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2 hours ago, KPeter said:

It is not a problem, if some one is interested to read lots of different info - let do it for him/her. Why do I need to access to the forum, if there is a well prepared webpage

to have easy and updated info for every one.

For the majority of individuals, if I simply uploaded an update to my website and didn't immediately link it in this thread and on social media, they wouldn't know it existed. I don't have an enormous amount of time for forums myself lately (as evidenced by my generally reduced posting frequency), but I manage to keep up to date with the latest beta versions of my favourite software by glancing at the front page of the forum once every day. You appear to be projecting about the method of delivery and notification because you're actually aggrieved that the update you're looking for hasn't been released yet. The reason for this is that updates take a long time to prepare and test (re: Trub's comments above). Moreover, it is entirely consistent with all my ongoing projects that I release beta/test versions on the forums and host the final point releases on my website. It has always been this way.

 

In any case, I am aware that it is time that version 0.19 of the loader is at least hosted on my website, since that's what ships on current SIDE3 batches, and those who purchased the cart previously may wish to update. Most if not all have already done so (having downloaded the update from this thread), but I will endeavour to at least put current versions on the website tomorrow.

Edited by flashjazzcat

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Jon, I really appreciate every help. Maybe it is understandable, how you also expect understanding your side, I also have limited time to surf on AtariAge (it is very rare, really I am happy if I find time for my hobby and not wasting

time with endless investigations for elementary info). For that reason I rather go to check your or DLT's webpages, because that access is fast, symple and clear to find answer - if it is (of course) ) there. What I would like to see

there it is just an actualized (dated) info, about the progress avoiding users to search with no end on crowded by mostly not interesting text overstuffed forums. Like you, others also are fighting to have time for their things to

do in their daily life. If the people see some short words showing life on project, it does not need any other writing explanation, searching in tremendous information on Forums. If I really need really something special to know,

what is maybe only on AtariAge, I will go there to search for it. But in this case why to do it, if the major source of info has its place on your or DLT webpage? And - of course - if it works that way what I am proposing here, you

never need to waste time answering on (stupid) questions ... and maybe to deal with some disappointed people, like me  :)

 

Anyway, your projects are really great I appreciate it a lot, they helped me to go back to my old hobby with ATARI after decades.

 

Thank you,

Peter

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Well, you have in the past downloaded firmware from my website and spent time asking questions via direct emails which I had to spend valuable time answering when the information was already discussed on forums or believed to be explained in readme files and manuals. I am not getting into a pissing contest about who is the busiest and whose time is most valuable. Normally, anyone whose hobby is vintage computers acknowledges that they will spend time investigating, researching and overcoming problems. You appear to want to cut straight to the chase without any extraneous discussion or unwanted information. The reason I suggested you join the forum is that it is a great source of information.

 

Anyway: the majority appear able to operate using existing provisions, and presumably they have to fit their hobby around busy schedules too. As said before - things are announced here regardless of where they are hosted. Follow the topic or ignore it: it's your call. The squeaky wheel does not necessarily get the grease.

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Helo,

 

I updated SDX 4.49e in my SIDE3 with version from 11-20-2020. Finally the TD is working correctly.

I am not sure, the boot issue is belonging to DLT or it is part of the U1MB SIDE3 update from Jon?

 

a) BOOT ERROR text rolls after physical start of ATARI.    Solution: Pushing Reset button on SIDE3 + RESET on ATARI

b) Updating DATE - ATARI freeze.                                  Solution: Pushing Reset button on SIDE3 + RESET on ATARI

    The entered date is correct after restart of ATARI

c) Update TIME - ATARI freeze.                                      Solution: Pushing Reset button on SIDE3 + RESET on ATARI

    The entered Time is correct after restart of ATARI

 

Physical restart does not influencing once entered Date and Time.

 

For now, just this 3 things.

