Quick Review of Lotharek HQ Video Cable

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, Atari Nut said:

I meant "How about an Atari DIN to composite video cable?"

We knew what you meant.  There can be no danger of chroma/luma crosstalk in a composite cable, at least, since the two signals already share the same carrier, but external interference sources might still cause problems with a poorly shielded cable, I guess. Composite often looks so ropey it's hard to tell, though, and jailbars tend to be harder to discern there (in my experience at least).

[ACML]

I received my Hercules-Workshop cable today and it appears to have a very nice build quality.  I tried it on one of my 1200XLs with a ClearPic2002 video mod on my 2009 46" Samsung using the Hercules-Workshop and 8-bit Classics s-video cables.  I purchased the Hercules-Workshop cable because of the reviews and the technical explanation that a double shielded Y/C would eliminate the jail bars.  So, for me, with my setup, both cables produce the exact same picture.  Both have jail bars and I really can not tell any difference in picture.  This is my result and it could be due to other factors other than the cables themselves.  For me, no change.   

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, ACML said:

I received my Hercules-Workshop cable today and it appears to have a very nice build quality.  I tried it on one of my 1200XLs with a ClearPic2002 video mod on my 2009 46" Samsung using the Hercules-Workshop and 8-bit Classics s-video cables.  I purchased the Hercules-Workshop cable because of the reviews and the technical explanation that a double shielded Y/C would eliminate the jail bars.  So, for me, with my setup, both cables produce the exact same picture.  Both have jail bars and I really can not tell any difference in picture.  This is my result and it could be due to other factors other than the cables themselves.  For me, no change.   

It's been quite sometime since I did a ClearPic2002 on my 1200XL, but if I recall correctly there is a capacitor that needs to be removed if you want good quality S-Video output. If left in, there will be jail bars. To know if it's still present... you will see a full color composite output, and when removed I believe composite will be B&W only.

 

Edit: Seeing jail bars with the Hercules cable is always going to be attributable to the video driver circuit of the Atari, and is not the fault of the cable.

 

Edit2: Opps I was thinking of an 800XL where removal of C56 will cure the computer of creating the jail bars.

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

Shielding prevents noise and cross talk, there are multiple path to inject noise into your video...

no shielding on some mobo's or bad, missing, decoupling, filter caps, crappy improperly shielded cables, or mismatched impedance cables.

shielding is not the same thing as grounding either, shielding surrounds as much of a conductor, transmission line, or circuitry as possible.

The outermost shielding of any cable should not complete a ground circuit but only be connected to one of the connected unit shield or ground.. this prevents ground loop hums etc.

 

The Atari utilizes a method of video that is highly sensitive to these issues and part of that is due to it's chips color clocking and phase. Pointing out some other device that utilizes a totally different graphics and video generation is an Orange to Celery comparison.

 

The hercules cable is superior and rejects external influences and internal cross talk. You can see the difference on most Atari/Monitor/televisions combinations and can see the difference with an oscilloscope. Some cables are so bad you can see a passing vehicles' ignition pops and noises in your video as well as radio station/television transmitter tower interferece from relatively nearby broadcasting equipment and towers. This also can be seen by certain peripherals being nearby generating patterns and noise also.

 

Myteks boards due too their internal plains, isolates and shields things naturally on some level by design, putting it in a nice metal or shielded box further eliminates all that was mentioned, using a quality cable and monitor is the icing on the cake which is why it's looks so damn clean.

 

Consider my quick rant though not perfect a respectable guide... any break down in the chain of separation and shielding allows for the gremlins to cross talk, reflect, pick up, or radiate causing jail bars, dot crawl, and other issues.

Edited January 21, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[wildstar87]

This is just a side note on this topic.  I made one of these myself, since I immediately noticed that it was an Xbox 360 cable.  I bought one that had connections for component video, composite, and audio. Which I used for Chroma, Luma, Composite, S-Video, and Audio. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-HD-TV-Component-Composite-Audio-Video-AV-Cable-Cord-for-Microsoft-Xbox-360/121382519966?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

I ran into this exact same issue, as you already know there is no shielding in any of the cables.  The cable looks the bomb, since I got really nice Din and Mini-din plugs, unfortunately when compared to my original Chroma/Luma/Composite/Audio cable that I got back in the late 80s (for some reason the only thing I kept from my original Atari gear), it was horrible. I thought maybe the cable I got was just cheaply made, or I screwed up the ground or something.  I'm almost tempted to cut into one of my actual Xbox 360 cables that came with it, to see if it is shielded, but haven't done it. 
 

