Were Pac-man and Pole Position fads of their time?

[Leeroy ST]

Now calm down, hold on hear me out. I know people love these two games as they were big deals back in the day I am well aware, I played them myself. But the amount of hype and "craze" surrounding these titles seemed to have been mostly artificial just based on how almost none of it transferred to other games.

 

For example excluding Ms.Pac-mans changes (which wasn't made by Namco, and even then Midway ran into the same issue I am about to get into) we have the following games following Pac-man:

 

Super Pac-Man

Pac & Pal

Pac Land

Pac Mania

 

I'll try to stick it too the 80's as that's Pac-Mans most successful time frame. None of these did even marginally as well. Mid Way ran into the same issue as Ms.Pac-man which ended up being the second most popular game and it wasn't even made by namco and their sequels also ran into the same issue.

 

Even if we look at the home versions of Pac-man titles we see that only the first port (2600) did really well, and then you have the Home exclusive games that never really made much of an impact unil the FIRST Pac-Man world that still only just did 1.2 million units or something close to that number.

 

Then you have Pole-Position and its spirtual sucessor Final Lap:

 

Pole-Position 2

Final Lap

Final Lap TG16

Final Lap 2

Final Lap 3

Final Lap R

 

All did poorly in comparison, the next time Namco put out a hit racer would be Ridge Racer (which came out before Final Lap R iirc) and even that is often looked at a bit too much through roses and didn't perform THAT well, but it did do good (and would be the last time a Namco racer would do that well on Arcades or home consoles but that's another discussion.)

 

This leads me to believe that a of the salivating back in the day, including now through people with heavy doses of nostalgia, never really left the original titles, Ms.Pac-man being the exception and wasn't made by Namco. Maybe if there's a hit mobile games they can get huge downloads but mobile is kind of a different thing all together.

 

It always seemed like to me that both these games were fads for the time. Also, before yous start nitpicking on failed sequels not meaning the original was a fad because it happened to other games that's wrong, no other series had had this many attempts at a series or sucessor to a series and basically retain nothing from the original game and the original not be a fad for the time. Of course, Namco isn't the only company this applies to, neither just Pac-man and Pole-Position. (heck these aren't even the only Namco games this applies to.)

 

But I wanted to cover these two games because of the toxic obsession associated with each back in the day and with Pac-man nostalgia even now (pole-position nostalgia is a bit more lax these days. 

 

[stupus]

Pac man was the first game with a character....thats huge. Plus it was fun as hell....those 2 things just made it incredible for its time. Also dont forget pac jr. and baby pac man.

Considering it still gets new releases i think it stands the test of time...but when you have games that break new ground you are never going to achieve that same original effect again.

[zzip]

Pac-man definately was a fad.    Pole Position, not so much.

 

There were no Pole-position hit songs on the radio, breakfast cereals, trading cards, candy, saturday cartoons, that I remember.   Pac-man had all of these.

 

Pac-man got lots of kids interested in gaming and arcades, and games like pole position benefited from this, and suffered when the kids stopped coming.

 

I also think racing games have a problem in that successors tend to be "more of the same".   It's hard to have innovative mechanics in a racing game once you have the basics down pat (unless you want to go full Mario Kart, but that's not what Pole Position is)   So sequels will never be as exciting as the original.

[Bill Loguidice]

3 minutes ago, zzip said:

Pac-man definately was a fad.    Pole Position, not so much.

 

There were no Pole-position hit songs on the radio, breakfast cereals, trading cards, candy, saturday cartoons, that I remember.   Pac-man had all of these.

 

Pac-man got lots of kids interested in gaming and arcades, and games like pole position benefited from this, and suffered when the kids stopped coming.

 

I also think racing games have a problem in that successors tend to be "more of the same".   It's hard to have innovative mechanics in a racing game once you have the basics down pat (unless you want to go full Mario Kart, but that's not what Pole Position is)   So sequels will never be as exciting as the original.

Pole Position did have a Saturday Morning Cartoon, but in all other ways it was nothing like the Pac-Man craze, which arguably continues today.

[Leeroy ST]

2 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Pole Position did have a Saturday Morning Cartoon, but in all other ways it was nothing like the Pac-Man craze, which arguably continues today.

 

There isn't really a craze now, the craze was in the 80's and almost nothing from the 80's really grabbed a piece of that popularity outside a game not made by Namco who ran into the same problem with their sucessors. 

[zzip]

29 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

There isn't really a craze now, the craze was in the 80's and almost nothing from the 80's really grabbed a piece of that popularity outside a game not made by Namco who ran into the same problem with their sucessors. 

Pac-man is like Star Wars, it was a huge fad back in the day, but now it's so ingrained in the culture that it's perpetually popular. 

[Leeroy ST]

7 minutes ago, zzip said:

Pac-man is like Star Wars, it was a huge fad back in the day, but now it's so ingrained in the culture that it's perpetually popular. 

The Star Wars sequels carried the popularity fromt he first film though so I don't think that's a good comparison. 