Thank you,

Peter

 

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Jon,

 

Maybe you misunderstood. I am not ignoring AtariAge forum. You are right, lots of valuable information is there - for every one who are interested in special issues - which are probably

not in the center of my interests. But momentarily if there is no update, no reason to go there to spend time. If the update will be there, depending on my interest I will surf on pages.

To read in circles questions/answers on not finished SIDE3 does not solve the issues of SIDE3 - because it is exclusively your field and I cannot help you in this interesting job -

How you could see I reported my findings and I am waiting for solutions following up just your page, where you will put updates in future. To see progress with date indication is

fully satisfactory for me to see, the project is not dead-ended, there is some progress and time expectation you finish /solve it. Now, I rarely sitting down to my ATARI, because the

issues what I am waiting for solution on are disturbing, already known by you by me also. Just experimenting when I know, it is not working, also wasting time. I try to find different

way to fill my time usefully  ... I guess, it is understandable, like your deep interest to deal with forum and people, my interest can be totally different. If I can I happily help you, but I

am afraid just with findings and reporting them.

 

Sorry for honest opinion, my intention is not undercut, undervalue your excellent work and efforts and enthusiasm to work with AtariAge hobbyists, just I would like to use my own

time efficiently. That small thing with actualization on you webpage could be very helpful - but, I guess, not only for me. Lots of people will appreciate it. 

 

Sincerely,

Peter

 

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trub,  I found an additional issue. When I run BASIC XE 4.2 ROM from SIDE3 Loader and restart SDX 4.49e and activate TD, after CAR

command the Extension file is loading with short "colored junk" on the monitor and the BASIC starts up also, seemingly functional, but

the picture is blinking with 1 second period with colored fade mosaic, how the DATA/TIME bar on the top is updating.

I saw this effect with MS Basic with SIDE2. But now MS Basic is perfectly working with DATE/TIME bar together and the BASIC XE has

that totally same issue.

 

Peter

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So Jon - is there an update yet?  My special needs cause me to not want to be bothered to look back a few posts.  In the essence of efficiency, please don't reply to this thread but feel free to knock me up in the morning (those who need to get it will).

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12 hours ago, trub said:

We do not normally do this, but here is a SDX 4.49e (alpha) development version for SIDE3 available for download.

 

We usually release versions after good testing, even beta versions.

So, you use this version at your own risk, and since it contains work-in-progress code, some things may not work.

which part you haven't understood?

or you're merely reporting issues back?

if you're expecting issues to be fixed overnight then no - it won't happend

check again in a month - perhaps there will be something to fill your needs then

 

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10 hours ago, KPeter said:

If the update will be there, depending on my interest I will surf on pages.

There is no need to 'surf on pages'. Everyone else on the forum is able to pick up firmware releases in the manner I have described. Please stop talking around in circles and filling up the topic with pointless back and forth regarding how updates are announced and where they are hosted. Consider others for a moment; they now have to dig through a couple of pages of unproductive discussion, and Trub's link is now no longer on the last page.

10 hours ago, KPeter said:

I would like to use my own time efficiently.

Please learn how to do so, then. We cannot use your time efficiently for you. The resources you need to stay informed are numerous and at your fingertips. At the moment, this discussion is simply getting in the way of meaningful progress and making a mess of the thread.

Edited by flashjazzcat
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7 hours ago, KPeter said:

+Stephen, it looks like you are a joker or I missed something?

@KPeter You got it exactly, you have managed to hijack a good productive thread with pages of unnecessary comments that

have helped nobody, if you feel the need to do this, please start another thread and leave this one

 

Thanks in advance :)   

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11 hours ago, KPeter said:

When I run BASIC XE 4.2 ROM from SIDE3 Loader and restart SDX 4.49e and activate TD, after CAR

command the Extension file is loading with short "colored junk" on the monitor and the BASIC starts up also, seemingly functional, but

the picture is blinking with 1 second period with colored fade mosaic, how the DATA/TIME bar on the top is updating.

