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Posted (edited)

I've re-posted to the first post with what should be a version that fixes the glitching on Mateos (fingers crossed).

 

I'm pretty certain the glitching on Mateos and BupSystem is due to variables controlling the mine explosions and laser impact sparkles being stored in RAM and those variables not starting out as zero when initialized (not having one of those cards, it's not something I tested for and maybe my assumption on how the 16K initialises was optimistic :) ).

 

I think A7800 and JS7800 are more forgiving in that respect :) either way, I think the glitch is fixed now.

Edited by Muddyfunster

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Looks sweet as mate, can't wait to give this one a whirl. Attention to detail is on point 👍

  

9 hours ago, Albert said:

Awesome!  Look forward to trying it out.  :)

 

  ..Al

  

8 hours ago, TrekMD said:

This looks fantastic!

 

 

2 hours ago, mksmith said:

Congrats Lewis 👏👏👏 Looking forward to playing this 😁

Thanks guys (and everyone else taking the time to comment and test- appreciated!) :)

Edited by Muddyfunster
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Kudos to @CPUWIZ and the wonderful MCP DevCart for making this real hardware footage possible below. 

 

Very much appreciate that DEVCART bankswitching version that was originally posted.  Look like it has since been removed from the first post.  It works perfectly though. 

 

WOW...this is a *very* impressive first publicly posted beta.  Attention to detail is off the charts:

 

 

Sorry the video is a lot more raw than what I like to post, working on some new setups though.

 

Full screen the video to remove the moire effect on some screens

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15 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said:

@sramirez2008 does the new file load ok ?

New file loads. I am terrible at this game. Seems like it requires a controller with a very short throw and my 7800 controllers are a bit sloppy. I tried my Genesis 3 button via Seagull 78 adapter, but i don’t like using a d-pad with this game either. 
 

I’m shutting it down for tonight. Will rotate through my 7800 controllers and start fresh tomorrow.  Thanks for the working with us on the 144k ROMs.👍

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said:

New file loads. I am terrible at this game. Seems like it requires a controller with a very short throw and my 7800 controllers are a bit sloppy. I tried my Genesis 3 button via Seagull 78 adapter, but i don’t like using a d-pad with this game either. 
 

I’m shutting it down for tonight. Will rotate through my 7800 controllers and start fresh tomorrow.  Thanks for the working with us on the 144k ROMs.👍

@sramirez2008It's no bother at all, glad we got something working on Mateos and thanks for checking :)

 

 

@TreborI'll re-post the MCP version, didn't realist it worked! thanks for the feedback and the kind comments :) 

 

The real footage is great, thanks for this. I noticed at 2:30 the screen tiles look green, under emulation they are blue (with cool palette). Guess that's something to look into. (screenshot below).

image.thumb.png.07a2706708d7e91e4d080d5b7d5364e1.png

Edited by Muddyfunster
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Spoiler

Few play throughs and have no idea how to deactivate the three electrical/plasma "arcs"? Im still trying to work that out or is that the end of the demo?

 

Anyway as for difficulty it's fine after getting some practice IMO, although the start is very hard for a novice. Not sure of your plans and just a suggestion maybe there could be a tutorial level at the beginning or home base screen that's super easy. Other then that it's not really a big deal after getting the feel for it.

 

Spoiler

Down side with the demo is i want more game to play through :) or maybe there is and i need to work out how to deactivate those plasma arcs 👍

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said:
  Hide contents

Few play throughs and have no idea how to deactivate the three electrical/plasma "arcs"? Im still trying to work that out or is that the end of the demo?

 

Anyway as for difficulty it's fine after getting some practice IMO, although the start is very hard for a novice. Not sure of your plans and just a suggestion maybe there could be a tutorial level at the beginning or home base screen that's super easy. Other then that it's not really a big deal after getting the feel for it.

 

  Hide contents

Down side with the demo is i want more game to play through :) or maybe there is and i need to work out how to deactivate those plasma arcs 👍

 

There is more :) this demo has 21 or so screens. 

 

Clue :

 

Each level has a generator (maybe more than 1 on later levels..) and a security code. To rescue the team member and leave the level, you need both.

 

You will not be able to get to the security code until you have disabled the generator and weakened the security systems that block the way. (Generator -> Code -> Exit)

Edited by Muddyfunster
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32 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Kudos to @CPUWIZ and the wonderful MCP DevCart for making this real hardware footage possible below. 

 

 

Indeed, that is some voodoo dark magic right there :)

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I tried this using emulation.  I have to agree with @sramirez2008, it feels like this game needs precision with the controller.  Adds to the difficulty.  :)

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1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said:

The real footage is great, thanks for this. 

My pleasure.

1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said:

The real footage is great, thanks for this. I noticed at 2:30 the screen tiles look green, under emulation they are blue (with cool palette).

The cool palette for the most part is only around for a limited time of consistent console usage.  The more consistently the console is on, some range hues change their appearance.  Checking the same values with the hot palette will help discover the noticeable shift hue values.  For a range of blue that will stay consistently 'true' blue regardless if the system is cool, warm, or hot, under NTSC, the $9x range is where the "blues" should be selected from.  My presumption is currently the selection came from the NTSC $Ax range.

