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newtmonkey

General upscaler thread

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Posted (edited)

Here are some example shots of the PSP Go playing PSX games through the RetroTINK-2X Pro, on a 4K OLED.  These are all taken off the screen of course with my cellphone camera, so the colors might seem a bit off.  Rest assured the picture is quite vibrant and accurate in real life.  (You can click on the thumbnails to get full sized images).

 

Note that the PSP Go image quality is pretty lackluster to begin with compared with that of a genuine PS1 or PS2 (it's quite dark and soft), and there is no 240p test suite that works with the PSP so I had to adjust all the picture settings by sight.  Still, these are 240p images scaled to 480p by the RetroTINK and then scaled to 4k by my TV, and look pretty damned nice imo.  All the images are with the RetroTINK scanline option enabled.  I cropped the black bars on the sides from the images just to save space.

 

DSC-0393.jpg

Here's R-Types zoomed in to show scanline detail.  The RetroTINK-2X Pro is very simple when it comes to scanlines; they are either on or off, and all the TINK does is blank every line it would have doubled.

I have the TV set to "dynamic contrast," and note how the TV actually varies the scanline thickness based on brightness, like with a CRT (note also how the scanlines "trail off" slightly on the ends of colors for a very smooth, almost CRT-like effect).  The effect is a bit exaggerated in this shot by my cellphone camera but it's actually apparent to the naked eye also.  It's pretty close to how a PVM/BVM looks in person, imo.

 

DSC-0394.jpg

Castlevania Chronicles.  Maybe not the best game for showing off 2D graphics, and this stage in particular is probably not the best for showing anything off due to its simple colors, and the overall darkness of the image made it difficult to photograph.  The important thing here is that the simple graphics show off how surprisingly sharp it looks regardless of the low resolution.

 

DSC-0395.jpg

Here's that same photo above zoomed in for detail.

 

DSC-0397.jpg

Rayman, one of the best looking 2D games of all time.  The scanlines look broken in the thumbnail, but the full image should look fine.  I don't like how this photo came out too much, the colors look saturated and the overall brightness too low, so I might take another shot with better lighting conditions.

Edited by newtmonkey

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48 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

Here are some example shots of the PSP Go playing PSX games through the RetroTINK-2X Pro, on a 4K OLED.  These are all taken off the screen of course with my cellphone camera, so the colors might seem a bit off.  Rest assured the picture is quite vibrant and accurate in real life.  (You can click on the thumbnails to get full sized images).

 

Note that the PSP Go image quality is pretty lackluster to begin with compared with that of a genuine PS1 or PS2 (it's quite dark and soft), and there is no 240p test suite that works with the PSP so I had to adjust all the picture settings by sight.  Still, these are 240p images scaled to 480p by the RetroTINK and then scaled to 4k by my TV, and look pretty damned nice imo.  All the images are with the RetroTINK scanline option enabled.  I cropped the black bars on the sides from the images just to save space.

 

DSC-0393.jpg

Here's R-Types zoomed in to show scanline detail.  The RetroTINK-2X Pro is very simple when it comes to scanlines; they are either on or off, and all the TINK does is blank every line it would have doubled.

I have the TV set to "dynamic contrast," and note how the TV actually varies the scanline thickness based on brightness, like with a CRT (note also how the scanlines "trail off" slightly on the ends of colors for a very smooth, almost CRT-like effect).  The effect is a bit exaggerated in this shot by my cellphone camera but it's actually apparent to the naked eye also.  It's pretty close to how a PVM/BVM looks in person, imo.

 

DSC-0394.jpg

Castlevania Chronicles.  Maybe not the best game for showing off 2D graphics, and this stage in particular is probably not the best for showing anything off due to its simple colors, and the overall darkness of the image made it difficult to photograph.  The important thing here is that the simple graphics show off how surprisingly sharp it looks regardless of the low resolution.

 

DSC-0395.jpg

Here's that same photo above zoomed in for detail.