[mbd30]

Space Invaders comes to mind as an arcade fad. The game was popular for only a very short time. I was born in the late 70s and I don't recall ever playing the arcade machine only the Atari 2600 port. It was too quickly succeeded by better shooters.

 

 

[Bill Loguidice]

51 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

 

There isn't really a craze now, the craze was in the 80's and almost nothing from the 80's really grabbed a piece of that popularity outside a game not made by Namco who ran into the same problem with their sucessors. 

OK, to be more precise, let's say that Pac-Man is still very much an ongoing concern today while Pole Position not so much. Better?

[Bill Loguidice]

11 minutes ago, mbd30 said:

Space Invaders comes to mind as an arcade fad. The game was popular for only a very short time. I was born in the late 70s and I don't recall ever playing the arcade machine only the Atari 2600 port. It was too quickly succeeded by better shooters.

 

 

I strongly disagree. It remained popular at arcades (and other locations) well into the 80s and of course remains extremely popular today, appearing in products from AtGames, Arcade1Up, MyArcade, Numskull, etc., today, as well as all kinds of merchandise. It was hugely influential to countless clones and variations, including equally popular and long lasting games like Galaga.

 

If you ever get a chance to play the original arcade machine, definitely do it. It's a real treat even to this day with its mirror-like, almost holographic display and wonderful playfield artwork. That's why I'm looking forward to the delivery of my Numskull mini arcade recreation. It recreates that nifty analog presentation to go with the sturdy gameplay. 

[mbd30]

27 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I strongly disagree. It remained popular at arcades (and other locations) well into the 80s and of course remains extremely popular today, appearing in products from AtGames, Arcade1Up, MyArcade, Numskull, etc., today, as well as all kinds of merchandise. It was hugely influential to countless clones and variations, including equally popular and long lasting games like Galaga.

 

If you ever get a chance to play the original arcade machine, definitely do it. It's a real treat even to this day with its mirror-like, almost holographic display and wonderful playfield artwork. That's why I'm looking forward to the delivery of my Numskull mini arcade recreation. It recreates that nifty analog presentation to go with the sturdy gameplay. 

I was seeing the games that Space Invaders inspired such as Galaxian, Galaga and Centipede. I wasn't seeing Space Invaders machines and I recall only playing the 2600 port. This is just my experience. Maybe because it was around the mid 80s that I got into video games.

 

[+Mockduck]

The use of some words like "fad" and "toxic obsession" are odd. I mean, sure, if you consider something that is popular for a while then not as popular for the remainder of its IP life to be a fad, then most gaming is a series of fads. Fortnite is definitely a fad, as is World of Warcraft, League of Legends, etc. Why is that an issue? Also a little odd to hear about "toxic obsession" in one of the least mean collector circles I've ever encountered, that being Pac-Man memorabilia fans. There's lots out there for everyone and people have always been super cool to me. 

[+GoldenWheels]

How many (non Pac-man) maze games do you play nowadays?

 

How many (non Pole Positon) driving games do you play nowadays that use a behind the car perspective?

 

That is not to say PP is more important than Pac-Man to video game history, it of course isn't. But so far as type of game....you're more likely to play a new game closer to Pole Position style than you are Pac Man nowadays. Maze games were basically a dead end. Behind the car driving games OTOH....still a pretty big deal.

[+GoldenWheels]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

Pac-man is like Star Wars, it was a huge fad back in the day, but now it's so ingrained in the culture that it's perpetually popular. 

Disney says to hold their beer.

[mr_me]

Pacman was annoyingly popular and spawned tons of dot eating maze game rip-offs.  Pole Position redefined driving games and was what other driving games tried to emulate for years in arcades and at home.  

 

I didn't know about the pole position cartoon.  It came out a few years after the fact and if saw it I wouldn't have made the connection to the video game.  Nothing in it reminds you of the video game.

 

Pacman however was everywhere.  I don't think any video game has ever moved in to pop culture like pacman did.  Breakfast cereals, cartoons, pop music.  It was a fad.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by mr_me

[NinjaWarrior]

I cring everytime when someone misspells Pac-Man

[Bill Loguidice]

It's a bit hard to say just how influential Pole Position really was in terms of the racing genre. It was absolutely important, but we might be stretching the perspective influence just a bit if we give it credit straight through to today's racing games. I mean that third person style of racing game was around even in the electro-mechanical days. Heck, it's like the old style classroom driving simulators some of us were taught on. It seems like a natural point of view/perspective to use for such a game.

Pac-Man similarly was "just" a maze game and it had a handful of predecessors that it owes some inspiration to. Impact-wise, though, I'd argue it was definitely more widely impactful than Pole Position, particularly with it introducing character-driven gaming to the public.

 

Of course, the above is also keeping in mind that chapters 13 and 14 of my first book, Vintage Games (2009), was on Pac-Man and Pole Position, respectively, as the pivot points, so I do definitely credit each with being the most popular examples of games to talk about their respective genres. They were undeniably influential, but Pac-Man certainly had and has more going for it in terms of ongoing substance.

