mjnurney Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) Hi all, I’m fighting with a faulty xe130 at the mo and I need a little help... The ram was faulty and I’ve changed both banks with new old stock and it now passes the ram test, however it sometimes still boots to the ram test for no obvious reason. I have an ram test.atr program that’s tests all 128k and it appears ok. however very little will actually run on the machine, for example. star raiders loads to graphic errors goonies loads fine then goes to a blank screen. jet set Willy will loads but freezes. International karate loads and runs with graphic corruption... ram fault ? antic ?? Edited October 2, 2020 by mjnurney Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Are you using real live software (disks, carts?)? Or an multi-cart device (Ultimate Cart)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Hi Using an SDmax but I have a Eastern front cart that functions perfectly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 What are you using to conduct the RAM tests? the built in 'self test' is not very thorough, and doesn't test the extended RAM. You may still have RAM issues, or possibly bad ANTIC, MMU, or some timing issues with buffer logic... If you have another XL or XE, you can try swapping chips - but that is tedious in most XE's as it would require desoldering/socketing... Try some other main memory tests in the ATR from this post: https://atariage.com/forums/topic/189604-small-thing-memtest-10-1996-jaku-b/?tab=comments#comment-3815398 I could mail you a EPROM programmed with Shoestring's RAM tester you can temporarily put in place of the OS ROM that is very thorough - If interested PM me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 I have doubts how good the software ram test is and the built in ram test only tests the first 64k anyway. The ROM sounds very interesting ?. I don’t own an XL anymore but I do have a 400 & 800 packed away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) I’ll download and try the ram test you mention...thank you it could well be ram issues. Edited October 2, 2020 by mjnurney Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Could also be a bad ANTIC. Unfortunately, with the 130XE being mostly unsocketed, it's not the easiest machine to diagnose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Yeah that’s true but I don’t mind unsoldering/soldering... I might dig my old 800 out from the loft and try the Antic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 Well after lots of testing and Ram swapping I’ve got it almost working. Programs load and some run. I think I need to change all the ram as I have no confidence in any of the ram I’ve bought. I’ll see if I have an EPROM kicking about to burn the diag program later. so far both banks are populated with a mix of my new and old ram and one chip is piggy backed too... not ideal and it’s on a knife edge but it’s the best its worked so far. I even managed to play a bit of some basic games and I had an hour on Eastern Front (cart) which usually works no matter what. Until I can verify the ram I’m clueless if the Atari has other faults... stay tuned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) This was the Atari 130 before I socketed them ram and the ram test page. Spoiler Edited October 4, 2020 by mjnurney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 After more testing and only using one bank of the original ram, I have this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 There is a set of Resistors that you can cross connect to swap which bank is primary andwhich is secondary. That could help you narrow down which bank has bad memory. But you really should replace all of the memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 I have removed the second bank completely until I get some more ram. It’s all socketed now but at least I can play some games now in 64k. deathrace, Tetris, shamus, fair light load and play perfectly. goonies, green beret, international karate complains it needs atleast 48k. Ram test detects 64k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, mjnurney said: I have removed the second bank completely until I get some more ram. It’s all socketed now but at least I can play some games now in 64k. deathrace, Tetris, shamus, fair light load and play perfectly. goonies, green beret, international karate complains it needs atleast 48k. Ram test detects 64k. Are you holding down the Option key when booting to play those games that complain about 48k? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 The nice thing about the Shoestring RAM tester, or the Sys-check plug-in board's tests are that it tells you which chip is bad - the built in self test can not help you determine that... Otherwise you have a tedious trial and error task of finding out which combination of 8 chips out of the 32 you have result in green dots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, kheller2 said: Are you holding down the Option key when booting to play those games that complain about 48k? Yeah I try that with most things if they don’t load. 1 hour ago, kheller2 said: Are you holding down the Option key when booting to play those games that complain about 48k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) That’s what I need, a proper ram tester. Guess work only gets me so far. For all I know most of the ram might be bad but at least I’ve seen it play some games so the graphics and audio seem ok. however the extra ram and mmu are an unknown so far.. the shoestring rom needs a 27c128 ... I’m not sure I can burn that but I’ll check. Does Atari have test cartridges like the c64 ? Edited October 4, 2020 by mjnurney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, mjnurney said: the shoestring rom needs a 27c128 ... I’m not sure I can burn that but I’ll check. Does Atari have test cartridges like the c64 ? You can also use an x256 or x512 type eprom/eeprom by repeating the image. Atari released a SALT diagnostic cart for the 400/800 but it only tested 32K of RAM but it also does not identify specific chip faults. Sys-check by tf_hh is your best bet for a plug-in solution, and has other enhancements like 4x switchable OS and 512KB of extended RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 10/3/2020 at 7:30 AM, mjnurney said: I have doubts how good the software ram test is and the built in ram test only tests the first 64k anyway. The ROM sounds very interesting ?. I don’t own an XL anymore but I do have a 400 & 800 packed away. Mine is still far from perfect but what do ya expect for free . For instance it's accurate for partially bad ram, depending on where the fault is. Today I was testing some ram chips from an aux 80 col card for an Apple II, I knew one or more were bad..the built in Apple IIe diagnostic was giving me different results each time I powered up, its usually great for testing the RAM on the motherboard through. After installing those two 4464s from the 80 col card into my XE, it was able to identify U9 as the culprit and did it consistently. When I swapped the two around in the XE it told me u10 was bad. I wanted the ability to test 4464, 4164 ram chips easily. I also aimed at making something that would display a picture on the screen even with no RAM installed in the machine at all, as long as the vital components in the machine are OK... you should always see something.. even if the screen flickering like mad. Sys-check should be much more reliable because I believe it has it's own work ram on the cart. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) I think what you’ve done is fantastic and a great help to the community. I will definitely download and burn the rom, even if everything works out ok; then it’s good for piece of mind. I just need to dig my Willem programmer out. after more testing and messing about I’m now at a stage when 128k is recognised and passes testing - Radon mem test. goonies now loads ! Yay , International karate still says 48k required but the following work. moon patrol tetris death chase XE E-type (conversion) but stunt car racer says - 130XE required. gunfright freezes at the loading screen. IK+ says XE130 required. I will try a bunch of 128k games and see what happens mike Edited October 6, 2020 by mjnurney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) Could it be Mmu/Emmu issues ? Edited October 6, 2020 by mimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Yeah my next investigation I think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, mjnurney said: I think what you’ve done is fantastic and a great help to the community. I will definitely download and burn the rom, even if everything works out ok; then it’s good for piece of mind. I just need to dig my Willem programmer out. after more testing and messing about I’m now at a stage when 128k is recognised and passes testing - Radon mem test. goonies now loads ! Yay , International karate still says 48k required but the following work. Thanks. I'd say you still have a partially bad RAM chip(s) within the first 64kb of addressable memory. But you might want to check the MMU whilst your at it as emphasized by others. Some bits will fail verification at specific addresses and not necessarily at every address. But from experience these DRAM chips tend to fail completely, most likely due to some faulty power supply or as someone here once put it... a "Commodore attack" ( the act of trying to use a C64 power supply in an Atari 8 bit). Edited October 7, 2020 by shoestring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 I do have a bundle of ram now so I can chop and change as needed but the ram passes all software ram test but that said it could still be faulty. im not an Atari guy from old only having used an 800xl briefly in the 80s but I hear the ROM is not completely compatible with some 800/400 software. If so it’s possible I’m trying some software that won’t run anyway, something else I need to look in to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnurney Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Do anywhere sell the Emmu chip ? 16 Dip Ic 130Xe C25953-20 Emmu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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