 

DSC-0397.jpg

Rayman, one of the best looking 2D games of all time.  The scanlines look broken in the thumbnail, but the full image should look fine.  I don't like how this photo came out too much, the colors look saturated and the overall brightness too low, so I might take another shot with better lighting conditions.

That looks sharper than my PSP go through the OSSC using the generic settings. I wish I knew the optimal timings for PS1 on PSP go through the OSSC.

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@Steven Pendleton

Sadly the PSP Go gets no love these days, even though, when hacked, it's absolutely amazing.

 

If you use one of the higher res settings on the OSSC, you might want to give 480p a shot.  I previously was using the Framemeister for my PSP Go and noticed that 480p looked way sharper than 720p or 1080p (for the PSP only, other systems looked way sharper at 720p).  Dunno why!

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

@Steven Pendleton

Sadly the PSP Go gets no love these days, even though, when hacked, it's absolutely amazing.

 

If you use one of the higher res settings on the OSSC, you might want to give 480p a shot.  I previously was using the Framemeister for my PSP Go and noticed that 480p looked way sharper than 720p or 1080p (for the PSP only, other systems looked way sharper at 720p).  Dunno why!

Yeah, in that case I'll try it in 2x mode with the system's interlaced mode turned on. Apparently there is some sort of new PSP optimized mode in the newest OSSC firmware that I don't have yet. It's kind of annoying to update because every time you do it, it kills your settings for everything so you have to write them down or use this thing

 

http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/?i=1

 

to create a file and hold onto that file so you can import the settings again after you update and hope that the new firmware doesn't change anything related to your old settings because I guess that has happened in the past or something.

 

...and junkerhq isn't loading for me right now so I can't get the latest firmware. I'll try again later.

Edited by Steven Pendleton

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Looks like junkerhq is finally working for me. I'll try the PSP go later tonight or maybe tomorrow since I'm not really looking forward to writing down 9 sets of settings and then recreating them in the OSSC's menu right now. I really wish they'd somehow make the OSSC not delete all of your saved settings when you update the firmware.

 

It seems that several PSP-specific options were added in this newest firmware and someone has also provided perfect video timings on junkerhq, so I am looking forward to trying it after I get it configured properly. Not sure what will happen with PS1 games, but I'll find out. I mainly want this for PS1 games anyway, so I really hope it looks nice.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2020 at 5:01 AM, Steven Pendleton said:

I'm quite surprised this thread didn't exist already as far as I know. I thought about making this thread myself a few times but I never did. Nice to see that someone made it!

 

The OSSC is great and I love it, but it has a few issues. First, it's apparently not compatible with all displays, and not all displays are compatible with all of the OSSC's output options. The line quintuple option literally does not work at all on my monitor and some of the others give me a 16:9 aspect ratio, but the line triple mode is always perfect for me and it seems that it's also the best option for the PC Engine according to junkerhq. My monitor is not capable of changing aspect ratios of some images, so I basically just always use the 3x mode since it looks fine.

 

One thing that I've found with the OSSC is that there does not seem to be an actual 4:3 option, but there's no interpolation anyway so it would result in uneven pixels if it did exist and you used it. There is an option for 256x240 modes that lets you change between 4:3 and 8:7, but the 4:3 is a bit wide to actually be 4:3. From what I've seen, 320x240 will always give you square pixels like you see on the Genesis Mini/Mega Drive Mini. It's the wrong aspect ratio, but it still looks nice with my Mega Drive, Nomad, Saturn, and Neo Geo.

 

I've heard it has some issues with something to do with the SFC/SNES, but I don't know what those issues are, just that the Framemeister handles that system a bit better. I've also heard similar things about it with the PS2, as well, and although I've actually got a cable to connect my PS2 to the OSSC, I really don't have a reason to do so since I can use my PS3 instead so I never have aside from testing it once.

 

Finally, there is no RCA audio input, which is annoying since that means you need an RCA audio to 3.5mm converter. There is also no support for S-video, composite, or RF, so if your system doesn't have anything better than those, the OSSC is a waste of your money. It also doesn't accept JP21 if you have JP21 cables.