 

The PAL palette is just slightly different for most values. Overall, it's usually just a shift of one 'row'.  In other words, for PAL, the $Ax range is where the 'true' blues should be selected from.  Whereby, PAL $Bx results are similar to NTSC $Ax.

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That assessment is spot on @Trebor those tiles are using $Ax. The tile values change for different parts of the level so I'll try a $9x based palette and see how that looks for those screens.

 

I noticed a few other screens where the palette looked just a little off compared to what I expected, nothing too huge though.

 

Thanks again, that feedback on palettes is invaluable! (I've been reading through the palette links in your sig!).

 

 

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1 hour ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Anyway as for difficulty it's fine after getting some practice IMO, although the start is very hard for a novice. Not sure of your plans and just a suggestion maybe there could be a tutorial level at the beginning or home base screen that's super easy. Other then that it's not really a big deal after getting the feel for it.

This was me all the way.  I used a Genesis 6 button controller thanks to @edladdin adapter.  My first dozen or so tries, I was like Holy ---- this is hard.  But then it all started clicking (somewhat...lol).  It is by no means an easy go by any stretch of the imagination, and for beginners that first section takes some practice and getting use to, no doubt.  A little more space and room for error at the beginning couldn't hurt though.

 

The upside is preparation and practice is already in place for pushing forward with the rest of the level once that first section is conquered.  The player is already falling nicely into the groove with some timings and overall control.  I started kicking myself about how much easier the first part became after I started playing more and more.  What I thought was going to be an 'incredibly difficult game' had me change my tune to 'challenging game'.

34 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said:

That assessment is spot on @Trebor those tiles are using $Ax. The tile values change for different parts of the level so I'll try a $9x based palette and see how that looks for those screens.

 

I noticed a few other screens where the palette looked just a little off compared to what I expected, nothing too huge though.

 

Thanks again, that feedback on palettes is invaluable! (I've been reading through the palette links in your sig!).

More than happy to assist. 

 

I don't want to bore nor weigh down this thread with palette conversation, but essentially this is what happens to the range of colors seen under NTSC $Ax appearance:

COOL Console:

$Ax = Steel/Livid Blue<->Aqua

HOT Console:

$Ax = Green<->Teal<->Aqua

 

Here is NTSC $9x behavior:

COOL Console:

$9x = True Blue<->Sky Blue

HOT Console:

$9x = Steel/Livid Blue<->Sky Blue

 

Again, for PAL, just substitute anywhere NTSC $Ax is mentioned with PAL $Bx, and anywhere NTSC $9x is mentioned with PAL $Ax.

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My Spaceship fell into the UI and can be seen next to the Rockets/Lives remaining counters. I was able to continue by moving up and down, however the same thing happened again on the next screen.

 

Btw, I'm getting more comfortable playing the game with my Edladdin Super Twin controller. Now I can go to sleep.

 

Will resume testing tomorrow.

3C653B4F-E2A9-4196-8871-B2CBC9126055.jpeg

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I actually have the first 128k you loaded up here on my Mateos working fine other than the laser explosions occasionally glitching out. Comes and goes, but that was the only glitch I ran into. I've managed to get through the demo twice now and actually like the colors you've chosen as it helped me to dial in my color trimmer that much more on my 7800. Although the colors are still off in places through s-video on a flatpanel display. I will see if I can get some footage of my playing the older 128k demo tomorrow.

 

 

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Hi Muddy

the 128 k version works perfect on my concerto 😁

But it is real heavy.Maybe i found a small bug....

After mission failed....i could not restart.....

Press Fire does not work.....

Keep up tge great work 😉

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Posted (edited)

@sramirez2008 - Thanks that glitch is on the *fix* list :) I know it happens but I can't consistently replicate it. That part of the code is going to be optimised so I'll be making the fix at the same time. Glad you got used the difficulty curve. As @trebor noted, after a bit it "clicks".

 

@Trebor Palette guidance is super helpful, thanks. The feedback on difficulty is also great. I feared that I'd made the game too hard, then I went and played Cybernoid and realised that compared to Cybernoid (one of my inspirations for E.X.O) that E.X.O is quite mild in comparison :) I agree on the first couple of screens though, that could be a tiny bit more gentle.

 

@-^CrossBow^- If you can grab some footage of your colour issues, that would be great, can see what's happening there. The glitching issue you noted (thanks!) are fixed in the current demo download. That was due to how Mateos was initialising the RAM the game uses.

 

@gambler172 Thanks Walter. I can't replicate that hang where the fire button to restart doesn't work. I don't think that has been reported as a bug on Mateos, MCPDEV or Emulation. It could be that's just a Concerto issue. That one is puzzling.

 

@TwentySixHundred Thanks mate, tutorial level is something I looked at ages ago, early in development, but left out due to space considerations. I then went and changed how the banks are structured, created more space (moved to 256k) and promptly forgot about it. Something to revisit I think as it's a great idea.

 

Thanks to everyone providing feedback and comments especially on difficulty and challenge.

