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newtmonkey

General upscaler thread

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Some quick thoughts on the RT5x, after finally getting to spend some time with it (work has been busy).

 

+ Couldn't be simpler to operate, and looks great even on default settings

+ Supports composite, svideo, component, and SCART RGB

+ Great scanline filter options (especially with the latest FW; FV310 setting looks fantastic)

+ Motion-adaptive de-interlacing makes 480i games look great

+ Triple buffering option is like magic: instant resolution switching (or nearly so) means games like Silent Hill 1 are no longer a pain to play

 

- No way to adjust the position of the image, adjust aspect ratio, tweak image, etc.

- Menu is sort of clumsy, mostly because you can't freely navigate within each item but have to select (and thus apply) each setting in order to move on to the next one; not a huge deal, but annoying when you are tweaking

 

Overall, there is basically no reason to even consider a Framemeister over this, even if you could somehow find a FM for the same price.  It does everything the FM does, but better (though not as tweakable).

 

As for RT5x vs OSSC, I don't think it's so simple.  The OSSC is MUCH more tweakable and delivers excellent image quality even on generic settings; the ability to set the vertical line count to 224 exactly in the OSSC is a really killer feature imo, as well as the ability to tweak both the vertical and horizontal position to get the image perfectly centered.  I also like being able to save individual profiles on the OSSC.

 

---

 

After trying all the resolution settings, etc. on the RT5x, I ended up settling on the 1080 OVER setting which results in 24 vertical lines total being cut off.  1080 FILL works fine, too, but I wanted to get as close to 224 vertical resolution as possible since most 8/16-bit systems just display garbage, borders, black bars, etc. outside this area.  1080 OVER results in what is effectively 216 vertical lines, which is close enough for me.

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32 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

- No way to adjust the position of the image, adjust aspect ratio, tweak image, etc.

I emailed Mike a few days ago about a weird thing I encountered in 1080 under and he said he wants to focus on centering and cropping, which should fix my problem, so yeah, at least some of that stuff is coming.

 

34 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

Menu is sort of clumsy, mostly because you can't freely navigate within each item but have to select (and thus apply) each setting in order to move on to the next one; not a huge deal, but annoying when you are tweaking

All I have to say here is yes. It is definitely rather clumsy and it is absolutely my least favourite aspect of the thing.

 

Still, Mike announced that menu thingy on Twitter the other day, and it looks like there will be something like having profiles or something similar. Not sure how those options will compare to the OSSC, but it seems that it might be a while before those are implemented.

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I just got an RT5x Pro about 10 days ago. I am *very* impressed. The scanline options on the latest firmware look absolutely fantastic. Everything looks wonderful. It'd be nice to have the masking like the OSSC does so those solid colors on Genesis and NES backgrounds go away.

 

I do agree that the menu is clunky but the remote helps. If you just focus on left/right on the circle part of the remote and the center button to toggle options, it's good enough. Would be even better if up/down cycled through options while left and right switched options. 

 

The only piece of the puzzle remaining to solve is the Dreamcast. Would love for it to keep putting out the 480p signal which means RGBHV over VGA to start. Still have my OSSC set up with the VGA cable plugged in but I'd like to get down to an all-in-one box. 

 

I missed the one-hour preorder window on Retro Access by about 2 minutes. I had the Dreamcast SCART cable in my cart and the shop closed while I was checking out. Retro Gaming Cables in the UK sells a similar 15/31 KHz cable but it's out of stock. The closest I've found is this VGA + stereo RCA to SCART adapter on eBay from someone in Poland, but they're out of stock too. My final option is a Behar Bros Toro box, which can output both SCART and VGA but I'm not entirely sure that it does 31 KHz SCART. The instructions are not very clear.

 

Anybody have any suggestions? 

 

also, fun photo of my setup. I'm pleased.

 IMG_1701.thumb.jpg.1144233d146c029a41e2396facf2ef87.jpg

Edited by derFunkenstein
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On 10/25/2021 at 4:28 AM, derFunkenstein said:

Anybody have any suggestions? 

This

 

https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/142001379

 

+

 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2170

 

+ something for audio

 

should probably do it. Not sure if Surugaya will ship that overseas, as this specific one doesn't seem to be on their English website, but try it anyway. Don't buy Beharbros stuff. The color is wrong and the official Sega VGA box is apparently the best VGA box there is. I am using the official Sega VGA box + VGA cable + 3.5mm audio cable + OSSC. My monitor also supports VGA input, but it does not look as nice as using the OSSC.

