RGB/YPbPr Intellivision Thoughts

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I actually did try using a 220µf cap and 470Ω resistor as that is what I used to correctly reroute the needed sync from the Genesis composite video signal to the composite output pin for HDR cables to work. My guess is that the HDR cables actually strip the luma and chroma signal out of the composite and then use the remaining H and V sync from that and generate a new sync output driving along the YUV outputs at that point.

 

I have not tested your newer version board or Yannicks with the corrected sync with HDR cables yet but I'm guessing I will get the same black screen I did before when I tested this.

 

[the_crayon_king]

16 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I actually did try using a 220µf cap and 470Ω resistor as that is what I used to correctly reroute the needed sync from the Genesis composite video signal to the composite output pin for HDR cables to work. My guess is that the HDR cables actually strip the luma and chroma signal out of the composite and then use the remaining H and V sync from that and generate a new sync output driving along the YUV outputs at that point.

 

I have not tested your newer version board or Yannicks with the corrected sync with HDR cables yet but I'm guessing I will get the same black screen I did before when I tested this.

 

There really ought to be a workaround for when you want to send RGBs. If I had a schematic or something to look at I could probably figure something out. Or at least conclude why it won't work.

 

If you had say a black screen on composite then there would be no chroma/luma to strip out. That is why I figured chroma/luma can't be relevant. A black screen on composite looks like C-sync just with blanking and burst (AFAIK)

Blank might be relevant but I wouldn't think they would be using burst for anything,. unless a PLL to remake clock? You don't need clock for RGB to YPbPr so I don't think burst makes sense either.

That can leave blank/black, the relative DC voltage (sync to not sync or sync to blank), and the P-P of sync as relevant factors unless I am missing something.

Maybe the HDR sync stipping is current based which may explain the weirdness.

Edited June 4, 2021 by the_crayon_king

[+-^CrossBow^-]

12 hours ago, the_crayon_king said:

There really ought to be a workaround for when you want to send RGBs. If I had a schematic or something to look at I could probably figure something out. Or at least conclude why it won't work.

 

If you had say a black screen on composite then there would be no chroma/luma to strip out. That is why I figured chroma/luma can't be relevant. A black screen on composite looks like C-sync just with blanking and burst (AFAIK)

Blank might be relevant but I wouldn't think they would be using burst for anything,. unless a PLL to remake clock? You don't need clock for RGB to YPbPr so I don't think burst makes sense either.

That can leave blank/black, the relative DC voltage (sync to not sync or sync to blank), and the P-P of sync as relevant factors unless I am missing something.

Maybe the HDR sync stipping is current based which may explain the weirdness.

I test this again last night with Yannick's new version board and it doesn't nothing at all through HDR cables. The OSSC simply doesn't see anything there and that is similar to earlier results. So yes, to use something like HDR cables will require an additional and improved composite add in to work.

 

[the_crayon_king]

7 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I test this again last night with Yannick's new version board and it doesn't nothing at all through HDR cables. The OSSC simply doesn't see anything there and that is similar to earlier results. So yes, to use something like HDR cables will require an additional and improved composite add in to work.

 

Well that is disappointing. I don't feel like making a RGB to component converter atm. 

 

Anyway, I wouldn't call it "improved composite" until it's compared to the existing composite mods. The sync is better. The video SHOULD be better but you never really know.

I went ahead and ordered 20 of the addon boards. I have like 95% of the parts laying around. I don't want to do anymore testing on this bodge mess I have laying back here.

 

I could make a board that just uses a R2R DAC and the BH7236AF.

Pros:

Would put out RGB, Composite, and S-Video.

More room for other things (another pallet?)

Easier to populate

Cons:

Would have to redesign half the board.

Board size would probably triple. 

YPbPr would be cut and instead have to have an addon board to mix RGB into Pb and Pr. This would be a little SOIC adapter and would float on top of the board. 

R2R probably less accurate than a purpose built video DAC. 

BH7236AF is no longer produced (ADV7125 is).

Sync on Green won't work either.

Lastly, I have to hand-make the design first over here. So soldering like 30 something 30AWG wires to the CPLD and then to a R2R (which would be like  54? resistors) then to the BH encoder. Not fun.

 

I wouldn't mind producing both versions that way if someone really wants composite/S-video and doesn't mind sacrificing accuracy and YPbPr functionality then they can just get that. 

