Which to buy: Side3 vs AVG Cart?

[xxl]

11 hours ago, BillC said:

FJC mentioned in post# 29 that 4-180kb ATRs would almost fill the available RAM, so approximately 720kb maximum.

 

http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3633

 

works?

[flashjazzcat]

4 hours ago, xxl said:

http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3633

 

works?

This demo pointlessly writes non-zero values to DUNUSE ($307; used at bits 16-23 of the LBA sector number in the U1MB PBI BIOS, IDE Plus BIOS, etc) when attempting IO on a 130K disk image. The resulting IO error (bad sector number) is ignored by the demo loader, and errors pile up as SIOV is subsequently called with the prior error number left in DSTATS. Patching out use of DUNUSE for disk images (which I would consider) allows it to get as far as the next hang, which is an endless loop which is presumably supposed to be terminated by an interrupt handler which never ran. Very often this is because of some innate reliance of serial IO timings, and I'm not really prepared to artificially lower transfer speeds to compensate for such things.

[xxl]

so it doesn't work. Neither IRQ nor pooling procedures are working. Anyone else have doubts which cards are better?

Case closed.

[flashjazzcat]

2 minutes ago, xxl said:

Neither IRQ nor pooling procedures are working.

Yes, because of unnecessary assumptions made about data transfer rate I guess, but this won't stop you from leveraging the situation as anti-anything-made-by-Candle propaganda. I think most people understand that this is what's going on, and that your proclamations are based on heavy bias. As already said: I own all devices under discussion and acknowledge the relative merits of each one, but personally I like plenty of RAM and faster IO than what is possible with serial devices. I can live with resorting to Respeqt and SIO2PC on those rare occasions I need to run a 'loosely' coded demo.

[xxl]

you can explain to yourself how you would like, this device have serious drawbacks. Don't be offended by the facts.

 

maybe at least this works? http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-eidolon-_s1806.html

Edited July 28, 2020 by xxl

[xxl]

16 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

but personally I like plenty of RAM and faster IO than what is possible with serial devices.

sorry, I didn't know that SIDE3 also serves as memory expansion.

[flashjazzcat]

Eidolon appears to rely on serial IO IRQ. By plenty of RAM, I refer to U1MB. Do continue with the one-man show, though. I hope people will be queuing to buy equipment which requires such advertising methods.

[+Stephen]

40 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Yes, because of unnecessary assumptions made about data transfer rate I guess, but this won't stop you from leveraging the situation as anti-anything-made-by-Candle propaganda. I think most people understand that this is what's going on, and that your proclamations are based on heavy bias. As already said: I own all devices under discussion and acknowledge the relative merits of each one, but personally I like plenty of RAM and faster IO than what is possible with serial devices. I can live with resorting to Respeqt and SIO2PC on those rare occasions I need to run a 'loosely' coded demo.

Maybe you can code a routine which only does single speed IO.  Screw speed, we can load games like it's 1980 again.  Maybe you could add cassette loading to drop the speed down to 600 baud?

 

While you're at it, make sure to put in a "kill" register too, that can be used to actively make sure code won't run on this device for no reason.

[flashjazzcat]

Just now, Stephen said:

Maybe you can code a routine which only does single speed IO.  Screw speed, we can load games like it's 1980 again.  Maybe you could add cassette loading to drop the speed down to 600 baud?

This may make a difference is a tiny number of corner cases (and I appreciate your input), but owing to the fact the matter was initially brought up for no reason other than trolling, I think I'll do absolutely nothing at all. I have better ways to spend my time than to try and appease someone who just wants to throw faeces around in the thread.  Anyone with a genuine interest in reporting bugs or suggesting features can do so in the main SIDE3 thread, or the U1MB/Incognito firmware threads. Thanks!

[tmp]

28 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Eidolon appears to rely on serial IO IRQ. By plenty of RAM, I refer to U1MB. Do continue with the one-man show, though. I hope people will be queuing to buy equipment which requires such advertising methods.

i didn't intend to take part in this silly discussion because i'm sure that in the end i'd end up looking like an idiot and make some enemies in the process which is really not worth it but since it's starting to take a turn i don't like, just a few words

 

- i don't control what other people post so please do not connect that with me or my cart

- as fjc correctly stated a few posts above, current capabilities of side3 are largely unknown, it's also unknown what it will be able to do once it's shipped or what it will be able to do in a year or two

so for a fair comparison, i'd give it a year or so and then compare the current (at that time) features of both carts, both standalone and with help of extra hw like u1mb

 

- and most importantly, i don't care, buy whatever you want SIDE3, just don't pull me into crap like this

 

thanks for paying attention and keep on fighting

Edited July 28, 2020 by tmp

[Mclaneinc]

I don't believe the SIDE3 will lose any sales because of xxl's obvious wish to rubbish it for just argumentative reasons, the Side series has known pedigree, the preorders show that, as a U1MB owner its a shame I can't play a game that seems to have been produced in a way just to spite the upgrade but I won't lose sleep over not playing it because the attitude shown just is wrong...These upgrades are there for devs to make use of, doing the opposite just isn't right..

