Newbie in the house! Questions for the Experts.

[The Last Templar]

Hello All

 

Newbie here, and am very excited to start my journey of collecting and playing the consoles of my youth. However, I have so many questions, I don't know where to begin. I did search the forums, and got some answers, and was confused by others.

 

My plan is to pickup a 2600. My question centers around refurbishment. Should I pick one up that is already refurbished? I am leery of listings that declare something is refurbed. I don't know what the person did, how skilled they were, etc. Would it be better to pick up a non refurb one, and use an Atari Age community recommended refurb expert? If the 2600 is working fine, do people still refurb anyway? or wait until it dies?

My other question is in regards to connecting it to a modern TV. I ordered the adapters from Atari Age already, but what if you have multiple systems such as Coleco Vision,Atari, and Intellivision? In my search of the forums, there did not seem to be agreement on this. Some say getting some kind of non powered splitter/box would cause too much single loss, others said it was fine. How do I solve the issue of not having to keep removing and connecting the system I want to play each time? Any recommended products for this? I would like to avoid modding to connect to RCA if at all possible, that's the purist in me.

I am excited, and looking forward to joining this hobby.

 

Thanks so much!

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Last Templar

[Kevin McGrath]

The primary problem with these old consoles is that the television standards have all changed.  When they came out in the 70’s, they counted on all TV’s having an analog NTSC tuner, which was true at that time and for a few decades before and after.  But now-days you would have a tough time finding a new TV with an NTSC tuner, it’ll most likely just have a digital ASTC tuner for HDTV reception.  There are very few analog TV broadcasters anymore, and they should all be shut down in the US by July 2021.  The ASTC tuners will not work with the NTSC signal that the Atari 2600 generates.

 

The one thing you could count on with a TV in the 70’s is that it had an antenna input, so the Atari engineers stuck with that as their only way to display a picture and get audio to the TV, an extra composite output would’ve added more cost to the system and I would think most TVs wouldn’t have composite inputs in the 70’s anyway.  Cable, VCR’s and home computers would change all of that.

 

Anyway, so your Atari 2600 acts like a tiny little NTSC TV broadcaster, converting the games’ video and audio into either a channel 3 or 4 analog NTSC TV signal.  But your new HDTV only accepts digital ATSC signals.  So you either have to make modifications to the Atari 2600 and add a composite audio/video output, or you have to hook the Atari up to something that is able to receive an old analog NTSC signal like an old VCR.  The VCR will then receive the TV signal and convert it into composite output which you can hook up to your HDTV.  Or use an old TV.

 

Another thing to consider is matching the antenna impedance.  The Atari 2600 antenna signal has an old style 300 ohm that would connect to a switch box which had a forked connector at the end which you attached to your TV, and screw terminals to attach your rabbit ear antenna onto and then you would switch between the game system and live broadcasts from the antenna.  When Cable came around, they introduced the 75 ohm F connector, the kind you screw a coax cable onto.  If you used Cable, or your TV didn’t have the old style 300 ohm antenna, you had to “match” the 75 ohm impedance from the Atari to the expected 300 ohm impedance of the Cable style F connector.  So Atari antenna plugs into the RCA jack of the switchbox and the switchboxes forked leads would screw onto a 75-300 ohm matching impedance transformer which would then plug into the F connector on the device that can pick up NTSC signals (old TV or VCR).

 

The do make little boxes that are just NTSC tuners that convert the signal into composite audio/video for your more modern TVs.  They cost around $80-$100.  Ideally they would make a simple RF demodulator that had an RCA connector input for 300 ohm (Atari 2600 style), an F connector input for 75 ohm (old VCRs), a switch for either channel 3 or 4 selection and composite video and audio outputs as RCA connectors, but I haven't found anything like that yet (except on eBay for $70, which is crazy expensive).

 

Aside from cost and complication, going through all of this electronics mess will degrade the audio/video signal, so you’ll never get something as nice looking as a modified Atari 2600 that has composite, S-Video or RGB outputs.

 

If you don’t feel comfortable modifying an old Atari 2600 to have composite audio/video yourself, I would highly recommend just buying an already modified system.  Don’t spend a lot, make sure the modification has been done using a good quality convertor kit (not a one transistor mod), and don’t bother getting one with HDMI output (you can pick up a composite to HDMI convertor for < $20).  I modified my light sixer 2600 using the UAV Ultimate Atari composite mod, but there are a few other very nice mods out there that far surpass the video quality you’ll get from a simple one transistor composite mod.

 

Much more detail can be found here: http://saundby.com/atari7800mod/hookup2.html

Edited September 30, 2020 by Kevin McGrath

[The Last Templar]

1 hour ago, Kevin McGrath said:

The primary problem with these old consoles is that the television standards have all changed.  When they came out in the 70’s, they counted on all TV’s having an analog NTSC tuner, which was true at that time and for a few decades before and after.  But now-days you would have a tough time finding a new TV with an NTSC tuner, it’ll most likely just have a digital ASTC tuner for HDTV reception.  There are very few analog TV broadcasters anymore, and they should all be shut down in the US by July 2021.  The ASTC tuners will not work with the NTSC signal that the Atari 2600 generates.

 

The one thing you could count on with a TV in the 70’s is that it had an antenna input, so the Atari engineers stuck with that as their only way to display a picture and get audio to the TV, an extra composite output would’ve added more cost to the system and I would think most TVs wouldn’t have composite inputs in the 70’s anyway.  Cable, VCR’s and home computers would change all of that.

