SIDE 3 preorder

[KPeter]

5 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3/

Just for sure. In the ZIP file there is a SDX449e.ROM file. What is  the XEX is doing during flash process with this ROM file?

If I start flasher, I can see only a few (4?)  lines (maybe 64kB altogether flashed?) written on monitor.

 

Thank you,

Peter

[tsom]

I may have asked this, and missed the answer - if I switch the Side3 to SpartaDosX mode and boot and get the D1: prompt, should I see anything on the "internal" drive? I keep seeing videos of booting into SDX and there are all sorts of utilities. Yes, my sd card is all one FAT partition (no APT, still figuring on how to do that - I just got it to recognize that FAT partition), and the APT partition directions say "boot into SDX and launch the FDISK utility (or whatever it's called). I have no utilities, on any of the drives. Just wondering...

[flashjazzcat]

34 minutes ago, tsom said:

I have no utilities, on any of the drives.

So if you type FDISK at the SDX command prompt, what happens?

[tsom]

I get an error (don't recall the exact number, will have to go check it, but 138 sounds right?) It's acting as if there are no disks in the drives. I do have a FujiNet, but I've tried with it removed. Can't get a directory of the disk either.

Edited December 22, 2020 by tsom

[flashjazzcat]

2 minutes ago, tsom said:

I get an error (don't recall the exact number, will have to go check it, but 138 sounds right?) It's acting as if there are no disks in the drives.

In the absence of any SIO connected or APT (HDD) volumes, the only drive present is the 'CAR:' volume (i.e. the ROM disk built into SDX). FDISK is present on that volume in the SDX ROM I am using here (which was provided by Trub and is permalinked on my website and preinstalled on every SIDE3 cartridge), and 'CAR:' is the first volume referenced in the system path of the default CONFIG.SYS. So if you type 'FDISK', it should immediately be fetched and loaded from CAR:FDISK.COM.

 

If you type DIR CAR: at the SDX command line prompt, you should see FDISK.COM listed.

[KPeter]

1 hour ago, tsom said:

I do have a FujiNet, but I've tried with it removed.

Hmmm, FujiNet makes me headache also. It tries to push its ROM drive like D1: ... I could not find for now, how to correctly configure together (w/o) SIDE3 or U1MB. At some U1MB configuration it says SIO conflict (or something similar). But, without FujiNet I never experienced loosing APT or FDISK.

 

Peter

[tsom]

Booting up and typing dir at the d1: prompt gives “138 device does not respond”

 

Typing “dir car:” does give a directory listing of lots of files. 
 

Typing “disk” just seems to lock things up then responds with “Error loading d: FDISK3.OVL” and I have to reset. 
 

My FujiNet is attached but I have it switched off. 

[flashjazzcat]

9 minutes ago, tsom said:

Booting up and typing dir at the d1: prompt gives “138 device does not respond”

Because there is nothing mounted there. This is perfectly proper.

9 minutes ago, tsom said:

Typing “disk” just seems to lock things up then responds with “Error loading d: FDISK3.OVL” and I have to reset. 

If you mean 'FDISK', and an error is produced, I imagine you have no extended RAM and MEMLO is therefore too high to do much useful with all the necessary drivers present in memory.

Edited December 22, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[tsom]

1 minute ago, flashjazzcat said:

Because there is nothing mounted there. This is perfectly proper.

If you mean 'FDISK', and an error is produced, I imagine you have no extended RAM and MEMLO is therefore too high to do much useful with all the necessary drivers present in memory.

This is on a 130xe so I guess that’s not even enough? I guess I’ll not be bothering using SDX then. 
 

I’m also having issues just trying to have a cartridge mounted (Atari editor/assemble) and boot with a dos disk on the FujiNet. Most times it looks like it’s going to boot, but ends up at a blank screen. I’ve tried a couple language cart images (Mac65, SynAssembler, Action). Just can’t get it to with with a cart and a simple dos image. 
 

thanks for your help either way!

[flashjazzcat]

Just now, tsom said:

This is on a 130xe so I guess that’s not even enough?