 

I should perhaps mention that it's a pain to set up and it's possible that you may not be able to set it up perfectly, as well. You can use the "generic" settings, but if you want the image to be really excellent, you have to configure it yourself, and for some systems, like the MSX, there are no timings over on junkerhq, so you need to know what every setting does and how they interact with each other or you won't get a good image. The sampling phase is particularly annoying to configure, and if you don't have it absolutely perfectly configured, you'll see pixels flickering and bleeding into other pixels. I have never been able to get my Mega Drive + Super 32X sampling phase configured properly, and it looks absolutely terrible in After Burner Complete when either the entire HUD, including the crosshair, or your F14 are super blurry and the other element is super sharp. I'm guessing this is related to how the systems are responsible for separate screen elements, but it's still disappointing that I've not been able to find a solution.

For what it's worth, 8:7 is PAR (pixel aspect ratio) and 4:3 is "screen aspect ratio" - not the same thing. But yeah, 320px res on the Genesis is definitely not square pixels (it's ~0.91 PAR). 

Edited by turboxray

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6 hours ago, turboxray said:

For what it's worth, 8:7 is PAR (pixel aspect ratio) and 4:3 is "screen aspect ratio" - not the same thing. But yeah, 320px res on the Genesis is definitely not square pixels (it's ~0.91 PAR). 

Yeah, I know. It's really too bad that the OSSC does that to 320 games. It doesn't look bad, but it's definitely wrong. I don't know if there would be a way for them to add interpolation and actual 4:3, but it would be nice. I could set the OSSC to one of the settings that gives me a 16:9 and then use my monitor's limited ability to change it to 4:3, which doesn't work for everything, but I'd rather just leave it slightly too wide.

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I wasn't 100% happy with the picture quality when using the RetroTINK as I had calibrated the TV using a Famicom over composite video, so I went in and recalibrated the TV using my Dreamcast over S-Video.  This was my best choice available, as I don't have component cables for any system other than the PSP Go (which does not have a port of the 240p test suite).  Anyway, S-Video is generally just a step behind component in most cases, and the DC in particular has very high quality S-Video output.

 

-----

 

Here are some new shots I took just yesterday.  These, again, are the PSP Go through the RetroTINK Pro over component cables, running at 240p scaled to 480p (RetroTINK) and then 4k (TV).  You can click on the thumbnails for the full sized images.

 

LOD1.jpg

Here's Legend of Dragoon.  I wanted to show off how nice low res pre-rendered backgrounds can look when properly scaled up.

I'm particularly happy with how the scanlines give the background a smoother look.  Notice how the scanlines "fade" into shadow on the roof, rather than simply ending on a hard edge, for an almost anti-aliased look rather than the "stairstep" pixels you'd get without a good scanline effect.

 

LOD2.jpg

Here's another scene from Legend of Dragoon.  I feel that the early polygonal systems benefit a lot from scanlines, which make the simple polygonal models look less like, well, simple polygonal models, and a little more like sprites.

 

JM.jpg

Here's a detail shot of a Jet Moto menu screen running in 480i.  Taking photos of 480i is difficult due to the deinterlacing method used by the RetroTINK.  It's a very "CRT-like" interlacing method, but the king of deinterlacing is still the Framemeister.  Notice how the image is "smudged" in the middle; this is the deinterlacing effect in action (you can literally see the scanlines switching position halfway across the screen).  This isn't noticeable when you are just looking at the screen of course.

 

Still, 480i content (especially still menus and images like this shot) look very sharp indeed regardless of the low resolution.

480i resolution does not benefit as much from the scanline effect, but the effect does help to "antialias" it a bit.

 

-----

 

Once I get a chance, I'd like to upload some Famicom and PC Engine composite video screenshots.  The RetroTINK really excels in cleaning up composite video sources (far better than even the mighty Framemeister in my opinion).

 

Edited by newtmonkey
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I forgot to update my OSSC and test new PSP settings. I'll probably do it later today now that I've remembered unless I forget again.