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

Does anybody have install pics of the latest revision Crayon King - Inty RGB PCB? I have a Baked Potato v5 PCB here, along with an older v3. The v5 (with OSSC compatibility) will be installed, of course, this time in an Inty II. The Kono mod is still in my Sears/2609 for now, though I'll be upgrading to Crayon v5 mod once my Inty II is RGB modded.

 

I read through this 11 page thread a couple times, but information is scattered about and don't see any instructions at all for the latest revision. So a pic or explanation would help a lot, though like the old saying goes, 'a picture says a thousand words".

 

I have this job about 90% done, but the silkscreen labeling is different between the two boards (the pad Numbers [2-7] on Rev 3 are now Letters on the latest Rev 5,] A-F for example]), which has me slightly confused. Maybe I missed the explanation/update, or maybe I'm just overthinking things here, but either way, I just want to be 110% sure I have everything connected correctly before powering this on.. I'd rather be safe than sorry. All I have to do is solder the 5 color data wires to the color IC.. everything else is pretty much self explanatory and is already terminated. 5v and GND aren't crossed or anything like that, so no worries, I shouldn't fry anything. ?

 

Besides that, a little about my setup - I'm going the 8pin mini DIN (that came with the kit) XRGB/kono pinout, kono SCART cable into the OSSC or 2x-Scart. The only "extra" thing I'll have hooked up is the Palette switch (which is two wires from the middle & outer legs of the switch, to the 2 through-holes on the RGB board labeled "PAL", correct?). 

 

I think that's all.. Hopefully I'll have this up and running tonight.

Really looking forward to the better compatibility with the OSSC! Cheers

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by SiLic0ne t0aD
.

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

Sorry, false alarm, folks! Lol.

I read back over some stuff and figured it out. As I suspected, I was just overthinking it. Success! She's up and running on the 1st try.. Thank goodness.

 

This mod looks great! No flashing on the LTO menu, or on Thunder Castle (not that it was too bad for me before, personally). Looks much better than Kono's RGB overall, though I am still using his Scart cable, at least for the time being. No "model II audio buzz" either, though I might throw in that 1uf cap for shits & giggles. I tried to route the wires so that there would be minimal interference. Rock solid - so far, so good! It's fantastic having a couple pallet options too, so thanks for making that a possibility as well.

 

Thank you Crayon King, you're the man! So glad Inty fans have a reasonably priced, readily available RGB mod, that not only looks great, but is finally compatible with the OSSC! ?

[Mr. Bildo]

On 6/4/2021 at 9:04 PM, the_crayon_king said:

I could make a board that just uses a R2R DAC and the BH7236AF.

Pros:

Would put out RGB, Composite, and S-Video.

More room for other things (another pallet?)

Easier to populate

FWIW this is what Tim Worthington does on the 2600RGB mod and I'm able to use the HDRV SNES cable with it. If you ever decide to go that route I'd be happy to test one out. I have a RetroTink5X I can test on as well.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 hours ago, SiLic0ne t0aD said:

Sorry, false alarm, folks! Lol.

I read back over some stuff and figured it out. As I suspected, I was just overthinking it. Success! She's up and running on the 1st try.. Thank goodness.

 

This mod looks great! No flashing on the LTO menu, or on Thunder Castle (not that it was too bad for me before, personally). Looks much better than Kono's RGB overall, though I am still using his Scart cable, at least for the time being. No "model II audio buzz" either, though I might throw in that 1uf cap for shits & giggles. I tried to route the wires so that there would be minimal interference. Rock solid - so far, so good! It's fantastic having a couple pallet options too, so thanks for making that a possibility as well.

 

Thank you Crayon King, you're the man! So glad Inty fans have a reasonably priced, readily available RGB mod, that not only looks great, but is finally compatible with the OSSC!

Yes, I do have a request for a model 1 where the client wants both the YUV and RGB output options installed. So I will do a video on that one. I have another model 2 here now to get RGB, but it isn't using Crayon's board so the installation or I should say, the wiring is laid out different on that one. 

 

But the video I did on installing YUV output from Crayon's V3 board is the same process for the new V5. While labeled differently, the pad locations are the same as they were prior and while I hadn't seen the actual board yet when I made that video, I did mention a newer version of the board coming soon that would have the same wiring as that much I had been told ahead of time.