[zzip]

16 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

It's a bit hard to say just how influential Pole Position really was in terms of the racing genre. It was absolutely important, but we might be stretching the perspective influence just a bit if we give it credit straight through to today's racing games. I mean that third person style of racing game was around even in the electro-mechanical days. Heck, it's like the old style classroom driving simulators some of us were taught on. It seems like a natural point of view/perspective to use for such a game.

It's kind of like I remember Intellivision Baseball creating quite a stir when released.   So were future baseball games influenced by it, or was it just a natural way to implement the sport as a videogame?    I tend to think if Pole Position hadn't existed, we would have seen similar racing games sooner or later

[+wongojack]

No one has mentioned this yet, but I would also give Pac-Man some credit for popularizing the game play mechanic of clearing all the dots/things on the screen.  I know about Head On who did it first, but Pac-Man really taught people to do it.  Heck, maybe you could even give it credit for things like collecting coins in a platformer.  Just because it isn't being done in a single screen maze doesn't mean it wasn't an influence from Pac-Man.

 

Also, no one has mentioned the Pac-Man Championship Edition series.  I was just playing that last week.  Modern Maze Game.

[mr_me]

53 minutes ago, zzip said:

It's kind of like I remember Intellivision Baseball creating quite a stir when released.   So were future baseball games influenced by it, or was it just a natural way to implement the sport as a videogame?    I tend to think if Pole Position hadn't existed, we would have seen similar racing games sooner or later

It's not just baseball.  Look at intellivision football, soccer, basketball, skiing, golf.  Mattel showed everyone else how to do sports games.  And they did it again with 3D sports with intellivision world series baseball in 1983.

 

Saying pole position wasn't first with a perspective driving game is like saying apple didn't invent putting your music collection in your pocket.  Namco did it right with pole position.

 

Thanks to games like these, this stuff came sooner rather than later.

Edited August 31, 2020 by mr_me

[Leeroy ST]

19 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

OK, to be more precise, let's say that Pac-Man is still very much an ongoing concern today while Pole Position not so much. Better?

No.

 

This comparison doesnt reallt work since Final Lap was poll positions successor and flopped. If pole position had like 5 releases before then we'd probably be seeing championship editions of it with elements from those titles to span for low cost profit.

 

Issue with PP is by the time Final Lap R was out it was near 10 years since a proper pole position game. 

 

Pac-man never having a successor with a different IP doesn't have to deal with that aspect of the mind share issue.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Leeroy ST

[Leeroy ST]

19 hours ago, mbd30 said:

Space Invaders comes to mind as an arcade fad. The game was popular for only a very short time. I was born in the late 70s and I don't recall ever playing the arcade machine only the Atari 2600 port. It was too quickly succeeded by better shooters.

 

 

I agree with this because in many places Asteroids which was developed in parallel knocked it off and then you got games like Defender and etc, arguably creating more influence than just clones and similar games. 

 

 

[NE146]

Pole Position was about as much a "fad" as Zaxxon, Mr. Do, and Time Pilot.. in other words not really.  Pac-man definitely was though obviously.

[NE146]

 

15 hours ago, wongojack said:

No one has mentioned this yet, but I would also give Pac-Man some credit for popularizing the game play mechanic of clearing all the dots/things on the screen.  I know about Head On who did it first, but Pac-Man really taught people to do it. 

Space Chaser is a better example of an early dot-eater than Head-On in comparison to Pac-Man. Especially since you can maneuver freely in a maze, you're chased by 2 adversaries (rather than trying to avoid hitting them), and you could figure out patterns to clear the boards.

  

 

[Leeroy ST]

16 hours ago, GoldenWheels said:

How many (non Pac-man) maze games do you play nowadays?

 

How many (non Pole Positon) driving games do you play nowadays that use a behind the car perspective?

 

That is not to say PP is more important than Pac-Man to video game history, it of course isn't. But so far as type of game....you're more likely to play a new game closer to Pole Position style than you are Pac Man nowadays. Maze games were basically a dead end. Behind the car driving games OTOH....still a pretty big deal.

I would argue the clone hype fad caused by PP held games back if you look at it from a realistic perspective on racing progression.

 

We basically had the same narrow, poor controlling, bottom screen racing formula before PP for years and after PP it was basically kept until 3D 2.0 in 90s arcade games and home consoles.

 

In fact, 3DO Need For Speed needs more credit when talking about consoles.

 

Look at even 80's 3D.

 

Namco winning run was basically a slightly faster polygonal Pole Position in it's format.

 

Hard Driving, other arcade racers, and a few computer games were trying to create a wider track with fluid movement and lane switching with real turns and elevation with better viewing angles and opponent car perspective.

 

But consoles and even computer devs mostly switched back to PP format which always annoyed the heck out of me from Road Blasters, to hang-on, it was always annoying to see that same format with usually the only major difference being game speed or the color of the "track lines" giving the illusion of 3D.

 

Then thème were the illusion games like mode7 titles, or road riot in arcades where the graphic show you more ground but you can still only race on the narrow space in the middle.