Best combo of ping and picture with VGA, HDMI, YPbPr 3 RCA, and SCART

[tripletopper]

I got an interesting combination of video game systems and TV monitors and capture cards and I'm trying to see how they all work with each other.

 

Anything before the Dreamcast is pretty simple take it downstairs run it on a 480i Sony Wega CRT with the highest level connection that can go through it, which is component ycbcr 3 RCA.

 

Anything from the Xbox 360 and afterwards is also pretty simple, use the HDMI connector.  Split it into two. Take one end to the CRT VGA and play through there while the other end goes to my capture card on my Macintosh.

 

It's the Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox Prime  and Game Cube that are causing me troubles.  I have component hookups for the last three.  I also  have a SCART connector for the Dreamcast, and if that works, my other Sega systems plus my SNES would be fine through there.

 

I also own a Mayflash component ypbpr to VGA converter.

 

My main question is is it correct to assume that the display is the largest contributing factor the input lag?  That going from ypbpr to RGB VGA is insignificant compared to that.

 

If that's the case then probably keeping the component systems upstairs with a VGA monitor would be better than downstairs with the 480i CRT.

 

What would be better buying equipment that could turn my SCART into VGA CRT, (which, if my understanding is right, only needs a 15 kilohertz to 31 kilohertz conversion.). 

 

Finally if I'm streaming upstairs, and my brother wants to play the switch downstairs on a big TV,. What would be the smartest way to do it?  Would connecting it to the large 480i Sony Wega be the smartest move (with intermediate equipment), or buying a CRT VGA monitor and using a converter I know works already?

 

(I  know I'm pretty sensitive to input ping because I can't do combos worth a darn on Street Fighter unless I'm on a CRT TV.  I noticed that when me and two other people "sing" along with the TV instrumental, I'm usually do the rhythm section and I hear sometimes the other two either lead or trail the rhythm I notice, and I'm confused whether the hum along with the TV or with my partners.)

 

The point is I don't know how sensitive my brother is to ping so I don't know whether the cheap route of a converter is okay or weather we have to consider ping for my brother.  He claims that I'm too much of a crybaby if I'm playing on an non-crt tv.

 

The point is the downstairs HDMI is not for me because I usually game upstairs when I game in my HDMI.

 

Finally for the upstairs TV where we're not playing light gun games, it does not have to be ultra-low ping where VCR control off a light gun aim a few pixels to the left or right.  1 milliseconds or less total is probably good enough for everything except light gun games.  I know you can't play light gun games on the 31 kilohertz CRT VGA monitor anyway unless it's a PC game  natively programmed think in those terms.  Consoles are programmed for their timing in 15 kilohertz terms.

Edited August 29, 2020 by tripletopper
Forgot key paragraph about degree of low ping.

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, tripletopper said:

My main question is is it correct to assume that the display is the largest contributing factor the input lag?  That going from ypbpr to RGB VGA is insignificant compared to that.

 

Being an emulation junkie 100% I've only checked lag with LCDs and DP/HDMI/VGA connections. Most CRTs are lag-free unless they're doing some digital processing and frame buffering - I wouldn't know which ones do or don't. VGA <> YCBCR should also be near lag-free.

 

Having said that, there are many converters on the market, good and bad. So you're going to have to do some raw testing on your own to find out what satisfies you.

[juansolo]

The vast majority of CRTs are lag free. Lag tends to rear it's head when you start processing to manipulate the picture in some way. Some things do this near as damnit lag free like the OSSC, most scalers however will add lag to some degree (https://www.retrorgb.com/lag-testing-retro-scalers.html), be that the Framemeister, or the scalers inside panel TVs. There may be some high resolution CRT TVs that have processing in them that might add lag, but these are pretty rare.

 

Going from 15kHz RGBs (SCART) to 31kHz RGBHV (VGA) will require processing unless you have a very expensive and rare dual, tri or multi-sync monitor, they are not compatible otherwise. Out of interest recently we put together the GBS Control (there's links in that RetroRGB thing I posted about as to how to go about it) and that's a shockingly good scaler for very sensible money. But it requires a bit of work... It's nice if all you have is a VGA monitor, but as you already have a 15kHz TV, it's kinda redundant and adding processing when it's not needed is always best avoided. You'd be able to pick up a VGA monitor for less than the cost of building a GBS Control.

 

For the things you're having problems with: Get a cheap Dreamcast VGA lead. It doesn't need to be anything flash and that'll go straight into a VGA monitor with not processing giving the best picture possible out of the unit without modding it. With the DC there's only a handful of games that are not high resolution. The PS2, Xbox and GameCube I run as RGBs into a 15kHz monitor (I used to run them all as component video when I had them into a panel). Now all three are capable of superior signals, however the vast majority of games on the three formats are not high resolution. Most things on the PS2 are 480i and look better on a CRT than on a panel at higher res, with the Xbox there's more support, but again, there aren't many at all (couple of X-Men games IIRC that I have), the GameCube has the most. Without exception I prefer all three of these consoles running on an old CRT as it suits the majority of the games better than anything high resolution. I think the biggest problem you'll have here is that I've got it in my head that the US GameCube isn't RGB... A solution to that is run a hacked Wii for running GameCube stuff. Unless you're using the GameBoy adapter, there's really no reason to use a Cube instead.

 

I can't really help you when it comes to capturing things as that'll come down to how you're splitting the signal and getting HDMI for your capture device. I know how I'd do that with my setup, but I guarentee it'll be very different to yours. I'd recommend posting a message to Bob at RetroRGB (add a question to his latest Q&A video, he answers most) as it's the sort of thing he's way more familiar with and he seems a helpful chap.

Edited August 30, 2020 by juansolo

[juansolo]

Of course I've totally forgotten that you're likely in the US so you've got more chance of using component video with CRTs (here in the UK all our TVs tended to be SCART, component is extremely rare and only really on panels). In which case running component but not high res is an option with those consoles that can output it also.

[tripletopper]

I would like to use my giant 4 X 3 Sony Wega for HDMI games.  I saw the video that running the HDMI to VGA cable was always under 200 microseconds or .2 milliseconds.

 

is there such a thing as a practical solution for HDMI games to be played on 480i component TVs?

 

if so how much is that cost compared to a CRT VGA which I know does well enough to play.