Edited by Steven Pendleton
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Has anyone tried The Immortal (NES) on the RetroTink 5x?  I have to set vsync to "triple buffer" or it causes the RT to drop sync completely one second into the game.  However, even with triple buffer on, I get a lot of screen warping/tearing.

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12 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

Has anyone tried The Immortal (NES) on the RetroTink 5x?  I have to set vsync to "triple buffer" or it causes the RT to drop sync completely one second into the game.  However, even with triple buffer on, I get a lot of screen warping/tearing.

Sounds like exactly what happens with Tenshi no Uta on the RT5X. I don't have an NES or Famicom or an analog video cable for the Nt mini Noir, so I can't test it.

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The RetroTINK-5X provides some AMAZING image quality over composite video.  The notch filter is pretty good, just as good as the regular RetroTINK, but the 4-line comb filter works like magic in cleaning up composite video.  The PCE, which has very good quality over composite anyway, looks pretty amazing imo.

 

Here's an photo taken of my TV with my cellphone:

DSC_0640.JPG.5372b1b4588a8d7a029a6b49c0254733.thumb.JPG.599220e33707082e070a6166a227fda5.JPG

 

Composite will obviously never be as clear as S-video or Component or RGB, but a good notch/comb filter can really improve things.

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From everything I have seen and read, at some point, a RetroTINK-5x will likely replace my Framemeister, though I will probably keep my OSSC for a few specific things.

 

Looks like they are still taking orders, but the wallet says wait. Yes, parts shortage, might not be available for long time, blah blah, but the wallet speaks.

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On 10/22/2021 at 4:57 AM, newtmonkey said:

- No way to adjust the position of the image, adjust aspect ratio, tweak image, etc.

You can move the image up and down, but not left and right. Up and down is more important, but I noticed with some systems or FM profiles, the RT5X sometimes cuts off more of the left side of the image compared to the Framemeister.

 

For Youtube capture, I've used the RT5X a bit, mostly for 480i consoles, but I've stuck with the Framemeister out of habit. The RT5X had no brightness controls, which can be less than ideal, depending on the console, though it does seem to automatically optimize brightness in most cases for a properly attenuated system.

 

I have an OSSC, but I have little use for it these days, mostly because my capture device wants nothing to do with it, and I find the timing profiles too cumbersome to set up.

Edited by DJ Clae
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On 11/21/2021 at 9:15 AM, cybercylon said:

From everything I have seen and read, at some point, a RetroTINK-5x will likely replace my Framemeister, though I will probably keep my OSSC for a few specific things.

 

Looks like they are still taking orders, but the wallet says wait. Yes, parts shortage, might not be available for long time, blah blah, but the wallet speaks.

If it ain't broke, why fix it? That's my logic right now with with regards to my Framemeister. The day it dies, I'll certainly make the upgrade. But for now, it's difficult to justify it.

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3 hours ago, Austin said:

If it ain't broke, why fix it? That's my logic right now with with regards to my Framemeister. The day it dies, I'll certainly make the upgrade. But for now, it's difficult to justify it.

I just checked ebay and I found Framemeisters selling for more than the price of the RT5X. At that point, there is no reason not to sell it, buy the RTX5, and still make a little cash.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=framemeister&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

Edited by Steven Pendleton

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55 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I just checked ebay and I found Framemeisters selling for more than the price of the RT5X. At that point, there is no reason not to sell it, buy the RTX5, and still make a little cash.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=framemeister&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

How's the Tink5x doing wrt Genny, NeoGeo weird signals?

On the XRGB mini I solved by adding a Sync stripper (LM1881) on the cable (at the time unattenuated), and it solved sync issues (including SMS).

With my Tink5X I am having funny issues, aka MD2 + MegaED v1 all fine, same MD2 + MegaED X7 some issues ... had not had the time to try the (now attenuated) sync stripper to see if that is all that it takes, no issue whatsoever over SVideo.

 

Note that I like my Tink5X, and that without Sync Stripper my XRGB had issue latching on some NeoGeo games, some SMS games and some MD games .. a minority but still ... never understood what was going on, as soon as the LM1881 was in place all issues seem to subsume.

