New Incognito install not working

[+skr]

On 8/2/2020 at 3:41 PM, DrVenkman said:

 

@StickJock already said that if he removes the Incognito and reinstalls the stock OS and RAM boards, the machine will boot but no luck with the Incognito, even with the wires to the CPU board disconnected per @flashjazzcat’s suggestion. 

 

So if there are no other issues with wiring or board modifications (and there doesn’t seem to be), the only other thing I could think of was re-flashing the Incognito, but he has no way to do that, it sounds like. 

 

Time to contact Lotharek, I think.

Maybe I´m lost in translation (no native english speaker me is ), but that´s what I meant:

Machine Boots. So if he has an AtariMax Cartridge (not the programmer, just the cartridge), he can create an ATR containing the Incognito ROM with MaxFlashStudio. Open the AtariMax Cart, replace the chip with the one from the Incognito and flash it, using the ATR with a SIO device. Only thing I don´t know is, if he has an AtariMax Cart and a SIO-Device.

[StickJock]

I've got a working 320XE (upgraded it in the 80s), 850 interface, 1050s, as well as an SIO2PC-USB, SIO2SD & SD-Max, but no modern carts (just original Atari basic & Assembler/Editor carts).

 

The 800 works if I revert it back to using the original ROM & RAM cards. 

 

I'm really hoping that someone local will contact me and test out the Incognito card on their system so that we can definitively tell if the card is working or not.

 

[StickJock]

On 8/3/2020 at 4:12 PM, skr said:

Maybe I´m lost in translation (no native english speaker me is ), but that´s what I meant:

Machine Boots. So if he has an AtariMax Cartridge (not the programmer, just the cartridge), he can create an ATR containing the Incognito ROM with MaxFlashStudio. Open the AtariMax Cart, replace the chip with the one from the Incognito and flash it, using the ATR with a SIO device. Only thing I don´t know is, if he has an AtariMax Cart and a SIO-Device.

This seems like an interesting idea.  I may be able to borrow an AtariMax setup.  Does it matter which AtariMax cartridge it is?  I see that there is a 1Mbit and an 8Mbit version.  The Incognito page says that it has a 64KB Flash, which would be 512Kbit, which doesn't match either of those.  I guess that the package size & programming interface is the same for all of these?  You said that you have done this for the Ultimate ROM, which I am assuming is similar to the Incognito one.

 

[bandit]

It Has to be the 8mbit cartridge. older as the newest do not have sockets.

[+skr]

4 hours ago, StickJock said:

This seems like an interesting idea.  I may be able to borrow an AtariMax setup.  Does it matter which AtariMax cartridge it is?  I see that there is a 1Mbit and an 8Mbit version.  The Incognito page says that it has a 64KB Flash, which would be 512Kbit, which doesn't match either of those.  I guess that the package size & programming interface is the same for all of these?  You said that you have done this for the Ultimate ROM, which I am assuming is similar to the Incognito one.

 

2*512kb=1MBit. Just create a file that contains the data twice to get the right size. I´ve written the procedure down somewhere a few years ago, will search for it tomorrow. Or maybe @Yellowman remembers it, as he gave me the final hint back then.

[StickJock]

35 minutes ago, skr said:

2*512kb=1MBit. Just create a file that contains the data twice to get the right size. I´ve written the procedure down somewhere a few years ago, will search for it tomorrow. Or maybe @Yellowman remembers it, as he gave me the final hint back then.

According to bandit, I have to use the older 8Mbit cartridge.  Are the cartridges identical except for the EEPROM installed in them?  So I don't need to make a 16x image?

 

 

[Wrathchild]

The 128KByte/1Mbit CART has one plcc socket for the am29f010 chip and the 1MByte/8Mbit cart has 2 sockets, each for the 512KByte/4Mbit am29f040 chips.

 

So yes, use the larger cart and make a single large binary to program it with by repeating the image in a single file.

[StickJock]

So here's an update on my Incognito woes.

 

To recap, I did the install, but when I powered it on I just got a quick red flash and then a black screen.  I double, triple & quadruple checked my install.  Everything beeped out correctly, and I couldn't find any shorts under magnification.

 

I ended up sending it off back to Lotharek for diagnosis.  So he takes a handy video of the entire process, starting with opening the box.  I get a link to the video, and watch as he opens the box.  He reads over my RMA form, then plugs the Incognito into a waiting system.  He powers it up, and there is the quick red flash followed by the black screen.  Ah-Ha, I think to myself, it really was defective!  The video continues, while Lotharek sits there watching the blank screen.  Then, after about 7 seconds, the Incognito screen pops up!

 

Doh!  I just didn't wait long enough.  So boy do I feel dumb.  I probably powered it back off after 3 or so seconds, not wanting to risk anything burning out in case I screwed up the install.

 

Anyway, I just got it back last night..  It took a while to get it back because I added a Side3 to my order, so I had to wait for those to begin shipping (BTW:  my Side3 got here!).  I plugged it back into my 800, turned it on, and the Incognito screen popped up instantly - just like in the videos that I have watched.  I guess that the very first time it powers up, it needs to do some sort of initialization that takes ~7 seconds.  Anyway, I am happy that it works, but feel really dumb that I shipped it back to him when there wasn't anything wrong with it.

 

Now I know that it is working, I can finish the install (file the plastic cage & add the ATR swap button).

 

[candle]

the reason incognito might be slow to start is that it monitors 5V rail, and won't let it start till certain conditions are met

since 800 uses AC power brick instead of DC power supply, all the voltage regulation is done on 800 power supply board - the one with SIO sockets and all

If you can, check voltages its generating with some sort of oscilloscope for stability, or at least DMM with bargraph or analog meter for any fluctuations - if they are present, just replace electrolitic capacitors - after all, they are 40 years old

[flashjazzcat]

There's something else which may be pertinent when the older PBI firmware is present. Since the Incognito's IDE host adapter doesn't have a 'card detect' sensor, the firmware attempts to reset the drive regardless of whether there is any media present or not. The timeout loops in the older versions of the firmware were quite long (five seconds or so), so if you happened to have the 'SIDE Hardware' enabled and there was no card in the slot, you might encounter some long delays when the OS starts.

 

More recent versions of the firmware have much shorter timeout loops. I'm not saying that was definitely the issue in this case, but it could be.

 

Another thing I have noticed is that units as delivered appear to have valid checksums left in the NVRAM, so the desired behaviour of a newly installed device powering up directly to the setup menu until the user sets it up and saves the configuration has been lost. A tested unit should probably have the battery popped and reinserted before dispatch.

Edited October 9, 2020 by flashjazzcat