I also noticed that the same cable on Amazon, says that it's fully shielded, while the ebay one does not mention anything.  Methinks probably the Amazon one is the same as these, but that is supposition on my part.

 

I was thinking of getting a snap-on ferrite core to see if it would clean it up.  Do you think that would have any effect at all?

Edited March 29, 2021 by wildstar87

[+mytek]

9 minutes ago, wildstar87 said:

I was thinking of getting a snap-on ferrite core to see if it would clean it up.  Do you think that would have any effect at all?

Unfortunately it won't. The problem is usually attributable to the chroma and luma signals mixing due to no individual shielding to stop it.

[ratwell]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:25 PM, mytek said:

So as a manufacturer and seller, I would think that instead of trying to force a bad video cable to work by suggesting that the audio cables be plugged in, it would be preferable to build the cable the way it should be by best practices. And just so we are all clear on what that is... this would be a cable that uses individually shielded coaxial signal wires, preferably with an impedance of 75 ohms.

With 250kg of cables to sell, I think it might be best to keep selling this Xbox designed cable into that market, as is.

 

I’m more concerned that this cable is still being advertised as being fully shielded 7 months after this issue was raised and confirmed.

 

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=198
 

Highest possible quality cable (1,6 m long)  fully shielded,  made for :

• ATARI 8BIT
• Commodore 64
• probably many more compatible

@lotharek please update your product page or confirm that the cable has been replaced with an updated shielded version...thank you.

 

 

[ratwell]

I ordered the double-shielded S-Video monitor cable from Hercules Workshop (thank you Rob) to compare to the Lotharek multi-output monitor cable...

 

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&item=80304

 

System: 800XL with UAV Rev.D (and Sophia VGATE=on) with RetroTink 2x Mini and El Gato CamLink.

 

S-Video comparison:

 

 

Differences are more apparent on a large LCD as the thread was discussing earlier.

 

I then split the Luma (Y) signal from the S-Video and fed it into the composite input of the RetroTink 2x Mini:

 

A B&W image is what I was expecting to see just as if I had hooked up a stock 800XL without the chroma pin connected.

 

I think this conclusively shows how the unshielded Chroma (C) wire inside the Lotharek cable is polluting the unshielded Luma (Y) wire. 

 

[Sugarland]

Thank you @ratwell.  I want a refund or store credit.

[mikesk8]

As reported earlier, on my A800 (non XL) the video with Lotharek cable is very good. However, my 130XE has huge zig-zag pattern (using the same Lotharek cable). I guess the circuits of 130XE are not as well designed as 800. Anyway, has anybody manage to get rid of zig-zags using Hercules cables?  

[Luke210]

4 minutes ago, mikesk8 said:

Anyway, has anybody manage to get rid of zig-zags using Hercules cables?  

Yes, i'm using it with my 130xe.

[mikesk8]

1 minute ago, Luke210 said:

Yes, i'm using it with my 130xe.

and zigzag with Hercules are really gone? wow

[Luke210]

3 minutes ago, mikesk8 said:

and zigzag with Hercules are really gone? wow

It's just good cable... lotharek's cable isn't.

[mikesk8]

24 minutes ago, Luke210 said:

It's just good cable... lotharek's cable isn't.

thanks! I will get one to try  and will report back.

[mikesk8]

I am happy to say that my double shielded Hercules Workshop cables removed zig zag pattern from my stock 130XE.

I will try to do some pics. The picture quality is really nice taking into consideration its a stock 130XE. 

 

ps. I bought Lotharek cable as thought its top quality I can get for Atari, but it turned out its not even shielded even though its says it is. Its a pity as Lotharek products are top. The description should be changed to be fully honest. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by mikesk8

[Beeblebrox]

5 hours ago, mikesk8 said:

I am happy to say that my double shielded Hercules Workshop cables removed zig zag pattern from my stock 130XE.

I will try to do some pics. The picture quality is really nice taking into consideration its a stock 130XE. 

 

ps. I bought Lotharek cable as thought its top quality I can get for Atari, but it turned out its not even shielded even though its says it is. Its a pity as Lotharek products are top. The description should be changed to be fully honest. 

Great. I am still waiting to hear from Hercules workshop. Wasn't sure if they were on holiday as it's been a week since I enquired. I am in the UK so not gonna be cheap re postage and import duties.