 

I haven't installed the palette switch on mine but what I might do, is undo the SOG switch (Since I don't need it anymore for that purpose) and route that to the palette option to switch as needed. But I do find the default palette to be really good!

 

[the_crayon_king]

@SiLic0ne t0aD I am glad everything worked out. And you are correct as long as you don't mix ground or 5V the other wires being mixed around won't hurt anything (it just won't work).

Bridging pins is another thing to look out for that could damage things. Like if you have V5 and V4 bridged and one is pulling high and the other low that is potentially like shorting 5V to ground (bad).

 

I am surprised you didn't get the audio buzz. I would suspect the OSSC is just really good at filtering this noise because all of the model 2's I have seen have this noise. That is some clean wiring BTW.

You may not know this but the way you ran clock is nice because it is ran perpendicular instead of parallel where it does cross the video lines (this induces the least amount of noise beyond using like a shielded coax cable or something). 

 

Anyway, the fastest way to get assistance if you get stuck anywhere is to message me on ebay. I reply on here pretty fast but ebay makes a noise and shows up on my phone.

 

I did get around to writing a tutorial (on the sale page) I had to cut out all the photos I had in there. I fear making it so long will dissuade people from trying it but it's there if you need it. I will post the PDF of the full tutorial when I get around to finishing it (it will have pictures). I think it is against Ebay's TOS to post PDFs on their page's so that will have to be posted here.   

 

@Mr. Bildo The NES RGB has a R2R dac similar to what I would want to do, The Atari has a little one but not like a 3X8 bit DAC AFAIK. I will make it eventually. I try to order in bulk and I have a few other things I want to get in. The little expansion board thing (that will be here any day now) should be a little stopgap until I can make an alternative board.  

 

@-^CrossBow^- I'm glad you are doing a video. For the record I keep making my own but I don't like how they turn out. Last one wasn't in frame for instance.

I remember messaging you about it but I don't think I posted in the thread that I did the pad name change because pin 4 to pad 2 is more confusing than 4 to A or whatever.

That way the chart or whatever would look like:

AY-3-8915> RGB KIT

1  (VSS)   > GND

4  (V5)     > A

5  (V4)     > B

6  (V3)     > C

7  (V2)     > D

8  (V1)     > E

13(VCC)   > 5V

15(CLK)   > CLK 

Otherwise the pin to pad names would just be a bunch of numbers,. 

 

I know I have mentioned it but the default pallet is @IMBerzerk's the secondary one is @mthompson's. If I ever have enough room I will make my own pallet for a third option.

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

@-^CrossBow^-

 

  Fantastic! Looking forward to seeing some video. Even though I was successful, I'd still like to see someone else's take on this, especially with the YUV portion, which I'll probably end up hooking up as well since you guys seem to have a better looking picture than using RGB. You can never really have too many output options imho.

 

@the_crayon_king

 

Thanks! Yep, everything worked out. I realized there might be some instructions on the ebay listing and sure enough, there was. I was pretty sure I had everything correct, but just needed a little bit of reassurance I guess.

 

I guess the relabling did make a little more sense. The unused pad on the input side (pad F) might've thrown me off a bit, but I didn't see anything about it on the color ic & mod board diagram pic a few pages back, nor did anybody else have it connected I'm their photos, so I left that alone. Everything else was pretty self explanatory. All in all, it was pretty similar to when I did the Fred K mod a few years back in a model 1/Sears, which helped immensely when doing this mod on my model II .. Just had to shake off the cobwebs.

 

A couple things I gleaned from this install is the importance of cable routing and especially hole location(s) .. Installing the DIN port on the far left side, where there's plenty of room, with no PCB in the way is highly recommended. I would NOT put it where it where I currently have it (in the middle) again. More specifically, installing it on the very bottom of the shell and not through the "ribs" (looking at it from the back) would be best. I would've done so, had I not had AV composite jacks already there. The ribs are too weak to support jacks and will crack/break if there's too much stress on them (which I found out the hard way with the RCA jacks I installed years ago). I had a helluva time getting the top shell back on too.. a real nightmare to get it to close, whilst retaining power button functionality/movement. The PCB has to be totally flat, with no bulging, or else the power button won't work.. Mine was stuck powered on until I tweaked some things a bit. The cabling should be flat as can be too, or else you'll never get the PCB flat and seated properly. Other than that, it was fairly painless.

