I worked.

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Looks like system 7.1, judging from the disks in the set.  But also comes with hypercard and pals. Noice.

 

Keep them in a safe place, and make backups.

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22 minutes ago, wierd_w said:

 

And Ed, you're such a cheapskate. :P  That guy with the Compaq portable II?  I bought his diskettes, bought kit to work with them, imaged 9 of them, and mailed them all to him at 0$ his cost. :P

 

 

 

HaHa, meybee so! And you, you rascal you, are generous beyond the norm!:thumbsup:

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Posted (edited)

I will do the needful on them then

 

System Additions.dskSystem Startup.dsk

 

OH!!

 

And look what I found!!

https://www.fenestrated.net/mirrors/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/

 

It's a mirror of what apple's support FTP site had in it, BITD!! All KINDS of goodies in there!

Edited by wierd_w

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1 hour ago, wierd_w said:

I will do the needful on them then

 

System Additions.dsk 1.41 MB · 0 downloads System Startup.dsk 1.41 MB · 0 downloads

 

OH!!

 

And look what I found!!

https://www.fenestrated.net/mirrors/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/

 

It's a mirror of what apple's support FTP site had in it, BITD!! All KINDS of goodies in there!

Will try later.  In the mean time I got 6.0.6 from macintoshrepository.  Unpacked the dsk from hfv explorer and coppied to a floppy.  Retains icons and works on my ibook g3.  Except the system folder has a blank icon and the floppy does boot the SE. 

 

How come only your dsk images make the plain system folder have a mac happy face icon and boot my SE.  Why not other images.

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You have to "bless" the system folder. Don't recall how off the top of my head. I'm sure a search will reveal all.

I guess it's what Apple meant when they said "Think Different." LOL

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6 minutes ago, Ed in SoDak said:

You have to "bless" the system folder. Don't recall how off the top of my head. I'm sure a search will reveal all.

I guess it's what Apple meant when they said "Think Different." LOL

Yes open and close folder usually does it.

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