SIDE 3 preorder

[flashjazzcat]

57 minutes ago, fenrock said:

Still, what else can you do during lockdown?

All my other work. But this fix is looking extremely encouraging, anyway. I now have fourteen fully working cards, including the pair Jim sent up.

 

[dostrow]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:16 AM, flashjazzcat said:

This is a very advisable course of action, in light of the fact the machine itself is a bit of an unknown quantity.

I got my hands on a known working Dig Dug cartridge and it works perfectly, lunching both with SDX disabled and by typing CAR in SDX. This tells me pretty conclusively that it is the SIDE3 cart itself. I take it this is something I am going to have to take up with @lotharek once he is back from vacation. Unfortunate as sending stuff back and forth from Poland to Texas is less than awesome. Is there anything else I should be trying before then? My Fujinet is supposed to be arriving this weekend in case that helps get data to the system at all...

[flashjazzcat]

Here's an update designed to address SD card compatibility:

 

SIDE3_Loader_0.17_221022.zip

 

U1MB_SIDE3_Firmware_RC_221020.zip

 

Updating SIDE3:

• Copy S3LOADER.XEX to the FAT partition of your SD card (preferably one known to work without read errors), run it from the loader (ensuring BASIC is disabled in the loader settings), and follow the prompts
• You can also run the XEX via SIO2PC/RespeQt using the 'Boot Atari executable' feature.
• Ensure there are NO cartridge ROM or SDX ROMs in the way. So: if you have U1MB with the normal SIDE2 firmware, disable SDX and PBI HDD, etc, and boot the SIDE3 cart with the switch in the loader (up) position
• You may run the XEX from the CLI of the SIDE3's on-board SDX, but you MUST use the 'X' command.

My advice: run the XEX from the SD card.

 

Updating Ultimate 1MB:

 

You have an ATR with UFLASH.XEX, BIOS.ROM and ULTPBI.ROM. In the usual manner (having removed any cartridges and enabled the U1MB's on-board SDX), flash BIOS.ROM to the Main BIOS slot, and ULTPBI.ROM to the PBI BIOS slot. Power cycle the machine afterwards. Before re-applying power, in fact, you may connect your SIDE3. Hop into the BIOS setup menu and enable the PBI HDD in order to make the 'L' key start the SIDE3 loader (on the cartridge) instead of the SIDE2 loader which is still on your U1MB ROM.

 

I've also updated the SIDE3.SYS driver:

 

SIDE3_Driver_4.02_221020.zip

 

You can test this by booting the SIDE3 SDX with SHIFT held down and running SIDE3.SYS manually from some SIO attached device (make sure to type the full drive and path to avoid simply loading the driver already on the CAR: device: e.g. B:>SIDE3.SYS).

 

If you don't have access to an SIO device and want to update the U1MB, read this:

You might want to just update the loader first and see if it makes any difference with problem cards. As written, 14/14 SD cards (including the pair I was sent by Jim) are now working here following some topical testing (in-depth R/W testing of multiple cards on multiple machines will take several hours). I've tested the loader on a stock NTSC 800XL, among other machines, and the problematic Panasonic SD card worked well there too. Quite encouraging.

 

Other changes/fixes:

• Problems with card insertion/removal while a confirmation dialogue is open have been fixed (loader)
• Problems with the loader's screensaver while a confirmation dialogue is open have been fixed (loader)
• Card removal/insertion sensing in SIDE3.SYS didn't work at all; now fixed.

If you already applied the main U1MB BIOS from last weekend, you don't have to flash it again since nothing changed. The PBI BIOS, however, has received the same fix as the loader, so you'll want to update the PBI BIOS to ensure ATR mounting works with your problematic SD cards. Likewise SIDE3.SYS: that's had the same fix.

 

My advice is: update the loader first and see if SD cards which didn't previously work behave differently with this version. If you get a 'card error' message, we know that the media didn't even get through the initialisation phase. If you get a 'NAK error', on the other hand, we know that the card initialised OK but tripped up at the faster clock speed. If you get good results in the loader, go ahead and update the PBI BIOS if you have Ultimate 1MB.

 

I've done a couple of RWCRC tests using this update (on APT partitions), even using one of the cards which previously didn't work at all, and got 0 errors. Nevertheless, if you were already having problems, watch what you're doing with any valuable data.

 

Once we have the majority of cards working, I'll return attention to what I had intended to work on (auto-mounting carts, custom file type handlers and such).