 

I might go ahead to do the audio mod since I don't ever plan on using RF and would welcome an increase in volume at this point.. All these old consoles are on the quiet side to begin with, so I always find myself having to crank up the TV/stereo. 

 

Anyways, I plan on buying at least a couple more of your boards and will be upgrading my Sears unit next, for sure.. It definitely trumps Fred's board, so it has to go! I'll probably pick up another Inty and throw Fred's board in there and sell it off to recoup some money. We'll see.

 

[Icelvlan]

Is this the final revision for RGB?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, SiLic0ne t0aD said:

@-^CrossBow^-

 

  Fantastic! Looking forward to seeing some video. Even though I was successful, I'd still like to see someone else's take on this, especially with the YUV portion, which I'll probably end up hooking up as well since you guys seem to have a better looking picture than using RGB. You can never really have too many output options imho.

 

A couple things I gleaned from this install is the importance of cable routing and especially hole location(s) .. Installing the DIN port on the far left side, where there's plenty of room, with no PCB in the way is highly recommended. I would NOT put it where it where I currently have it (in the middle) again. More specifically, installing it on the very bottom of the shell and not through the "ribs" (looking at it from the back) would be best. I would've done so, had I not had AV composite jacks already there. The ribs are too weak to support jacks and will crack/break if there's too much stress on them (which I found out the hard way with the RCA jacks I installed years ago). I had a helluva time getting the top shell back on too.. a real nightmare to get it to close, whilst retaining power button functionality/movement. The PCB has to be totally flat, with no bulging, or else the power button won't work.. Mine was stuck powered on until I tweaked some things a bit. The cabling should be flat as can be too, or else you'll never get the PCB flat and seated properly. Other than that, it was fairly painless.

The video I've already done, was a YUV install. I used a TRRS jack with a breakout dongle for the component RCAs on my Intelly2 model. I installed the audio RCAs in the far left corner where the empty space is. But standard RCAs would fit along that back in the empty sections as you noted. Also, the board is very thin so just about anywhere on the bottom is possible to place it and have plenty of clearance for it. Although to provide as flat a spot as possible with the last one I did, I actually took my flush cutters and clipped all the leads from components in the area I wanted the board to attached to, as flat as I could.

 

The next video I do will be Yannick's RGB output board into a model 2 as I have one here now waiting for that. But I do have a model 1 that will be getting sent to me, and that client is requesting both the RGB and the YUV to be wired up. My plan is to remove his current composite mod he has now and remove the composite RCA jack. Put in two more and that will give me all the RCAs I need for the component. I will remove the RF modulator and solder a 9-pin PCB mount mini din to the ground traces where the RF was, and use the old RF opening for the opening for the RGB out.

 

Channel select switch on the bottom, will be repurposed to select between the YUV and RGB. Not sure if I will install another separate switch for palette switching, unless the client specifically requests it.

 

 

[the_crayon_king]

I attached how I do the model 2 port thing.

 

Uh, so I have been testing the R2R DAC into a NTSC encoder (for RGB, Composite, and S-Video) This removes YPbPr which could be re-added through a small addon board.

I messed up the order of my bits somewhere so at least one color is inverted (but that doesn't matter for testing p-p). 

Anyway, I have enough info to start designing a board around this idea. This upcoming board should be inferior to the current board in regard to RGB quality/accuracy (but it puts out Composite and S-Video). So it may be preferable to some people.

To be clear this won't be a replacement for the current V5 board just an alternative. I don't want to make estimates on the size or anything at this point.

 

It's a mess but I wanted others to share in the thought of what a pain this was to put together:

Black board is current V5 board with the DAC removed. Green board is a handbuilt R2R DAC, Blue board is the BH7236AF encoder circuit. 

Now I will design this and make it really small.

 

That blue board is kind of cool it's what I use in my personal consoles to get YPbPr, Composite, and S-Video out of anything that has RGBS and a clock.

 

Anyway, the end of this little blurb is that with these components you could technically put out RGB, Composite, S-Video, and YPbPr on the Intellivision and those other consoles I have been working on. 

I will test this over the next few days and let you guys know what the design will look like (assuming there are no issues).