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Just now, phoenixdownita said:

How's the Tink5x doing wrt Genny, NeoGeo weird signals?

On the XRGB mini I solved by adding a Sync stripper (LM1881) on the cable (at the time unattenuated), and it solved sync issues (including SMS).

With my Tink5X I am having funny issues, aka MD2 + MegaED v1 all fine, same MD2 + MegaED X7 some issues ... had not had the time to try the (now attenuated) sync stripper to see if that is all that it takes.

 

Note that I like my Tink5X, and that without Sync Stripper my XRGB had issue latching on some NeoGeo games, some SMS games and some MD games .. a minority but still ... never understood what was going on, as soon as the LM1881 was in place all issues seem to subsume.

It's awesome with both and HD Retrovision. You'll need to use the Neo Geo preset sampling phase to use the Neo Geo AES to avoid some crazy distortion, though once you do, it works perfectly, and with triple buffer turned on, it never drops the signal even on the Neo Geo. Mike specifically recommends using HD Retrovision on the AES with the RT5X, but I think he also said that one of the MVS motherboards (I forget which one, but I believe it's the MV1C) is the best option for Neo Geo overall.

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Can someone answer a few questions for me?  I don't want to pester the dude who was nice enough to cancel my 2x order after i ordered the 5x.  It says they will be shipped by Dec 15th..  Do we get a notification when they are shipped?  Apparently after ordering we cannot change the ship address so I'd like to know a rough estimate of when to expect it since there's a lot of package theft in my building and i'm not of the pampered class that gets to work from home.   

 

Also I stupidly clicked on NO for the 5 dollar add on of a scart adapter.. not sure why I hit no, i didnt realize they were only 5 bux.  Is this something i can order for cheap on amazon? it looks like they sell compositive to scart adapters for like 9 bux, but want to make sure those are the same thing.

 

Also, firmware..  Do I have to update the firmware?  Is it ready to use out of the box?  Do you have to have a pc in order to update an object?  Can I use a chromebook? (ugh whenever i ask that question the answer is usually no you can't).

 

I'm so excited for this!  I especially can't wait to downscale the 720p mini systems to 240 on CRT just for fun.  There is a warning on the website though that downscaling could brick something, am I wrong about this?
 

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@NeonSpaceBeagle

Back in May I received an email with the USPS tracking info, when it shipped.  They provide a composite/S-Video to SCART adapter with an in/out switch on it, anything you find on Amazon should be fine.  I didn't get one because I'm just using the standard inputs for composite/S-Video.  While the 5X is great for component input, I just don't feel like running them through it (just the Wii anyway in my case).  I have SCART cables already for every console going back when I used a DVDO iScan (which died).  That said, my composite input is via an old Radioshack extension cord, which has passthrough jacks on it, so I technically could run a component source through those jacks as long as the consoles aren't on at once. ;)

 

Firmware should be up to date when they ship it, but they do put updates out frequently.  I believe the driver package and the retrotink tool are windows-based, because you have to use a virtual machine (VMWare/Parallels) on a Mac, so unless Chromebook has a similar app (unlikely) it won't work. 

Edited by Greg2600

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On 11/29/2021 at 2:40 AM, Steven Pendleton said:

I just checked ebay and I found Framemeisters selling for more than the price of the RT5X. At that point, there is no reason not to sell it, buy the RTX5, and still make a little cash.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=framemeister&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

That's cool and all, but that's not what I'm seeing on my end (eBay, USA). Even still, there are extra hassles involved. It's not worth it to me. The FM still looks really good for the things I do. It's not a big deal.

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No real need to get the SCART composite adaptor at all since it supports composite anyway through the Y input. All the adaptor does is give you a second composite input. If you do want a second composite input, I'm sure that there is something similar to/identical to the adaptor that you can buy with it, but I don't know where to find one.

 

It took about 20 days for my thing to get shipped in July-August, but I think Mike said somewhere online that it's just him and his wife doing everything. I'd be surprised if they didn't have hundreds of orders to fulfill for that July batch, so definitely well within a reasonable amount of time for a small business consisting of exactly 2 people. Once it shipped, it arrived at my house 2 days later. Not bad for international shipping. If it's supposed to ship by the 15th, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to have it in hand by the 20th, even considering the typical December shipping times in the USA.