Edited October 22, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[gianlucarenzi]

Hello guys! I know this question is OFF-TOPIC but as I see you guys own a caliber and some of you are owning Atari 800 and XL series, I urgently need to know which size in mm (or even better in keycaps unit) the following keys:

ATARI 800:

  - CONTROL key (to my measurements using pictures found on internet) 1.5U

  - LSHIFT key 1.75U as well as the RSHIFT

  - FUNCTION KEYS (Select, Start...) 1.5U

  - CLR SET TAB key 1.5U

  - RETURN key 1.5U

 

ATARI 800XL

  - CONTROL key 2.0U

  - LSHIFT key 2.25U

  - RSHIFT key 2.0U

  - CAPS LOWR key 1.25U

  - RETURN key 1.75U

  - ESC key 1.25U

  - FUNCTION KEYS are spaced as 1U keysize.

 

The only correct keyboard I can check is the Atari 130XE style...

 

In attachment the PDF layouts of those keycaps (used by MaxKeyboard) and the keysize in keycap units.

 

Please help me,

Gianluca

atari-800-xl-style-maxkeyboard.pdf atari-xe-style-maxkeyboard.pdf

[Marius]

21 minutes ago, gianlucarenzi said:

Hello guys! I know this question is OFF-TOPIC but as I see you guys own a caliber and some of you are owning Atari 800 and XL series, I urgently need to know which size in mm (or even better in keycaps unit) the following keys:

ATARI 800:

  - CONTROL key (to my measurements using pictures found on internet) 1.5U

  - LSHIFT key 1.75U as well as the RSHIFT

  - FUNCTION KEYS (Select, Start...) 1.5U

  - CLR SET TAB key 1.5U

  - RETURN key 1.5U

 

ATARI 800XL

  - CONTROL key 2.0U

  - LSHIFT key 2.25U

  - RSHIFT key 2.0U

  - CAPS LOWR key 1.25U

  - RETURN key 1.75U

  - ESC key 1.25U

  - FUNCTION KEYS are spaced as 1U keysize.

 

The only correct keyboard I can check is the Atari 130XE style...

 

In attachment the PDF layouts of those keycaps (used by MaxKeyboard) and the keysize in keycap units.

 

Please help me,

Gianluca

atari-800-xl-style-maxkeyboard.pdf 31.66 kB · 2 downloads atari-xe-style-maxkeyboard.pdf 29.49 kB · 2 downloads

You seriously should make a new thread. You'll get way more responses then, and indeed this derails the side3 thread completely. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Marius

[gianlucarenzi]

Ok, I will move it.

 

Thanks, and sorry for noise.

[TGB1718]

12 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

I've also updated the SIDE3.SYS driver:

Sorry to ask, but should I now put SIDE3.SYS on my boot drive and add add DEVICE SIDE3.SYS to CONFIG.SYS.

 

Just thought I would add, when I tried to update using the S3loader.xex, no matter what I did all I got was "Waiting for Media" (U1M settings as advised).

I have a second unmodded 130XE, I put the SIDE3 into this and it loaded just fine and updated .

 

Since doing both updates it seems to be working, currently copying all my files to the Partitions from backups so may take a while.

[flashjazzcat]

48 minutes ago, gianlucarenzi said:

Ok, I will move it.

 

Thanks, and sorry for noise.

I received your email the other day but have such an absurd backlog of enquiries at the moment I haven't yet had time to respond. I will get the callipers and sliced salami sausage out as soon as I can and send you some measurements.

12 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

Sorry to ask, but should I now put SIDE3.SYS on my boot drive and add add DEVICE SIDE3.SYS to CONFIG.SYS.

This won't work, since the HDD cannot be accessed until SIDE3.SYS is actually loaded (on a stand-alone SIDE3 setup without U1MB, that is). If the driver works well, I will put it in the SDX ROM using the imaging tool and publish a new SDX flasher.

12 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

Just thought I would add, when I tried to update using the S3loader.xex, no matter what I did all I got was "Waiting for Media" (U1M settings as advised).

Sounds like the SIDE2 loader on your U1MB was called instead of the SIDE3 loader.

12 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

I have a second unmodded 130XE, I put the SIDE3 into this and it loaded just fine and updated .

 

Since doing both updates it seems to be working, currently copying all my files to the Partitions from backups so may take a while.

Good to hear.