 

Anyway, so your Atari 2600 acts like a tiny little NTSC TV broadcaster, converting the games’ video and audio into either a channel 3 or 4 analog NTSC TV signal.  But your new HDTV only accepts digital ATSC signals.  So you either have to make modifications to the Atari 2600 and add a composite audio/video output, or you have to hook the Atari up to something that is able to receive an old analog NTSC signal like an old VCR.  The VCR will then receive the TV signal and convert it into composite output which you can hook up to your HDTV.  Or use an old TV.

 

Another thing to consider is matching the antenna impedance.  The Atari 2600 antenna signal has an old style 300 ohm that would connect to a switch box which had a forked connector at the end which you attached to your TV, and screw terminals to attach your rabbit ear antenna onto and then you would switch between the game system and live broadcasts from the antenna.  When Cable came around, they introduced the 75 ohm F connector, the kind you screw a coax cable onto.  If you used Cable, or your TV didn’t have the old style 300 ohm antenna, you had to “match” the 75 ohm impedance from the Atari to the expected 300 ohm impedance of the Cable style F connector.  So Atari antenna plugs into the RCA jack of the switchbox and the switchboxes forked leads would screw onto a 75-300 ohm matching impedance transformer which would then plug into the F connector on the device that can pick up NTSC signals (old TV or VCR).

 

The do make little boxes that are just NTSC tuners that convert the signal into composite audio/video for your more modern TVs.  They cost around $80-$100.  Ideally they would make a simple RF demodulator that had an RCA connector input for 300 ohm (Atari 2600 style), an F connector input for 75 ohm (old VCRs), a switch for either channel 3 or 4 selection and composite video and audio outputs as RCA connectors, but I haven't found anything like that yet (except on eBay for $70, which is crazy expensive).

 

Aside from cost and complication, going through all of this electronics mess will degrade the audio/video signal, so you’ll never get something as nice looking as a modified Atari 2600 that has composite, S-Video or RGB outputs.

 

If you don’t feel comfortable modifying an old Atari 2600 to have composite audio/video yourself, I would highly recommend just buying an already modified system.  Don’t spend a lot, make sure the modification has been done using a good quality convertor kit (not a one transistor mod), and don’t bother getting one with HDMI output (you can pick up a composite to HDMI convertor for < $20).  I modified my light sixer 2600 using the UAV Ultimate Atari composite mod, but there are a few other very nice mods out there that far surpass the video quality you’ll get from a simple one transistor composite mod.

 

Much more detail can be found here: http://saundby.com/atari7800mod/hookup2.html

Kevin my hero!

 

This is a very informative post!, wonderfull.

 

So that I understand correctly, the coax connector on the back of my newer TV will still cause an issue because of the impedance? I have purchased the adapters from Atari Age already   Why do they sell them, if impedance is going to cause an issue? I am guessing it sorta of works, but we get static?

I do have a VCR, so would my best bet be to just to take advantage of the composite connection then? What a bummer, thought I could just adapt the Atari plug, and plug away into the coax connection the TV has.

 

Thanks so much!

[Kevin McGrath]

4 minutes ago, The Last Templar said:

Kevin my hero!

 

This is a very informative post!, wonderfull.

 

So that I understand correctly, the coax connector on the back of my newer TV will still cause an issue because of the impedance? I have purchased the adapters from Atari Age already   Why do they sell them, if impedance is going to cause an issue? I am guessing it sorta of works, but we get static?

I do have a VCR, so would my best bet be to just to take advantage of the composite connection then? What a bummer, thought I could just adapt the Atari plug, and plug away into the coax connection the TV has.

 

Thanks so much!

The RCA to F Connector adapter from the Atari Age store should already change the 300 ohm impedance to 75 ohms and provide a way for you to connect your Atari 2600 directly to a TV with that type (cable F connector only) of connector... If your TV has an NTSC tuner and not just an ATSC tuner.

 

The adapter from Atari Age may just be enough to get you going, your TV may be able to decode the old analog signal just fine.  But if it doesn't, I'd try the VCR route next since you have that (with the Atari Age adapter), then get something better like an RF demodulator or mod the 2600 for composite video/audio out.

[The Last Templar]

2 hours ago, Kevin McGrath said:

The RCA to F Connector adapter from the Atari Age store should already change the 300 ohm impedance to 75 ohms and provide a way for you to connect your Atari 2600 directly to a TV with that type (cable F connector only) of connector... If your TV has an NTSC tuner and not just an ATSC tuner.

 

The adapter from Atari Age may just be enough to get you going, your TV may be able to decode the old analog signal just fine.  But if it doesn't, I'd try the VCR route next since you have that (with the Atari Age adapter), then get something better like an RF demodulator or mod the 2600 for composite video/audio out.

Ahhh ok.

The only thing my manual mentions about the tuner specs is this ATSC/Clear QAM

 

Thanks!

[insertclevernamehere]

I went the HDTV route at first but quickly found that hooking my 2600 up to a crt tv old school style was the best way.  Might be worth considering if you have the space.

[Crazy Climber]

Buy some old TV's, totally worth it...

[+D Train]

33 minutes ago, Crazy Climber said:

Buy some old TV's, totally worth it...

is that your house?

 

and I've always wanted to ask you about your avatar.  were you in a star trek fan film, or just a fan of mr. spock enjoying pizza?

[The Last Templar]

6 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said:

I went the HDTV route at first but quickly found that hooking my 2600 up to a crt tv old school style was the best way.  Might be worth considering if you have the space.

Don't really have the space, not an option.