Perhaps the CONFIG.SYS on the CAR: device doesn't begin with 'USE BANKED'; if it does, it should utilise the extra 64K on your 130XE, and load the bulk of all drivers there. I don't prepare the SDX images (which are maintained by DLT), however: @trub does.

2 minutes ago, tsom said:

I guess I’ll not be bothering using SDX then. 

See here for documentation:

 

http://sdx.atari8.info/index.php?show=en_docs

 

There is also an imaging tool, which allows you to add and remove files to and from the CAR: device, and to edit the CONFIG.SYS file built into the ROM filesystem:

 

http://sdx.atari8.info/index.php?show=download&file=sdx_files/SDXImageUser.zip

 

You would have to extract the ROM from the ATR in order to do this, however; since I'm currently coding an update to the U1MB firmware (targetting formal SIDE3 support, among other things), I don't really have time to investigate things or provide a copious how-to at this precise moment, but suffice it to say for now that if you have a 130XE, you should be able to use SDX without problems once things are configured correctly.

6 minutes ago, tsom said:

I’m also having issues just trying to have a cartridge mounted (Atari editor/assemble) and boot with a dos disk on the FujiNet. Most times it looks like it’s going to boot, but ends up at a blank screen. I’ve tried a couple language cart images (Mac65, SynAssembler, Action). Just can’t get it to with with a cart and a simple dos image. 

FujiNet (which I have here, but have not had time to explore properly yet) seems to present a lot of confusing problems when used with SIDE3 and SDX in general. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the FujiNet menu doesn't boot when you start SDX on the Atari, but I don't yet know just how much of a limitation this is (and this would not be an issue unique to SIDE3).

 

In any case, does the chosen cartridge boot without any FujiNet volumes present? Does the simple DOS image boot without the emulated cart present?

[tsom]

2 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Perhaps the CONFIG.SYS on the CAR: device doesn't begin with 'USE BANKED'; if it does, it should utilise the extra 64K on your 130XE, and load the bulk of all drivers there. I don't prepare the SDX images (which are maintained by DLT), however: @trub does.

I did look at the CONFIG.SYS and it does start with USE BANKED

3 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

FujiNet (which I have here, but have not had time to explore properly yet) seems to present a lot of confusing problems when used with SIDE3 and SDX in general. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the FujiNet menu doesn't boot when you start SDX on the Atari, but I don't yet know just how much of a limitation this is (and this would not be an issue unique to SIDE3).

 

In any case, does the chosen cartridge boot without any FujiNet volumes present? Does the simple DOS image boot without the emulated cart present?

Yes and yes, they both work separately just fine. They just don't seem to play nice together.  

[KPeter]

5 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the FujiNet menu doesn't boot when you start SDX on the ATARI ...

Right. I copied FujiNet files on an SD drive and use CONFIG.COM to start FujiNet. Generally, using FujiNet from U1MB or any SIDE cartridges has lots of issues ... need some more developments.

Peter

[flashjazzcat]

24 minutes ago, tsom said:

I did look at the CONFIG.SYS and it does start with USE BANKED

What do you see if you type MEM at the SDX prompt after a normal SDX boot? A picture of the output or a verbatim copy of the text would be ideal.

24 minutes ago, tsom said:

They just don't seem to play nice together.

I'd feel more confident if I was actually experienced in using FujiNet, but the top and bottom of the situation is that there is nothing about SIDE3's cartridge emulation model which should (or could) interfere with the operation or a serial IO attached device. The loader mounts the cartridge, and then reboots the computer. The computer thereby boots with nothing but what it believes to be a cartridge attached. If said cartridge has issues booting DOS before it initilaises itself, it may be a problem of the cartridge image itself.

 

You could try disabling ATR support in the loader settings, just to be doubly sure the loader isn't putting a RAM-based OS in place. This should only happen when stand-alone ATR booting is attempted (i.e. you'd have to mount some disk images first), but since this is not needed with FujiNet, SIO2PC, or anything else on the serial bus, you could turn it off.

18 minutes ago, KPeter said:

Generally, using FujiNet from U1MB or any SIDE cartridges has lots of issues ... need some more developments.