12 hours ago, dostrow said:

I got my hands on a known working Dig Dug cartridge and it works perfectly, lunching both with SDX disabled and by typing CAR in SDX. This tells me pretty conclusively that it is the SIDE3 cart itself. I take it this is something I am going to have to take up with @lotharek once he is back from vacation. Unfortunate as sending stuff back and forth from Poland to Texas is less than awesome. Is there anything else I should be trying before then? My Fujinet is supposed to be arriving this weekend in case that helps get data to the system at all...

In the absence of a any other commentary, I can only refer again to my experience with a 65XE which worked with every cartridge except SIDE3 (which was either not seen at all, or displayed a black screen). This turned out to be a timing issue on the host machine, fixed by replacing 74LS08. I am not saying this is the issue with your machine, but if it happened with one machine, it can happen with two machines. I agree that actually returning the item to Poland should be a last resort. Perhaps Lotharek will advise on his return if you explain the issue to him by email.

Edited October 23, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, TGB1718 said:

Just thought I would add, when I tried to update using the S3loader.xex, no matter what I did all I got was "Waiting for Media" (U1M settings as advised).

Thanks for bringing this up. To avoid confusion in the future, the next version of the loader for U1MB displays 'No device' when SIDE2 is not detected (rather than 'Waiting for media'). You've definitely started the wrong loader, anyway. Turn everything off on the U1MB, boot SIDE3 in loader mode, and run s3loader.xex. However, since you've already updated the cart on the other machine, you're done anyway.

[TGB1718]

4 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Turn everything off on the U1MB, boot SIDE3 in loader mode

That did cross my mind afterwards

 

I have one issue now, SIDE3 seems to be fine, the loader now see's the card and file, CART's load

.XEX load and it shows the APT and FAT partitions, however when I boot normally into U1M SDX

all the partitions seem fine except the FAT partition, I can see FATFS.SYS is loading on the boot screen.

 

U1MB SIDE PBI BIOS v.3.10, dev. 0
Ultimate clock installed
FATFS v.0.87L
DOSKEY: loaded 9 aliases

SpartaDOS X 4.49 8-04-2020
Copyright (C) 2020 by FTe & DLT
"DRIVES D5: D6: D7: D8: D9: AND DO:"

D5:

 

but when I dir DO: it says 148 Unknown File System

 

I then installed SIDE3.SYS as per you instructions just in case it would help, but it's still the same

Can't access the FAT Partition

[flashjazzcat]

13 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

but when I dir DO: it says 148 Unknown File System

 

I then installed SIDE3.SYS as per you instructions just in case it would help

Forget about SIDE3.SYS if you're using the U1MB PBI BIOS. SIDE3.SYS is solely intended to drive the HDD when no U1MB is present.

 

The most common reason for FATFS.SYS not seeing the filesystem is that the file system doesn't meet the requirements of the driver. It needs to be FAT16, not FAT32. If it's FAT16 and still doesn't show up, I seem to recall a FAT troubleshooting tool on the SDX toolkit disk (get that from the SDX Upgrade project page). There have also been some compatibility issues between various (deprecated) versions of FATFS and more recent builds of SDX. Since this (SIDE3) build of SDX is somewhat incomplete, it's hard to provide specific advice (unfortunately I can't singlehandedly troubleshoot hardware issues and SDX issues while simultaneously maintaining the loader, drivers, flashing tool and U1MB firmware). Perhaps Trub will chime in.

Edited October 23, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[TGB1718]

Thanks for the info, I'll build another card and make sure it's FAT16 and see what happens 

[TGB1718]

Just to update, copied files off the FAT32 partition, re-formatted to FAT, copied files back, all working now thanks @flashjazzcat

[+Philsan]

Tested the new firmware (thanks for the update Jon) with Sandisk Ultra 16GB and U1MB 320KB.

 

All CAR works with few exceptions that will be fixed (The Eidolon and Koronis Rift don't load after intro screen, Conan, Gauntlet, The Goonies).

 

XEX seems to work too.

 

I have problems loading many ATR, for example His Dark Majesty, Spelunker.

[flashjazzcat]

7 minutes ago, Philsan said:

All CAR works with few exceptions that will be fixed (The Eidolon and Koronis Rift don't load after intro screen, Conan, Gauntlet, The Goonies).

 

XEX seems to work too.

Excellent - that's great to hear.

5 minutes ago, Philsan said:

I have problems loading many ATR, for example His Dark Majesty, Spelunker.