 

I fixed the pin order so now it works:

 

I see the colors aren't as defined as before. It is likely I just have a bridged pin or something. Other than the color it doesn't appear to look any different than the addon board I have made for the V5 board.

 

 

Apparently it wants to add the image of the 8pin install to the bottom of the post so:

Edited June 11, 2021 by the_crayon_king

[Tempest]

Have you tried using an ECS through RGB?  I can't get mine to work either with the composite mod or RGB mod (Yannick's board).  I don't know if my ECS is just bad or if there's something weird it's doing that affects the video output.  Unfortunately I don't have any carts to test it with other than one homebrew (which works but appears to bypass the ECS screen).  I think it's supposed to display that ECS selection screen even without a cartridge plugged in and I'm seeing nothing.  Oddly I swear it used to work before I got my RGB mod, but it's been years since I tried it.

[the_crayon_king]

2 hours ago, Tempest said:

Have you tried using an ECS through RGB?  I can't get mine to work either with the composite mod or RGB mod (Yannick's board).  I don't know if my ECS is just bad or if there's something weird it's doing that affects the video output.  Unfortunately I don't have any carts to test it with other than one homebrew (which works but appears to bypass the ECS screen).  I think it's supposed to display that ECS selection screen even without a cartridge plugged in and I'm seeing nothing.  Oddly I swear it used to work before I got my RGB mod, but it's been years since I tried it.

Well if it is using external video then it wouldn't work over RGB. I am assuming it works over RF?

I know something like the Intellivison system changer wouldn't work over RGB for that reason. 

 

I know the model 2 has the input for external video/audio. I would wonder if part of the video for ECS is the normal V5-V1 bits that we have been dealing with and the other part is an external signal mixed with RF?

Doing something like that could allow you to have higher resolution text or something. I see the ECS is using external sound so it would make sense that it is using external video as well.

 

I think from wiki it says "In Basic Mode ... The normal text color is black against a green background" so knowing that; it is possible this external pin would look more or less like a digital signal. 

So I could possibly interface with it. Since black is the default color anyway I could just tell it to be Green when getting a logic 1. I would really need a ECS to confirm any of that. 

 

EDIT

If that logic 1 was ORed with whatever pin makes green (not the RGB outputs but further back) on Yannick's board that should work as well.

You would have to find this video output pin at a TTL logic level. On the Intellivision end of this it is probably already too low to use. 

TLDR you would need to mod your ECS by finding this pin at a high enough voltage to be used then mod Yannick's board and pass that signal to the relevant pin (through a diode) to get it to work.

 

The further problem with doing that is if you modded your ECS like that your external video would now be getting too much voltage so you would need to lift it where it is input (at the cart connector?)

Then you could rebuild whatever you bypassed inside the ECS and pass that through to the external video pin. While tapping the TTL logic for Yannick's board.

The only issue is if you ever used the modded ECS on another Intellivision you would have issues. 

 

Another solution would be to make a little 3.5 passthrough. So you would have a female 3.5mm audio jack on both the console and the ECS then pass your TTL external video signal through that. Then do as described as above. 

That is probably how I would suggest doing it. That is if all my random assumptions are correct. 

 

That's probably a lot to take it. The overall point is I think it should be possible. If I had a ECS I could do it assuming that signal (if it exists) is a simple digital signal. 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by the_crayon_king

[Icelvlan]

.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Icelvlan

[Tempest]

The ECS just adds a sound chip and  some RAM, it doesn't do anything with video.  The Intellivison should see it like a cartridge called ECS and bring up the title screen and then go to a screen that lets you select Basic or a cartridge.  
 

Im hoping that even if the screen doesn't show up the ECS games will still work.  I'll know more on Tuesday when my LTO flash comes.

[the_crayon_king]

3 minutes ago, Tempest said:

The ECS just adds a sound chip and  some RAM, it doesn't do anything with video.  The Intellivison should see it like a cartridge called ECS and bring up the title screen and then go to a screen that lets you select Basic or a cartridge.  
 

Im hoping that even if the screen doesn't show up the ECS games will still work.  I'll know more on Tuesday when my LTO flash comes.

Well that is good to know. I guess my whole muxed video line theory was a non-starter. That is something I have seen in other consoles so it wasn't something I was just drawing from nothing.

If it isn't using external video then it should work across RGB.