First, I assume that you have read the "Using BASIC XE Extensions" section in the SpartaDOS X manual.
Second, we are investigating this problem, but it may be related to Basic XE's incorrect handling of NMI interrupts, which may result in the incorrect operation of VBLK and DLI interrupts when using extension routines.

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The BASIC XE extensions issue appears to be a recurring theme. I'm not overly familiar with the intricacies of the extensions, but I have a few questions and observations:

  • BASIC XE 4.1 (OSS 'Type B') works with the extensions
  • BASIC XE 4.2 (034M) hangs on the extension loading screen. If you tap a ley, you can hear the OS key click, but the loading screen never clears

We can discount SDX here entirely since I don't even have it enabled during testing, but the above scenario is the same even in Altirra using the emulator's native cartridge mounting. 4.1 works, 4.2 doesn't. I don't know if extensions need to be matched to the BASIC XE version or what, but SIDE3's OSS cartridge emulation appears to faithfully duplicate the behaviour at least of Altirra's native cartridge emulation.

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trub, Jon, Draco thank you for your answers. Of course, I am familiar with issues using BASIC XE + Extension BASICXE.OSS (BASICXA.OSS).

I guessed, feedback is welcomed about the findings. I did only that, without any intentional criticism or malice or personal attacks on authors.

 

Unfortunately, I got in last hours lots of ironic attacks on my communication on these pages. Just to clear the picture. I was not the

initiator of the whole thing where the words ran high. I just simply and politely asked about the status on projects, because on the official

pages I could not find any answer on them, despite of frequent visiting the pages for updates. Like in past I tried to get answer from

the main actors of ATARI projects, in long period of time without any reaction.

 

My question ALWAYS related to some evident issues or was reports about findings, what the authors are always asking for.

So, I did not do any wrong thing or I personally did not attacked anyone to get answer with total ignorance. I understood, there is a

forum (AtariAge) where I can find answer on my questions or reports of finding ... Answers on my simple questions was not technical,

but blaming me I am disturbing people in their voluntary work. ... Finally I bought the products, did not still them to ask for free

support on them. Of course, if I am buying something, I expect some support for the products, not the teaching, how impatient I am. ...

I also do not believe, only the manufacturer of the products is benefiting from selling. ... Do not make my fool, please!

 

So, answer on simple question about the status, generated tirade of complain I am disturbing people with my senseless questions. ...

What's more, people, who was not addressed, making inappropriate impertinent notes on this pages,  addressing to my.

Please, keep them to yourself!

 

So, I do not want to be that type of person. I still would like polite and constructive answer for concrete inquiry, without

personal blaming for something from past.

 

Again and lastly, what I proposed: In the word, where the products are selling, now mostly on internet and given to the public almost,

like prototype, the good practice is to inform customers about the progress on the projects. If the customer pays for something,

he/she has full right to know, what can be expected, where and when can find updates on evident issues. With the easy example

I finish this "communication". Maybe some people are familiar with LTspice project, millions of people are using that simulator.

The perfect practice of the author (I know him personally) this excellent project was always to inform the users about the progress,

changes on the project on the webpage or directly in the Change Log file with dated info. This info was always public with intention

to inform users about the progress. ... I am expecting something similar on Jon's or/and DLT's page ... It will avoid this situation,

what was not my intention to progress in personal attacks on me just for simple inquiries.

 

Best regards,

Peter

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5 minutes ago, KPeter said:

In the word, where the products are selling, (...) like prototype, the good practice is to inform customers about the progress on the projects. If the customer pays for something, he/she has full right to know, what can be expected, where and when can find updates on evident issues. (...) Maybe some people are familiar with LTspice project, millions of people are using that simulator. The perfect practice of the author (I know him personally) this excellent project was always to inform the users about the progress, changes on the project on the webpage or directly in the Change Log file with dated info. This info was always public with intention to inform users about the progress. ... I am expecting something similar on Jon's or/and DLT's page

As the mention of the "DLT page" was made, I first of all have to repeat here what trub wrote above: DLT is not selling anything to anyone. The "SpartaDOS X Upgrade Project" is a purely hobbyist project being kept alive all these years for our private interest and satisfaction. This is not a commercial, corporate website, and we do not have a PR department taking care of customer relations.