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Here are some off-screen shots of the Famicom running through the RetroTINK-2X Pro via composite video:

 

NES-NG.jpg

Ninja Gaiden II is one of the better looking NES games, colorful without being garish.  The scanline effect helps prevent the image from being too pixelated, while the composite video signal provides some grit to the background objects, which use detailed patterns rather than solid colors.

 

NES-SMB2.jpg

Super Mario Bros. 2.  Note how sharp and clean even composite video looks in this case.  The RetroTINK-2X Pro has a "retro" comb filter mode for composite sources, and it really cleans up the dot crawl you'd usually get with such sources (especially with the NES/Famicom).  Super Mario Bros. 2 uses very simple colors for its backgrounds, so there's honestly not much difference between composite and RGB (or FPGAs that output an equivalent quality signal) in this case imo.

 

NES-CONTRA.jpg

Contra is a great looking game, and the inherent issues with composite video imo add some grit and texture to the background objects here (specifically, the trees and grass).  Even so, it's a surprisingly clean and sharp image thanks to the comb filter used by the RetroTINK.

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Now for some PC Engine shots (also running through the RetroTINK-2X Pro via composite video).  The PC Engine is highly regarded for the excellent quality of its composite video output.

 

PCE-GENJIN.jpg

PC Genjin is a classic PCE title so I had to include it.  The simple colors provide a really sharp and clean image.

 

PCE-BS.jpg

Here's a still-shot from Beyond Shadowgate, which is somewhat of a technical tour-de-force for the system, running in its "high res" mode (336×224) with plenty of colors on-screen.

 

PCE-RNK.jpg

Experiencing the PCE port of Ryuko no Ken for the first time is akin to a caveman being handed a smartphone by a time traveler.  This is the port that should not be, but is.  It crushes both the SFC and Megadrive ports, and even uses a clever trick (switching between "low" and "high" resolution) to approximate the screen scaling of the original Neo Geo version.  It just looks fantastic on the RetroTINK-2X PRO, even (especially?) through composite video.  The image is slightly zoomed because the game has no pause button and is therefore difficult to photograph well!

Edited by newtmonkey

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Looks good overall, I think. The PC Engine does have excellent composite, though, and I think most people would agree it's absolutely some of the best composite video ever. PC Engine really is a tiny little box of awesomeness.

 

Your FC is stock? I've never used any model of the FC or NES (I only saw an NES in person for the first time about 2 months ago when I found a broken Hong Kong NES at BEEP in Akiba), so I'm not sure how good or bad it looks stock, but yours looks nice overall.

 

I do know that the Genesis/MD has absolutely terrible composite, though, so if you have one of those, maybe try it to see what it looks like! At least my MD looks terrible through composite when I tried it once on my CRT just to see how it looks. Switched back to RGB immediately. Supposedly the 32X has better composite, but I've never tested it because I'd much rather use its RGB output.

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@Steven Pendleton

Yeah, my Famicom is stock (new Famicom/AV Famicom).  I do have a Megadrive I could test, but I know for a fact the composite video is horrible as it looks like blurry smeared garbage on my Sony PVM haha.  The MD has got to be the system with the widest gap in quality between composite and RGB!

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1 minute ago, newtmonkey said:

@Steven Pendleton

Yeah, my Famicom is stock (new Famicom/AV Famicom).  I do have a Megadrive I could test, but I know for a fact the composite video is horrible as it looks like blurry smeared garbage on my Sony PVM haha.  The MD has got to be the system with the widest gap in quality between composite and RGB!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that nothing has a bigger difference in quality between composite and RGB than the MD. The crazy part is that it has better RGB than any other system from its time period in its stock configuration, including the Neo Geo! Saturn's RGB is basically flawless, though, and the Neo Geo's can easily be cleaned up to look better than the MD's. It's the only console mod that I've ever done, and it really needed it. I apparently didn't take any pictures of it after and only a few terrible ones before, though.

 

Never tested the PS1 since I don't have one anymore (got a PS2 first, then bought a PSone because my parents were divorced and the launch PS2 library in the USA was trash, but then sold the PSone later when my father got custody since he had the PS2), but the PS2's is very nice overall.

