baktra Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 I have been considering porting the Train game to Atari 5200 for some time. However, I have two concerns. Concern #1 The 32 KB cartridge. I believe I will have to make some concessions, most likely remove the music, perhaps reducing the number of levels. Concern #2 This is what worries me the most. Train requires precise controls (keyboard and digital joystick are the best), so for me, the only viable option seems to be the keypad. I cannot imagine playing the game with the standard controller (even after retrofit and reconditioning). I know that there are at least some games for 5200 using keypad as primary control. I know about Frogger, which happens to require precise controls too. So the question is simple... Would the keypad, given your experience with keypad-controlled games for 5200, be a viable controller for the Train game? What would be the preferred scheme T or diamond? 2 or 2 456 4 6 8 I am asking this, because I want to make sure the port will be playable (thus worth the effort). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ryan Witmer Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, baktra said: 2 or 2 456 4 6 8 Why not both at the same time? Just make the 5 and 8 keys do the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 If you can play Pac-Man (you can) I am sure you could play your game with it. The difficulty of using the 5200 controller with certain games like Pac-Man is over hyped in my opinion. If someone doesn't like the controller they can always use a modern convertor with a digital joystick anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 I guess nothing prevents me from creating a prototype with both control styles and find some volunteers with a flash cartridge to test it. I hope for experience better than Curse of the Lost Miner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, baktra said: I guess nothing prevents me from creating a prototype with both control styles and find some volunteers with a flash cartridge to test it. I hope for experience better than Curse of the Lost Miner. Many people have digital 5200 controllers now too if that makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shawn said: Many people have digital 5200 controllers now too if that makes any difference. It does, as I would like to have assurances the port will be playable by at least some 5200 owners. Anyway, anyone can try the game in its version for 8-bit Atari computers. I've got mostly positive feedback so far. I just want to add that if the port is created, it will be a digital release only. Edited August 17, 2020 by baktra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 I've started working on the port. So far, it seems the only victim will be the in-game music (to fit in 32 KB). Let us see how I will deal with the controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aking Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, baktra said: I've started working on the port. So far, it seems the only victim will be the in-game music (to fit in 32 KB). Let us see how I will deal with the controls. If you're aiming at a digital-only release , why limit yourself to a 32k ROM ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 20 hours ago, Aking said: If you're aiming at a digital-only release , why limit yourself to a 32k ROM ? I've got some feedback on the game, and the in-game music was identified as one of the expendable items. Other tunes will be kept. And then the game fits in 32 KB, so one can hapilly avoid bankswitching headaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danjovic Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 On 8/16/2020 at 1:08 PM, baktra said: Would the keypad, given your experience with keypad-controlled games for 5200, be a viable controller for the Train game? What would be the preferred scheme T or diamond? 2 or 2 456 4 6 8 I suggest you to make it playable with either keypad or digital joystick. Question: Are the diagonals necessary? Because Pokey can only detect one key at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Danjovic said: I suggest you to make it playable with either keypad or digital joystick. Question: Are the diagonals necessary? Because Pokey can only detect one key at a time. The game doesn't use diagonals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 Making some progress. I've decided to write the cartridge as a diagnostic one, so there will be no rainbow screen. Makes sense as the game doesn't come from Atari. After some effort (initializing the hardware manually), the game makes it to the main menu. Source code of the ATOS 5200 shipped with the Altirra emulator was of a great help. Next step will be the controls. After that, I will release a prototype. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aking Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Nice. Looking forward to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) This is prototype 001. First two levels are playable. Controls: JS+FIRE. No keypad support, No sound and music. Pressing keypad results in crash. Works with emu. Does it too with real machine? Next steps: Keypad support. Download:https://drive.google.com/file/d/11hSTiU8P1nWNOWHHpgR2tRDW1nyx-B1g/view?usp=drivesdk Edited December 16, 2020 by baktra link 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 Another piece of good news. 50 levels will fit in the cartridge. If everything goes well, there will be all three releases of the game available for 5200. So the only real sacrifices are the in-game music and going from stereo to mono. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 How big is the PC and Atari 8-bit conversions? Here's a link to a 64K ROM scheme used by the M.U.L.E. conversion to the 5200... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 The PC original of Vlak has 32 KB. It had more detailed graphics, no music and a minimalist hand-coded assembler engine. Train for 8-bit Atari is around 40 KB. Engine written in CC65, stereo music, smaller graphics. The mule cartridge is using bank-switching, which is perfectly legitimate, but requires custom hardware and possibly a lot of work on the code to support the bank switching. My conversion of Train for 5200 is for no $, so sticking to 32 KB cart with few compromises is the best solution for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aking Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 works fine on real hardware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Aking said: works fine on real hardware No good deed goes unpunished. Firstly, thank you very much for testing. Secondly, there is prototype 002. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AyyHU0ySvwuRa_x3yDr5BuWDjN1HMOZ4/view?usp=drivesdk It has keypad controls using the scheme described few posts above. The keypad works also in the menu and the scene selection. Additionally, the Start key starts the game from menu, and the Reset key returns to the main menu when in-game. Next steps: Audio and other necessary refinements. The game is taking shape quickly. Perhaps just one more prototype before a release. Also preparing a small digital booklet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aking Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Working fine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 I found a bug in keypad processing. It can happen that when the first train move is done by keypad then the locomotive goes in 'no direction' and weird things happen. The code will need certain refinements. Good news is that msx and sfx are working. I would have few complaints to the author of the rmt player routine about coding style and using symbolic names, but he died few years agp, so I am on my own on a mission to publish an improved version. Perhaps someone already did that. So, when I fix the keypad problem, there will be final proto 003 for testing with sfx and msx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 The proto 003 is here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mDqsuPIGiu15E0AiB-bwRZ8R4PcF2Cfl/view?usp=drivesdk The keypad works much better - responsive as the stick. And there are sounds and music. So I will keep 003 in the wild for a while to get more testers. In the meantime, I will update the build system to compile all three trains from one source. C preprocessor and conditional assembly can do wonders. I want the three games to have different music and title screen color schemes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aking Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Not around my 5200 these next days.sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 The build system happens to work perfectly, so now I can generate all three carts with one click. Still refining the subtle differences between the three games, but not much is left to be done. So the train 'trilogy' for 5200 will be available soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 25, 2020 Author Share Posted December 25, 2020 My little contribution to the CC65 compiler system was accepted. Now the 5200 developers can benefit from _atari5200os.h header file. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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