 

Anyway, it's a nice thing. I wish it had a VGA input for Dreamcast, but otherwise it's excellent. I want to find a VGA to something-that-the-RT5X-accepts converter, but I haven't gotten around to it yet and the OSSC still works perfectly fine for Dreamcast VGA, so no real point.

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6 minutes ago, Austin said:

That's cool and all, but that's not what I'm seeing on my end (eBay, USA). Even still, there are extra hassles involved. It's not worth it to me. The FM still looks really good for the things I do. It's not a big deal.

Yeah, ebay is weird like that with what it displays sometimes for some reason. If you don't play systems/games that change resolutions frequently or ones that have weird things like losing the signal on the Neo Geo, no point in changing. I still have my Framemeister because it's the only thing I have with a JP21 input, which I need for my MSX2+'s RGB output since it came with a JP21 cable.

Edited by Steven Pendleton

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4 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

No real need to get the SCART composite adaptor at all since it supports composite anyway through the Y input. All the adaptor does is give you a second composite input. If you do want a second composite input, I'm sure that there is something similar to/identical to the adaptor that you can buy with it, but I don't know where to find one.

 

It took about 20 days for my thing to get shipped in July-August, but I think Mike said somewhere online that it's just him and his wife doing everything. I'd be surprised if they didn't have hundreds of orders to fulfill for that July batch, so definitely well within a reasonable amount of time for a small business consisting of exactly 2 people. Once it shipped, it arrived at my house 2 days later. Not bad for international shipping. If it's supposed to ship by the 15th, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to have it in hand by the 20th, even considering the typical December shipping times in the USA.

 

Anyway, it's a nice thing. I wish it had a VGA input for Dreamcast, but otherwise it's excellent. I want to find a VGA to something-that-the-RT5X-accepts converter, but I haven't gotten around to it yet and the OSSC still works perfectly fine for Dreamcast VGA, so no real point.

Thanks for the info!  Really excited.  I have a dreamcast VGA box thingie if you want it (and if that's what youre even talking about) that is doing nothing for me since I sold off my dreamcast collection a while back and probably won't jump back into that one again.

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Yay, there's that cropping update that was being worked on.

 

 

This is one of the things the OSSC does better than the RT5X. Hopefully this update, or at least the cropping feature, will fix the line that shows up on the right side of my screen in generic 4:3 while using 1080 (under) when using some of the newer firmware versions (but not the older ones for some reason), which I do not think I've posted a picture of yet, so here it is. Most of the time it's green, but sometimes it's purple and sometimes it's a mix of colors. Mike said this is probably a cropping issue, so hopefully it will be fixed somehow.

Pic_1018_820.thumb.jpg.8bc8278e54f49c6ceafb87f49a3e8162.jpg

 

On 11/30/2021 at 11:02 PM, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

Thanks for the info!  Really excited.  I have a dreamcast VGA box thingie if you want it (and if that's what youre even talking about) that is doing nothing for me since I sold off my dreamcast collection a while back and probably won't jump back into that one again.

I already have the best Dreamcast VGA box there is, but ask over in the VGA box thread, as maybe someone there might want it.

Edited by Steven Pendleton

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just got notification my 5x was shipped!  Do I really need to update the firmware on this when I receive it?  I looked at the firmware update list of things added and it just seemed like small little things that wouldn't affect me.  also i was reading if you try to downscale to a CRT you have to be extra careful or you run the risk of ruining your CRT?  Is it the CRT that could be damaged or the retrotink unit itself?    

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I recently bought the 5XPro.   I'm really happy with it and Mike Chi is currently working on a substantial update that will offer a nice OSD and more features like cropping on all sides. 

 

DSC00138.JPG

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32 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I recently bought the 5XPro.   I'm really happy with it and Mike Chi is currently working on a substantial update that will offer a nice OSD and more features like cropping on all sides. 

 

DSC00138.JPG

Is that the composite to SCART adapter that you can order?  I didn't spring for that because they only mentioned composite.  If I knew it also has s-video I would have included it in my order.

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2 minutes ago, zetastrike said:

Is that the composite to SCART adapter that you can order?  I didn't spring for that because they only mentioned composite.  If I knew it also has s-video I would have included it in my order.

I'm actually not sure if the S-Video plug works on that adapter.  I can try and let you know though. 

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I regret not ordering the scart.adapter and then when I realized what it was it was too late I guess. They have them on Amazon for about ten bux though, does anyone know if they are all just the same stuff?  

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