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@Steven Pendleton

The Saturn indeed has beautiful RGB (even composite is quite nice!), and the PSX is just as good.  I'd love to see before and after pictures of the Neo Geo, tho!

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18 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

@Steven Pendleton

The Saturn indeed has beautiful RGB (even composite is quite nice!), and the PSX is just as good.  I'd love to see before and after pictures of the Neo Geo, tho!

Well, here are the 3 before photos on the Neo Geo. I will have to go take some photos of what it looks like now, but basically imagine a clean emulator look and that's basically it.

 

 

Pic_0426_296.jpg

Pic_0426_297.jpg

Pic_0426_298.jpg

 

These are all on the OSSC, by the way, with no scanlines.

 

Actually, no, this is on my CRT.

Edited by Steven Pendleton
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I thought this might be fun here.  Here are three photos of the same scene from a game (Gunhed) running on my PC Engine connected via composite cables to the RetroTINK-2X PRO, showing the three major modes offered by the device.

 

I took the photos with cellphone held just a few inches from the screen, so it's VERY zoomed in.  Click on the thumbnails for full-sized images to really see the difference!

 

1DIRECT.jpg

First is "pass-through" mode, where the RetroTINK just passes the 240p signal to the TV without doing anything, leaving the TV to upscale it to native res (4K in this case).  Although my TV supports 240p (some TVs will not display anything), it is clearly not doing it right and is very likely interpreting it as 480i, de-interlacing it, and then scaling it up.  It results in a smeary and inaccurate image (that looks even worse in motion).

 

2RT.jpg

Here is the same game now with the RT set to line double to 480p.  It's clearly much sharper and more accurate to the original signal being output.  It's like putting on your glasses (if you wear glasses...)!

 

3RE-SL.jpg

As a bonus, here's that same scene with the scanline filter enabled.

Edited by newtmonkey

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I've needed some time to post to this thread. With all of the options out there, I'd like to see it continue. If one has been at this for awhile, this topic isn't so confusing. For a new person, it is helpful to know as much as possible to see if a cheap solution is good enough, or if a more costly one is better; I know many of us fall into the latter category, and I don't have much experience with the more inexpensive solutions.

 

My two main work horses are the XRGB Mini (Framemeister) and the OSSC. This a quick summery of my pluses and minuses:

 

Framemeister:

 

- Pluses:

 

- With the profiles that are out there, it is relatively easy to get up and running these days

- Compatible with more capture devices including the Elgato HD 60s

- has composite and s-video connections

- also has and HDMI pass through option (480p can get upscaled to 1080p)

- I don't hear to much about TV compatibility issues (though honestly, I haven't looked)

- HDMI pass through can sometimes fix output from an OSSC that normally would not work with a certain TV or capture device

- audio input is very straight forward

 

- Cons:

 

- Expensive and out of production. Likely not an alternative for most unless you have one already

- Crushes colors and grays on all inputs except the HDMI pass through (color bar test on 240p test suite).

- Definitely produces a picture with more noise especially with the RGB input (note: cables are usually from Retro access or retro gaming cables... no cheap stuff).

- very slow with 240p to 480i transitions

- adds lag in top of what the display has already (may not matter as much if one has a good display with low latency and one plays games that don't require a quick response)

- signal from remote can be slow and sometimes unresponsive

 

OSSC:

 

Pluses:

 

- Much more affordable and has been more readily available from videogameperfection.com in more recent times

- When it works well with your display, video from RGB outputting sources blows the Framemeister out of the water when it comes to analog noise and picture clarity

- Does not crush colors and greys like the Framemeister does.

- May be a better open when using component video sources than the Framemeister (what I always read is the D-term input and conversion of video on Framemesiter sucks, but I cannot confirm).

- no issues with the remote

- As a line doubler, it does not add much if any lag (I trust Bob from retroRGB on this).

 

Cons:

 

- Can be finicky with displays and capture devices. Some will not work or may not work with more than line double mode. There are lists out there, but it can still be a crap shoot

- Can require more fiddling with settings and timing to get it to work right. This can be display dependent. Settings don't really need to be mess around with on my 4K gaming monitor, but forget about my 1080p display.