I assume you updated the U1MB PBI BIOS? I've just tested both those ATRs and they work here, so they should work for you too unless you are still blighted by SD card issues. Make sure you didn't accidentally enable internal BASIC in the loader settings (worth checking, since it took another user four years to realise they were trying to run everything with internal BASIC enabled).

 

Only a limited number of ATRs work without U1MB (i.e., with no PBI BIOS and relying on the soft-loaded OS).

 

[+Philsan]

I attach my copy of His Dark Majesty, a game worth playing.

 

PBI BIOS updated (how can I check?) and Basic disabled.

 

I loaded from Side3 loader.

Should I go to U1MB BIOS and press L?

His Dark Majesty (2010)(Jakub Debski, Jakub Husak, Adam Powroznik, Krzysztof Ziembik).atr

[flashjazzcat]

11 minutes ago, Philsan said:

I attach my copy of His Dark Majesty, a game worth playing.

Thanks! That works here, run from the Panasonic SD card I was sent which produced NAK errors prior to yesterday's fix.

12 minutes ago, Philsan said:

PBI BIOS updated (how can I check?) and Basic disabled.

Enable the PBI BIOS and - crucially - the hard disk:

 

If you want to check the PBI BIOS version, you can do so either by running UFLASH again, selecting 'PBI BIOS' and pressing 'P' to get the slot properties, or simply enabling the 'PBI notice' in the BIOS settings (as shown above) and booting SDX:

 

17 minutes ago, Philsan said:

Should I go to U1MB BIOS and press L?

You may. When the PBI HDD is enabled, pressing 'L' will start the SIDE3 loader on the cartridge instead of the SIDE2 loader still built into your U1MB.

 

[+Philsan]

Ehm, hard disk was disabled...

 

Now I turn on computer, press Help+Reset, U1MB screen appears, I press L, Side3 Loader appears, ATR load, thanks!

 

Is there an easier way?

 

EDIT

 

Found Boot to loader option.

 

EDIT 2

 

The best option IMHO is BIOS logo: Boot

[flashjazzcat]

19 minutes ago, Philsan said:

Ehm, hard disk was disabled...

Excellent. I love remote fixes like these.

19 minutes ago, Philsan said:

Now I turn on computer, press Help+Reset, U1MB screen appears, I press L, Side3  Loader appears and from it ATR load, thanks!

 

Is there an easier way?

This is the way things have basically worked with U1MB/SIDE since 2011 or so. There are a couple of shortcuts, though:

• Simply hold down the 'L' key when turning on the computer
• You can enable 'Boot to loader' in the U1MB setup menu so that the loader starts every time you turn on or reboot the machine
• Disable the 'ATR swap button' in the U1MB settings. You can then get back to the loader by pressing the momentary switch on the back of the cartridge, and then pressing RESET (providing the SIDE3's two-position switch is in the 'loader' position). This behaviour is the same as per stand-alone (no U1MB) operation.

Note also that you can simply hold down HELP while turning on the machine (if the splash screen is disabled) or press HELP when the splash screen is displayed to get straight to the setup menu without involving the RESET key.

Edited October 23, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[Jimbaloid]

23 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

Here's an update designed to address SD card compatibility:

And address it, it does! ?

 

With this new update, I have gone from all my SD cards not working to just one card that doesn't work, and that is a truly ancient FujiFilm 64MB card (yes MB), zero cause for concern. The first of my new cards arrived this morning, it works, and I also found another 2GB card in my office, it works too.

 

From where I'm sitting this is a very significant change. Thank you @flashjazzcat.

[Jimbaloid]

Further more, the above great result is true across all three of my machines with just a small exception; my Rev A 800XL, with one of the now otherwise working SD cards will see occasional file name corruption that I cannot reproduce on the other two machines. The same machine also gives occasional 'config reset' messages. Does that suggest that the timings of the machine may be near tolerance perhaps? I've not previously seen anything to suggest the machine is faulty, but is there anything I should consider investigating? Thanks.

[+DrVenkman]

7 minutes ago, Jimbaloid said:

The same machine also gives occasional 'config reset' messages. Does that suggest that the timings of the machine may be near tolerance perhaps?

Apologies if I've missed it, but does this machine have an Ultimate 1MB installed? If so, you might consider installing a small 100pF capacitor between the RESET and GROUND pins on the U1MB board itself. I started having similar configuration resets of my U1MB on a 1200XL, and it was suggested to me by @tf_hh to mod my U1MB with a capacitor like that my my problems went away. I'm pretty sure @flashjazzcat has suggested a similar mod to others in the past as well.