 

Glad we got something working for the different cart solutions as seeing how things look on real hardware is fantastic (especially stuff like the palette differences we already noted).

 

Edited by Muddyfunster
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7 hours ago, gambler172 said:

Hi Muddy

the 128 k version works perfect on my concerto 😁

But it is real heavy.Maybe i found a small bug....

After mission failed....i could not restart.....

Press Fire does not work.....

Keep up tge great work 😉

You know, now that you mention this, I don't think I've ever gotten the press fire to restart to work either on the mission failed screen. Reset doesn't do anything either and I've had to power on/off the 7800 to start it up again. Just figured that is how it was for the time being?

 

I will load up the newer demo onto my Mateos in a bit and see if I can record some footage from my 7800 on my flatpanel. We already know there are issues with color on flatpanels with the 7800 so this really doesn't surprise me. KnightGuy is similar in that he doesn't look quite a golden on my actual TV and seems to have a slight green tinge to his color on my setup. But yeah, most of the maroon background comes out much darker on my flatpanel than it does via emulation and I think the fan blades might actually be rotating a bit slower on real hardware vs emulation.

 

 

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Forgot to add, that the Mateos does NOT like the A78 files and we have to manually convert them without the header. So if you want to post the files for use Matoes users for testing, you don't need to add that extra bit for the A78. In fact, the Mateos requires us to take the raw .BIN and then we have to rename it with the extension of .SGR in this case for Super Game + RAM which, is exactly what your current demo WIP mimics.

 

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57 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

We already know there are issues with color on flatpanels with the 7800 so this really doesn't surprise me. KnightGuy is similar in that he doesn't look quite a golden on my actual TV and seems to have a slight green tinge to his color on my setup. But yeah, most of the maroon background comes out much darker on my flatpanel than it does via emulation and I think the fan blades might actually be rotating a bit slower on real hardware vs emulation.

The issue with color on the 7800 is actually the same for the 5200 and 2600 (See 2600 Pitfall! ground for a good example).  It is the Hue $1x range. The NES too has the same issue, just not as dominantly obvious as it is with 7800 Commando's ground color.  For the NES, the issue exists from the Hue $x8 range, and can been seen with items like parts of Battletoads' ground, Contra rock siding, Ghosts'n Goblins mounds/siding of dirt, Ikari Warriors ground, Metroid ground from title screen, and some other places, all often lean more green-chartreuse than gold-brown from a standard NES console when viewed under a LCD.

 

Maroon backgrounds appearing more darker on a LCD compared to a CRT is due to the slightly more red strength or ratio over blue, and is also why some "blues" in the NTSC Hue $7x range and even NTSC Hue $8x range that straddle the fence between a 'true' blue and purple-ish appearance, lean much stronger to a purple-violet appearance (Again, no different with the NES - See Super Mario Bros. sky color, background of Kung-Fu Master, the ring floor and crowd barrier of Pro Wrestling.  They come from the Hue $x2 range - specifically Hue $22).  Of course display brightness and contrast ratio of a modern display will have a role too.  CRTs produce a bloom effect which tend to brighten colors to an extent when compared to an LCD or other modern displays.

 

The fan blade speeds may be slightly faster under JS7800 (Great eye, BTW :)), I did not notice a difference with A7800.

 

Quote

I don't think I've ever gotten the press fire to restart to work either on the mission failed screen. Reset doesn't do anything either and I've had to power on/off the 7800 to start it up again.

Happened to me on a second consecutive Mission Failed and then again after four consecutive Mission Failed.  It is definitely sporadic and an issue.

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17 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

Sorry @bhall408I've only tested on A7800 and JS7800. I don't use ProSystem. JS7800 is browser based and should work on your mac.

 

I've added to the first post versions for 128k+16kRAM. I've only posted the .BIN, not sure if that is all that is needed to run on Mateos etc. I can add the .A78 if needed 

The 128K loads/runs fine in OpenEMU - thanks!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Forgot to add, that the Mateos does NOT like the A78 files and we have to manually convert them without the header. So if you want to post the files for use Matoes users for testing, you don't need to add that extra bit for the A78. In fact, the Mateos requires us to take the raw .BIN and then we have to rename it with the extension of .SGR in this case for Super Game + RAM which, is exactly what your current demo WIP mimics.

 

Thanks for this feedback. Not having a Mateos card means I don't actually know the hoops you guys have to jump through to add a rom to the card and test it. As no one mentioned needing the .BIN I stopped posting it. 

 

I've added the 128K BIN to the first post if that's helpful. Appreciate the real hardware testing so if there are things I can do to make that easier for you guys, let me know :)

Edited by Muddyfunster
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The Mission Failed - Press Fire issue is not present under emulation that I've found (A7800, JS7800, BupSystem).

 

I have an idea to fix this so I'll take a look at that part of the code again in more detail in a bit - thanks for this feedback!

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Posted (edited)

Ok I think I've found the issue, combination of a typo and converting the main code path (16 banks 256k) to the demo code path(8 banks 128k). There was a bank fall through that works in emulation.

 

New Binaries attached to first post, these are V210.

Edited by Muddyfunster
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