- audio input will likely require an adapter if one uses anything other than the SCART input

- no S-video or composite video input (I guess the new pro model will have these, but that has been delayed).

- although there is now a basic on screen display, the  Framemeister wins in this category

 

How I use them:

 

For the TG16 plus SSDS3, 100% OSSC. I have revision B of this device, and with the Framemeister, there is a fair amount of noise added with the RGB input (I am not referring to jail bars). These appear as faint diagonal lines across the screen. There have been plenty of other reports about this. The colors are crushed, and frankly, it (the picture) does not look good. If I use the composite input, those lines go away, but then there is noise associated with the fact that one is using composite. I have also tried the HD retrovision cables with the d-term input. While that input is relatively noise free, the colors are really crushed. With the OSSC plus high quality SCART, I get little noise, and it looks great on my 4k display.

 

I also tend to use the OSSC with the Genesis (SCART or HD retrovision). While the noise issues are not as apparent, I still get better results with the Framemeister.

 

With my PS One, I can go either way.

 

For the SNES, I tend to use the Framemeister as it seems to be somewhat more reliable with picture stability, but I need to research this some more (not a high priority).  My Game Cube has an HDMI mod, and I tend to use the HDMI passthrough to scale the image up further. Some games like Mario Kart Double Dash and F-Zero GX look really good with this setup. For my N64, the framemeister is my only choice as my N64 is not modded. I use the s-video input with a Retro Access cable. The cheap s-video cable I had introduced a lot of noise, and the Retro access cable gives a much better picture. Still, the picture still is not that great. I have wondered if the Retrotink Pro with it's filter would give a better result, but I don't play the N64 often enough to justify what is likely a one trick pony device for me.

 

As for capture, I only have a laptop and an Elgato HD60, so Framemeister it is. For example, I can't get anything more than line double mode to work with the OSSC with the TG16. I haven't tried everything I have owned.

 

That said, on a hunch, I tried hooking up the OSSC to the Framemeister's HDMI input, and it did resolve issues with one display, and I can go up to 4x line double with the Elgato by using this daisy chain. Someone posted once that they did something similar with the Xbox One's HDMI pass through. With my TG16+ SSDS3, I was able to get 5X line double to work through my Elgato. I speculate that maybe the Framemeister and Xbox One HDMI passthroughs might be doing something to fix the signal coming out of the OSSC to make more options available that might not work with the OSSC alone. The Framemeister's HDMI's passthrough does not crush the colors like the other inputs do (more speculation... likely the ADC chip in the Framemeister is causing all of this bad color crushing).

 

I do hesitate to suggest as a solution to people though. I may just be lucky with my displays, etc where this pass through works, and I can't guarantee it will work with someone else's setups. In talking to people online, it seems like some of the issues may be set up dependent. I also wish I knew more about what the HDMI input does on the Framemeister. Does it add lag or cause other problems I don't know about. I haven't seen much online that reports anything definitive, but maybe I haven't found it. It is also possible that there might be cheaper HDMI passthrough solution that might work for someone that is struggling with the OSSC; I only used the Framemeister because I already had one.

 

Whew... that is probably one of my longest posts here. 

Edited by cybercylon
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Very good information there, @cybercylon! Thanks for posting that.

 

I agree with everything you posted about the FM based on my experience with it, and appreciate your thoughts on the OSSC which I am tempted to buy just to compare.

 

From what I understand about the FM HDMI passthrough, there is an option in the menu to disable processing for this (i.e. pure passthrough).  That suggests to me that it passes HDMI through its frame buffer by default, so I think it would probably add some lag.  The FM is interesting in that it's frame buffer provides both two of its greatest assets (wide compatibility and extensive image options) but one of its greatest issues (added lag).