 

Also, as the project is not commercial, it uses up our resources which we have to acquire in other areas of life. This means that it can be cared of only in the someone's spare time.

 

As for the changelog, of course, a current Changelog for SpartaDOS X exists. Its current instance (since 7 May 2011) is 364368 bytes of mostly cryptic, technical mixture of Polish and English language intended for private records rather than for public view. You do not want to see that :D

 

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1 hour ago, KPeter said:

Unfortunately, I got in last hours lots of ironic attacks on my communication on these pages. Just to clear the picture. I was not the

initiator of the whole thing where the words ran high. I just simply and politely asked about the status on projects, because on the official

pages I could not find any answer on them, despite of frequent visiting the pages for updates.

There is no causational effect between repeatedly visiting a website and new content appearing. This clearly annoys you.

 

Let's be clear: I suggested you join the forum instead of emailing me directly with every one of your (copious) enquiries. You then email Lotharek, who forwards your email to me. You send me a personal forum message with no introduction: just a bullet-list of issues/complaints. Then, in the space of three weeks between November 7 and now, you post three times in this topic asking if there have been further updates when clearly there have been none (although there has been an ongoing discussion regarding what is going on behind the scenes with respect to bug fixes and forthcoming features). In your most recent post asking about updates, you imply that a lack of said updates signals that development has stopped entirely, and complain about a lack of responses from DLT. So: you might consider this a 'polite' enquiry, but I detect clear elements of irritation and antagonism there. This is hardly unprecedented, given the terse wording of your initial PM (which - it must be said - elicited a similarly curt response).

 

In any case, I answer your most recent enquiry by reminding you that a) interim updates and betas will appear in this thread, and b) that all firmware updates (point releases, betas, etc) will be announced in this thread regardless of whether they are hosted on my website or not. End of discussion. If you don't feel able to monitor this thread for updates and consider yourself so special that I must change my entire method of update delivery and announcement, that's a limitation you're going to have to overcome. If legions of users were vocally dissatisfied with how I have delivered firmware updates for the past five years (for U1MB, Incognito, SIDE2, etc), I might be inspired to take drastic action, but as things stand myself, Candle and others are doing the best we can in the face of a large workload, high expectations, high ambitions to exceed said expectations, and a lot of complexity.

 

Having one special snowflake making a lot of noise is not going to make things happen any faster. In fact, it tends to completely sap enthusiasm. And every time I explain the exact same process (updates announced in this thread), I'm presented with a passive-aggressive variation on the same list of objections, with the edge taken off by some acknowledgement of one's attainments. This has been going on for almost twenty-four hours now and is starting to become extremely tiresome.

1 hour ago, KPeter said:

Finally I bought the products, did not still them to ask for free support on them.

I'm afraid that the volume of emails you were sending me in the past suggested you were under the impression that you had bought a lifetime service agreement, with guaranteed quick response times. When unable to get a reply from one email address, you try another, then another. I tried to encourage you to seek answers elsewhere so that the burden of providing responses might be eased and shared. Of course I am happy to support the products in which I am involved and I take sole ownership for any issues in firmware I have written, but try to remember we are essentially hobbyists dealing with forty year old vintage computers here. You bought a SIDE3 cartridge which basically does what it says on the tin, and efforts are being made by three separate parties (DLT, Candle, and myself) on addressing various teething problems. SW-XEGS emulation is fixed in the latest JED. SDX is improving. SD card stability was dramatically improved by a recent loader update. Things are happening. They will be announced here when released. End of.