I assume the developments are needed on the FujiNet side, then, since when SDX is disabled on the U1MB and there are no SIDE hard disk partitions competing with FujiNet for drive identifiers, there is no possible impediment in the way of FujiNet or any other SIO-attached device booting properly. Nothing about U1MB is designed specifically to support FujiNet, and if FujiNet behaves like a real disk drive, it should 'just work'. Circumstantially, the only U1MB feature relating to the serial bus which the FujiNet may directly exploit is the U1MB's built-in high-speed SIO driver, and I already heard that FujiNet works very nicely with that.

Edited December 22, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[KPeter]

12 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

I assume the developments are needed on the FujiNet side,

Yes, it is correct. I forgot to mention FujiNet like a real source ... sorry. I just was experimenting with it and seeing issues I removed it from the SIO chain. The issues are a "litle" disturbing.

 

Peter

[800_Rocks]

Hi - Some very basic questions.  Sorry if they have been asked before.  So far I am mostly pure old school hardware (400, 800, 600XL, 800XL, 130XE,  several 1050s, an 810, a XF551 and a couple 1010 and a 410 recorders with lots of carts, 5.25" diskettes and many tapes).  I do have SIO2PC/APE and I continue to convert many of my diskettes to ATRs (so ATRs are very important to me).  My one big 'new' technology is an SDriveMax which is nice in that it works with my physical drives and recorders.  I'm studying the new tech for the 8bits such as FujiNet and SIDE3.  I have my eye on SpartaDosX and a battery backed clock would be nice.   I have zero solder skills.  I am US-based (North Carolina).  The SIDE3 looks very nice.  I appreciate help with these questions:

 

1) Which unmodified 8bits can I use with SIDE3?  Is there a minimum amount of RAM required for 1a) SIDE3 and 1b) SpartaDosX?
2) If SIDE3 works with an 800 (or 400) can I still close the cartridge door? (obviously I would not have access to the SIDE3 buttons)

3) Can I continue to use all of my SIO devices (physical disk drives and recorders and SDriveMax) with SIDE3?

4) If 'yes' for '3'   Can I copy physical diskettes to 'new' ATRs on SIDE3?

5) Given the rear cartridge slot of the 130XE I assume a 600XL or 800XL would be ideal for the SIDE3 given the open, top cartridge slot.  Repeat of question 1 but can an stock 800XL with 64K of RAM support SIDE3 and SpartaDosX?

 

I see the SIDE3 available at the https://thebrewingacademy.com/ in the US and https://lotharek.pl/ in Poland.  However, I do not see answers to my questions in the descriptions or list of capabilities on these sites (perhaps something that should be added).  I note that their website says The Brewing Academy will be taking inventory in the month of January so orders may be delayed.

 

6)   Other than the two sites listed above, are there other US sites where SIDE3 can be purchased?

 

Thanks in Advance!

[candle]

1) any machine with 64k or more (that excludes 400, 800 and unmodified 600xl)

2) it does not, and no you can't

3) yes you can

4) depends on software, but technically yes

5) it can, but having 64k machine greatly limits what you can do with SpartaDosX (memlo is too high)

 

[+ZuluGula]

1 hour ago, 800_Rocks said:

6) Other than the two sites listed above, are there other US sites where SIDE3 can be purchased?

It's not listed on the website right now, but since they sell some of Lothareks stuff, they might have it in the future. 

http://amigaonthelake.com/atari-8-bit/

 

You can always ask.

[tsom]

On 12/22/2020 at 5:02 PM, flashjazzcat said:

What do you see if you type MEM at the SDX prompt after a normal SDX boot? A picture of the output or a verbatim copy of the text would be ideal.

Meant to send this the other day...

 

[flashjazzcat]

13 minutes ago, tsom said:

Meant to send this the other day...

Thanks! MEMLO looks fine, so you have a corrupted SDX ROM (bad flash) or some catastophic hardware problem (if reflashing doesn't help).

 

EDIT: Check that all three FDISK?.OVL files are present and have the hidden attribute set:

 

DIR +H CAR:FDISK?.OVL

 

Should produce:

Volume:    Cart 4.4
Directory: MAIN

FDISK0   OVL   7643 17-03-20 22:03
FDISK1   OVL   8021 16-12-19 20:30
FDISK2   OVL   7284 16-12-19 20:30
0 FREE SECTORS

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by flashjazzcat

[tsom]

1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Thanks! MEMLO looks fine, so you have a corrupted SDX ROM (bad flash) or some catastophic hardware problem (if reflashing doesn't help).