 

Does that mean the ECS title screen shows up over RF but not RGB ? Cause that would be weird. If it is just a quick boot screen the scaler might not have the time to setup before the screen has changed., that would be pretty normal.

If it's a static screen that stays the same for some time that might indicate something else.   

[Tempest]

I can try rf tomorrow.  It didn't show up over composite though.

[mr_me]

6 hours ago, Tempest said:

Have you tried using an ECS through RGB?  I can't get mine to work either with the composite mod or RGB mod (Yannick's board).  I don't know if my ECS is just bad or if there's something weird it's doing that affects the video output.  Unfortunately I don't have any carts to test it with other than one homebrew (which works but appears to bypass the ECS screen).  I think it's supposed to display that ECS selection screen even without a cartridge plugged in and I'm seeing nothing.  Oddly I swear it used to work before I got my RGB mod, but it's been years since I tried it.

The ECS computer adaptor won't do anything without a cartridge.  An inserted Intellivision cartridge is required, any intellivision cartridge should do.

Edited June 14, 2021 by mr_me

[the_crayon_king]

So, I am still building out the R2R DAC based design. I decided if its going to put out RGB, Composite, and S-Video then it might as well put out YPbPr as well (this will cost me like 2$ extra per board). 

I still don't know if this is something I will actually make. I will finish the design sometime this week regardless. 

 

On testing I have still had better results via the current boards with the expansion addon thing.

The issue I have right now is that my old regulator isn't a low enough tolerance; for the V5 boards a + or - 0.3V swing was irrelevant but when you are summing with a R2R DAC this swing is extremely relevant.  

Besides some 432ohm resistors and maybe the regulator nothing else should change on the schematic. I calculated the resistors I need to be somewhere between 425 and 435. The output swing of the regulator will be the limiting factor because I am going to set those resistors to not exceed 1V p-p input (when ran through the DAC ladder).  It should be mentioned that I am aware than 8X3 bits of a DAC ladder is unnecessary for the Intellivision. The reason I am doing this is so it can be compatible with other consoles/pallets. If I were only using one pallet on one console I could get away with a much simpler ladder. 

 

It's about 3.2X1.7 inches it might change size a little but not by much:

The two jumpers on the bottom left labeled PAL will have to be renamed to something else. Since I have actual jumpers for PAL regions on this.

I may just name it J1 and J2. At least one of those jumpers will set the alternative pallet. I don't know if there will be room for a 3rd pallet. I may just use it to replace a few colors that I like better. 

 

 

[Tempest]

10 hours ago, mr_me said:

The ECS computer adaptor won't do anything without a cartridge.  An inserted Intellivision cartridge is required, any intellivision cartridge should do.

Huh, and I thought that it brought up basic at least without a cartridge.  Well I hope that's the issue then after all.

 

The only cartridge I have on hand at the moment is a home brew called Copter Command.  When I plug that in it appears to bypass the ECS.  I assume this is standard behavior for a home brew?

[mr_me]

16 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Huh, and I thought that it brought up basic at least without a cartridge.  Well I hope that's the issue then after all.

 

The only cartridge I have on hand at the moment is a home brew called Copter Command.  When I plug that in it appears to bypass the ECS.  I assume this is standard behavior for a home brew?

Some other third party cartridges might do that also.  Common Mattel cartridges will give you the ECS menu.

[Icelvlan]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:13 PM, mattyv316 said:

After further testing, What I came up was this. The latest board works well through the OSSC connected to my TV. I also went back and tested the 2xSCART and did not trigger any video drop out with the LTO. I would still like to further test this. The latest board still works well with the Genesis 2 RAD2x cable as well. 

Where I did notice issues is with the RT5x. I tested the new CrayolaRGB, the v1 (in my SSVA), and the FredK RGB in my INTV2) all seem to display shaky video, but some at different settings on the RT5x. I did update my RT5x to the latest 1.2 fw, so I need to see if I can downgrade to see if the latest FW introduced any of this. 

Here is a short video of what I am referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATwWF0edZGE

 

Here is a little table from my testing the various RGB boards and scalers. I still need to further test the 5x since I am unsure if the fw update caused any of this

 

Have you tried with the latest RT5x firmware?

[mattyv316]

I have not yet. Will probably get to it one evening this week. I will update, but not keeping my hopes up.