[+remowilliams]

After some more escapades with different 1GB and 2GB cards (with the latest updates in #353) I've settled on a Sandisk 8GB card that seems to work properly in all aspects.

 

The smaller cards had issues such as random success loading large binaries and HD functionality not being recognized or not working properly.

 

Are there any utilities or test batteries that can be run automated repeatedly to ensure everything is 100% and no data corruption is occurring?

[Jimbaloid]

9 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

9 hours ago, Jimbaloid said:

The same machine also gives occasional 'config reset' messages. Does that suggest that the timings of the machine may be near tolerance perhaps?

Apologies if I've missed it, but does this machine have an Ultimate 1MB installed?

No, it's sat in the box waiting to go into this machine - my next mission if I can find a few uninterrupted hours. I will keep that mind. Thanks.

[flashjazzcat]

13 hours ago, Jimbaloid said:

With this new update, I have gone from all my SD cards not working to just one card that doesn't work, and that is a truly ancient FujiFilm 64MB card (yes MB), zero cause for concern. The first of my new cards arrived this morning, it works, and I also found another 2GB card in my office, it works too.

That's fantastic. For anyone else thinking of interfacing with SD cards, this latest tweak is well worth writing down for future reference.

12 hours ago, Jimbaloid said:

Further more, the above great result is true across all three of my machines with just a small exception; my Rev A 800XL, with one of the now otherwise working SD cards will see occasional file name corruption that I cannot reproduce on the other two machines. The same machine also gives occasional 'config reset' messages. Does that suggest that the timings of the machine may be near tolerance perhaps? I've not previously seen anything to suggest the machine is faulty, but is there anything I should consider investigating?

Data corruption (bearing in mind that the card has clearly initialised, has accepted commands and is putting data into the FIFO) coupled with RTC communication errors certainly suggests something other than a software issue to me. I say this after running into a stock 65XE which completely failed to acknowledge the presence of SIDE3 until I replaced the Motorola 74LS08 chip. The 74LS08 chip is the source of the buffered Phi2 clock signal.

12 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

I'm pretty sure @flashjazzcat has suggested a similar mod to others in the past as well.

The cap between RST and GND was specifically intended to address the issue of residual noise or pulses on the RESET line which would result in the U1MB entering its reset cycle after the host machine had already come out of RESET. This resulted in the spontaneous loss of 'IORAM' under the hardware registers and various spectacular crashes. Since the configuration is read into IORAM from the NVRAM, the lack of RAM in the appropriate address space would result in garbage configuration data and consequently 'config reset' messages. I think this is why the cap mod solved your issue. It looks like Jim's issue is something else.

12 hours ago, remowilliams said:

The smaller cards had issues such as random success loading large binaries and HD functionality not being recognized or not working properly.

Again: clearly the cards initialise, accept commands and attempt to deliver data, so perhaps we have a secondary issue with some card/host machine combos.

 

While Candle asserted earlier in the thread that 'always it was a software issue,' (SD card problems, that is), it's worth noting that some test builds of the FPGA code would result in previously working machines (such as the 600XL I used for development 90 per cent of the time) spontaneously experiencing loader crashes and other problems. Once the compiler warnings were eradicated form the FPGA project, the status quo would be restored without any changes to the 6502 code, and the cartridge would again work properly with the host machines.

 

Coming back to that stock PAL 65XE, no amount of 'software issues' are going to make the host machine completely fail to see that there is a cartridge plugged into the back of the machine, so clearly there is some scope for issues on both sides (hardware and software, that is). Likewise, if cards are experiencing data corruption during already instigated transfers, it seems the protocol has been properly observed and something else is at play.

 

While browsing the Internet the other day for articles on SD card transmission errors, I encountered one article where it was stressed that the slow clock for SD cards should not be more than 400KHz. Not 460KHz, not 440KHz, but 400KHz. I guess some cards are extremely fussy about such things.

12 hours ago, remowilliams said:

Are there any utilities or test batteries that can be run automated repeatedly to ensure everything is 100% and no data corruption is occurring?

You can try running Drac030's RWCRC tool (available from his website) on APT partitions. This tool writes a 1MB or so file full of CRC checked data, then reads it back and scrupulously tests for errors. If the file reads back perfectly, it's likely that your system is stable. This tool will work just fine with the SIDE3.SYS driver if you don't have U1MB.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by flashjazzcat
typos