1 hour ago, KPeter said:

So, answer on simple question about the status

Answered, half a dozen times.

1 hour ago, KPeter said:

If the customer pays for something, he/she has full right to know, what can be expected, where and when can find updates on evident issues.

I have told you, repeatedly. And please don't let your grievances tempt you to start crapping on the project. Status is 'being worked on'. Location: this thread. Also the Atari8 Facebook page, and Discord. If that's not satisfactory, I suggest you contact Lotharek.

1 hour ago, KPeter said:

It will avoid this situation, what was not my intention to progress in personal attacks on me just for simple inquiries.

You come a across as demanding, needy, and impatient. I already sacked one client this year.

Edited by flashjazzcat
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At this point I think KPeter should buy you whatever bottle of alcohol you would prefer for all the extra stress he has given!  Also, don'tdrink and solder, it never ends well.  Drinking and cofing can have fun tlresults though!

Literally though, a person who has been working on these old computers and been in the communities forever, I know that at any moment if you bite the hand that feeds you, eventually you will get no food... so don't piss off the people who make these fantastic pieces of hardware / software for us!  It isn't like any of it makes them rich, they do it for the LOVE of the platform.  It is really about devices they want themselves and us mortals are just lucky they wish to share.  I have seen far too many projects that were just canceled because some asshole decided he deserved more than others.  So just chill out, @KPeter

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Jon, I am sorry, I guess, it is losing any meaning to answer for your detailed, very personally taken things.

Go back to the beginning of communication. I really politely asked a question in 1-2 sentences, not accusing

anyone with ignoring some "responsibilities" for something. What did you expected, when you are always

answering with complaining about my few e-mails from past, maybe in months time distances between them.

I guess you were who inspired me do not hesitate to ask or report something, what I found or guess it is not

working correctly. I did not think it is really that big issue how you are painting it in the front of the AtariAge

public. I understood, what you wanted, I rarely visiting forums, but I followed your wish. Despite of aversions

to do this, I agreed to follow your advise. If there is nothing to ask, believe me, I never go to find answer that

way, what you wished. I just was asking ... nothing else ...

 

Why was asking? Because I had feeling, I missed something searching on the official webpages of these projects.

If the answer is short, not blaming me for past communication between us I am fully satisfied with it.

You are always react very irritated ... despite I do not attack you with any my inquiries ...

 

To trub and Draco. It is really generous to do thing voluntarily and to give the results to the public.

I always appreciate(d) it. trub sent me a link for latest update on SDX 4.49e, what I thank him very much.

He wrote it is the may responsibility to use it. Of course, I took it with that knowledge and I am not

complaining. I just sent back my findings, like a feedback, the information to help the DLT group if they

missed that. I guess, nothing is wrong on it. I wrote, I can see, the TD command issue on preliminary

release of SDX 4.49e was solved, but what I found, the originally working BASIC XE 4.2 (thank you Jon

to give me the files) on SDX 4.49e is not working correctly against release of SDX 4.49e from April 2020.

Of course, there I found the issue, related to the RESET on ATARI, to use again CAR command it leads

to freeze of BASIC XE. If the RESET button is not used repeated use of CAR leads to correct work of

BASIC XE. With latest release from trub the BASIC XE 4.2 used with previous "e" version is crashing

with blinking picture and colored structure on it. Is it wrong to give feedback about it? Hmmm.

Versions of BASIC XE 4.1, after a few modification by Eric was working perfectly under SDX 4.49, looks

like issues, listed on BASIC XE manual and SDX documentation, was solved perfectly. So, AGAINST !!!

I do not blame anyone for some bugs, it is understandable in the development process - but do not

be irritated, if I report that bugs. If not me, some one else will report it. Will you be irritated with that?