 

12 hours ago, cybercylon said:

what I always read is the D-term input and conversion of video on Framemesiter sucks, but I cannot confirm

This is true in my experience.  I have tried connecting my PS2 via both RGB and component>D-term, and RGB is much cleaner.  This is also true for the PSP Go, which ends up looking pretty bad with colors that are either overly saturated or bland and has an overall blurry image quality using the FM; it looks MUCH better running through the RetroTINK.

 

12 hours ago, cybercylon said:

I have wondered if the Retrotink Pro with it's filter would give a better result, but I don't play the N64 often enough to justify what is likely a one trick pony device for me.

If you are referring to the blur filter here, I personally don't like it.  I've read some people like it because it helps to hide aliasing artifacts and whatnot, but even with the... let's say "unique"... look of the image put out by the N64 I feel the blur filter just makes it look like you're running it through a generic $20 HDMI "upscaler" you'd find on Amazon.  Having said that, I slightly prefer the softer 480p image of the RetroTINK (blur filter off) versus the razor sharp 720p/1080p image of the FM for the N64 in particular.  It's probably not worth getting a TINK just for the N64, but if you have any composite video only consoles you might want to consider it as the comb filter in the TINK really does wonders with composite video compared with the FM (which has no comb filter at all).

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Yeah, great comparative write up, I agree.

 

The other thing that's nice about the Framemeister is its zoom function. Fantastic when using the Game Boy Player or Super Game Boy. PSP as well. I've even used it on 3DO DOOM, putting the game in its smallest window, then blowing it up with the FM. The game's actually playable then and doesn't look much worse than the GBA version at that point. :lolblue:

 

I personally had to ditch the OSSC, which is a shame because like it was mentioned, its picture can be amazing. The colors really pop. I just couldn't get it to play nice with my capture setup. Line3X, 4X and 5X were rarely compatible with most systems I have, so I kept using the Framemeister as my primary work horse. Looking forward to seeing how the OSSC Pro compares when it hits.

 

Regarding the Mini's input lag, it's mostly a non-issue unless you are a speedrunner. Isn't it something like a frame and a half? Few will notice it unless they are top-tier players that have to do everything frame-perfect. I never have issues and I play a lot of input-sensitive games, like precision platformers and intense shoot 'em ups. I have always wondered though if doing 1080p upscaling adds to that. 720p to me feels more responsive, but it could just be all in my head.

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@Austin

You can actually check the FM's internal lag in the detailed info section of the menu, and I noticed that dropping PSP Go (playing PSX games) and PC Engine from 720p to 480p actually reduced the lag further according to what was shown in this menu.

 

You raise a good point about the ZOOM function.  Many TVs now do have a decent ZOOM function, but the FM is easily the best solution for playing PSP games fullscreen on a TV.

 

I agree that the lag added by the FM is basically imperceptible unless you are a speedrunner, etc. (and for those who are unfamiliar with upscalers, the lag added by the FM will almost certainly be less than the lag added by your TV if it is left to itself to upscale the image).  The only issue I ran into personally (and I am very perceptible to lag) was using the PSP Go through the FM to play PSX games with a Dual Shock 3 connected over BT.  The combined lag of everything together pushed it JUST above the threshold where I began to feel it.  Having said that, as I mentioned above, dropping the FM to 480p reduced the lag just enough where the total lag dropped back down below my personal threshold.

Edited by newtmonkey

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Interesting point about the FM zoom feature and the Game Boy Player. I'll have to give that a try just to see how well it looks.

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Thanks for mentioning it!  I watched some videos but neglected to post them here.

 

Here's a good overview of what the RetroTINK-2X Pro Multiformat does/offers:

 

In short, it offers 480p passthrough (other RT products do not support 480p at all) but doesn't provide as nice image quality as the other TR products for 240p games.

 

It seems like it is meant specifically for systems that mostly do 480i/480p with some occasional 240p games (i.e. PS2, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox, DC).  Based on the footage, I don't think it dethrones the Framemeister as the king of 480i deinterlacing, but it might be a superior choice for consoles that are primarily 480p (the FM is notorious for its poor handling of 480p) and a nice (reasonable) option if all you want to do is hook your PS2 up to your flatscreen TV.

Edited by newtmonkey

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