 

EDIT: Check that all three FDISK?.OVL files are present and have the hidden attribute set:

 

DIR +H CAR:FDISK?.OVL

 

Should produce:

Volume:    Cart 4.4
Directory: MAIN

FDISK0   OVL   7643 17-03-20 22:03
FDISK1   OVL   8021 16-12-19 20:30
FDISK2   OVL   7284 16-12-19 20:30
0 FREE SECTORS

 

Yes, that is exactly what I see. However, in my screenshot, and when I try to run FDISK, it says it can't find FDISK3.OVL ?

[tsom]

Well I just refreshed SDX and I can now get into FDISK. Must have been a bad flash the last time I did it.

 

Thanks!

[KPeter]

Not stable boot of SIDE3's SDX 4.49e.

 

Despite of SpartaDOS is disabled in U1MB, ATARI is randomly booting from U1MB's SpartaDOS 4.49.

It happens in booth cases: PBI BIOS is Enabled or Disabled and if D1: is SDX Formatted HD.

More frequent is this behavior in Disabled PBI BIOS status.

 

If D1: is DOS 2.x or MyDOS it starts booting that OS-s.

 

If ATARI is booting with Boot Error message (with SDX formatted disk in D1:)

it needs to push SIDE3 Reset Button + ATARI Reset Button to boot from SIDE3 the SDX 4.49e.

 

It differs from SIDE2 cartridge where ATARI is booting always from SIDE2's SDX ... if switch is down.

 

Is that SIDE3's "behavior" standard or waiting for some update of SIDE3 or SDX 4.49e ?

 

I have flashed the latest updates in U1MB and SIDE3.

 

Thank you,

Peter

[KPeter]

I found a strange behavior with CONFIG.SYS.  (SIDE3 Cartridge)

 

If in U1MB the setup is the following:

 

1. SpartaDOS X: Disabled

   2. PBI BIOS:     : Disabled

      3. D1: configured from SIDE3's SD Card (including CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT )

          The system boot is starting with CONFIG.SYS from CAR: drive, ignoring CONFIG.SYS on D1: drive but using AUTOEXEC.BAT from D1:

 

      3. D1: configured from SIO2SD or SIO2PC  (including CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT )

          SpartaDOS 4.49e is using CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT from D1:, ignoring CONFIG.SYS on CAR:

 

1. SpartaDOS X: Disabled

   2. PBI BIOS:     : Enabled

      3. D1: configured from SIDE3's SD Card or SIO2SD or SIO2PC (all including CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT )

          SpartaDOS 4.49e is using CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT from D1:, ignoring CONFIG.SYS on CAR:

 

Is it right?!

Peter

[+DrVenkman]

8 minutes ago, KPeter said:

If in U1MB the setup is the following:

 

1. SpartaDOS X: Disabled

   2. PBI BIOS:     : Disabled

      3. D1: configured from SIDE3's SD Card (including CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT )

          The system boot is starting with CONFIG.SYS from CAR: drive, ignoring CONFIG.SYS on D1: drive but using AUTOEXEC.BAT from D1:

 

No mystery. If you're using the U1MB, you *must* enable the PBI BIOS to enable disk mounting and drive emulation via the SIDE/SIDE2/SIDE3.

[KPeter]

RAMDISK.SYS v. BASIC XE 4.2 (or BASIC XE 4.1)  issue.

 

Previously here I mentioned an issue with BASIC XE using its Extension File of BASICXE.OSS, when running of BASIC XE from SDX with CAR command in many cases ATARI freezes, only Cold start helps.

With some mods in SDX 4.49e it seemingly was eliminated only for the first using of CAR command. Running BASIC XE using again CAR commands, leads to the same issue. ... finally the reason was found

 

Experimenting with CONFIG.SYS configuration I found, the BASIC XE issue is related to RAMDISK.SYS used w/o parameters.

Removing DEVICE RAMDISK.SYS from Config.sys this isseue is gone.

 

Peter