[Mclaneinc]

3 minutes ago, tmp said:

i didn't intend to take part in this silly discussion because i'm sure that in the end i'd end up looking like an idiot and make some enemies in the progress which is really not worth it but since it's starting to take a turn i don't like, just a few words

 

- i don't control what other people post so please do not connect that with me or my cart

- as fjc correctly stated a few posts above, current capabilities of side3 are largely unknown, it's also unknown what it will be able to do once it's shipped or what it will be able to do in a year or two

so for a fair comparison, i'd give it a year or so and then compare the current (at that time) features of both carts, both standalone and with help of extra hw like u1mb

 

- and most importantly, i don't care, buy whatever you want, just don't pull me into crap like this

 

 

  

[flashjazzcat]

1 minute ago, tmp said:

i don't control what other people post so please do not connect that with me or my cart

That's not the intention; apologies if it seemed to be the case. I have no issues with you or your products (nothing but respect, in fact). It might be better to say that AVG does not require such adversarial promotion and we would do better if it didn't appear in the thread at all.

 

I really don't know what more one can do to promote non-adversarial, friendly competition, other than put this thread on ignore, which I have just done. Have fun.

[+mytek]

These kind of discussions always seem to go downhill on AA for some odd reason. Maybe it's better not to ask which is better to buy, but instead just pose the question of which multicart (in general) provides the simplest UI to learn and use. Which appears to have been of importance to the OP.

 

Edit: ...as also implied, which multicart provides the most bang for the buck, although that greatly depends on what features are important to the individual user.

 

[Marius]

Omg I did not check this topic for a day and in no time this derails into another shitty thread.

 

It is unbelievable how one person tries to pull SIDE or Flashjazzcat's work into bad light. We also saw this happening around U1MB.

 

You can always prefer to use another cart solution like AVG which is amazing of course. But discussions like seen in this thread are pointless and also dangerous.  Come on... candle and FJC put hundreds if not thousands of hours of development in SIDE 3. Both guys are known for their dedication and quality products and software. I am very interested in SIDE3.

 

I also love MyIDE2 and although meanwhile this device is no longer the most versatile or first choice HD interface I think it deserves a lot of respect.

 

So all the poisonous, negative and pointless discussion should stop right here.

[Marius]

2 hours ago, xxl said:

so it doesn't work. Neither IRQ nor pooling procedures are working. Anyone else have doubts which cards are better?

Case closed.

Pointless and completely irrelevant comparison. First of all is there much more than a (virtual) compatibility rate to decide which card is better. My blackbox is the only device (apart from my turbo freezer) that can break into a running program, so that is the best alternative? Think again.

 

Nothing beats the fabulous and intuitive user interface in FJC loader. That is what counts for me. You might think differently, but you can not decide for other people whether a case is closed or not. 

 

And even when Side3 would run 100% of the software I am pretty sure you will write some code not following any standard so it will crash on side3, like you also did on U1MB. 

 

[Mclaneinc]

Yup, in with @Marius on this, these are two great little carts even if one isn't quite finished (but the specs as listed are wonderful), all these items expand the use of our wonderful kit, what more could you want..

 

Which is best?

 

SIDE3 with its glorious history and feature combined with Jon's firmware which basically is a stamp of quality on any item VS AVG, a cart that started out to be a cheap average quality cart to allow an alternative in the cart market that has blossomed into a feature packed multi operational thing of beauty but each has its other uses, I'd have both if I had the cash.

 

Both reek quality and features...Money wise obviously the AVG wins BUT you need to look at the features the user wants, asking us lot is probably the wrong way to go, as said, we would all probably have both

[Mclaneinc]

1 minute ago, Marius said:

 

And even when Side3 would run 100% of the software I am pretty sure you will write some code not following any standard so it will crash on side3, like you also did on U1MB. 

 

 

Yes, and that is a side (oh bad pun) of devving we should not see, use the blooming devices to enhance your code..

[Marius]

21 hours ago, xxl said:

can every ATR be loaded from SIDE3? or only some, as it was with SIDE2?

AVG loads them all.

Could be a language thing but it is clear to me that you have to check the meaning of the word "some" again. The way you write it down now, is completely fake news. Side2 runs with U1MB almost all ATR's. There are some exceptions yes, but framing the compatibility with the word "some" is false and also disrespectful. 

[xxl]

1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said:

I don't believe the SIDE3 will lose any sales because of xxl's obvious wish to rubbish it for just argumentative reasons,

If, thanks to the number of devices sold, it will gain new functionalities or those that already have, will work properly, I think that everyone should buy two pieces ?

 

For u1mb users it seems to be a natural choice, the more so as it will probably replace side2, but comparing the complementary device (side3 + u1mb) with the complete one will always be controversial ?

[+Stephen]

49 minutes ago, Marius said:

Omg I did not check this topic for a day and in no time this derails into another shitty thread.

 

It is unbelievable how one person tries to pull SIDE or Flashjazzcat's work into bad light. We also saw this happening around U1MB.

 

SNIP

 

So all the poisonous, negative and pointless discussion should stop right here.

Yeah - funny how there's always one Xtra Xtra Large ass that seems to do this.

[xxl]

5 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Yeah - funny how there's always one Xtra Xtra Large ass that seems to do this.

indicating the weaknesses of the device is not politically correct ?

[+Stephen]

Keep up with your agenda of trash talking all product's candle makes.  We all see through it now, so it's easy to filter out the garbage.

[+mytek]

XXL you got my curiosity peaked. Why do you seem like the lone soldier when it comes to voicing a less than favorable review of either SIDE or U1MB? I ask this not to start a fight, but these products are very popular, and at least from what I've seen also very versatile and useful... so why the negativity?

 

[xxl]

I am not interested in the popularity of some solutions or the conversation about human impressions to which some here are trying to reduce the conversation.

 

As I wrote, pointing out the flaws is not politically correct ? Is something I wrote not a fact? Specifically what ?