 

I should fully understand, the current pandemic situation in the world make us very irritated, but it

does not mean, we have to be bad against each other. Really, I did not wanted, this whole communication,

started with my really simple inquiry will lead to this nasty end. I try to forgot it and deeply appologize

if some ones personal feeling was touched by my reactions.

 

Peter

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30 minutes ago, KPeter said:

the originally working BASIC XE 4.2 (thank you Jon to give me the files) on SDX 4.49e is not working correctly against release of SDX 4.49e from April 2020. Of course, there I found the issue, related to the RESET on ATARI, to use again CAR command it leads to freeze of BASIC XE. If the RESET button is not used repeated use of CAR leads to correct work of BASIC XE. With latest release from trub the BASIC XE 4.2 used with previous "e" version is crashing with blinking picture and colored structure on it.

It perfectly okay to give feedback, but for example I am currently not able to reproduce any problem with BXE 4.2:

 

obraz.thumb.png.671d2cc6a7ba743aaf046dcce1c586dd.png

 

This is the current 4.49e build, nothing important has changed in the CAR.COM since April, but I am only able to test this on emulator, this is not SIDE3 build, and I do not have the matching BXE Extension disk (nor an idea, how I could use it, if I had).

 

So:

 

1) the issue is not necessarily directly related to SDX software in general, it may be a problem with the specific SIDE3 build, or with SIDE3 itself.

 

2) could you please provide steps to reproduce the issue and all the necessary files (BXE Extension for 4.2 is enough, as I apparently have a BXE 4.2 cart image).

 

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@KPeter

 

There was a LOT of email correspondence; I didn't mind at all at first, but the volume of emails eventually became quite burdensome. The same person who characterises checking a forum topic once a week as searching through unmanageably large amounts of irrelevant information now seeks to downplay the frequency of his email correspondence such that it could not possibly consume too much of my time. Erm... OK.

 

Nevertheless, I think I can detect an apology in there somewhere, which I happily accept on condition that we please drop the matter now. I gladly apologise for anything I have said which inadvertently caused offence. I am currently debugging the loader, so this entire discussion is - ironically enough - keeping me from getting it finished.

 

BTW: Muh pandemic, etc, has nothing to do with the levels of irritation from this point of view at least; being nagged while doing my best to work on complex projects is guaranteed to shorten my temper at the best of times. SIDE3 has required a LOT of time and effort from everyone involved, and the ideas I have for ongoing improvements will consume yet more time over the coming months. You have plenty to look forward to, so let's please try to see the positives. :)

 

Edited by flashjazzcat

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Jon, please stop blaming ... you are totally out of the original question. It does not make feeling of anyone better.

I asked for updates - you totally ignored my polite inquiries and now you blame me I was bothering you. If you

remember, we had before very healthy and friendly communication and you always appreciated my contribution

by my findings to improve the system. I never wanted to turn the things to this way. You changed your mind,

what very supersized me, because I did not give you any reason for it. I am very wondering on your strange

behavior making me your enemy, repeating meant wrong intentions from my side. Please, I am asking you to stop it.

 

Thank you and have nice evening.

Peter

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7 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

BASIC XE 4.2 (034M) hangs on the extension loading screen. If you tap a ley, you can hear the OS key click, but the loading screen never clears

1) type GR.0, hit Return and see what happens.

 

2) you are sure that it is the correct cartridge type? Here it works as 043M (under emulation). Attached as 034M it hangs indeed.

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3 minutes ago, drac030 said:

1) type GR.0, hit Return and see what happens.

Brilliant! The editor came right up. :) Thanks.

3 minutes ago, drac030 said:

2) you are sure that it is the correct cartridge type? Here it works as 043M (under emulation). Attached as 034M it hangs indeed.

Here's the image in question:

 

Basic_XE_4.2.car

 

Type 03 (034M) and appears to work normally when mounted as such; just subject to the strange extension workaround you explained above. Most odd. I wondered if the extensions made any direct references to the banking registers or were otherwise tied to a particular ROM version.

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