Harmony menu + UAV Mod + RT2X = image retention

[Dantaipan]

First off, I know this isn't a problem with the Harmony cart but rather specific to my setup. And yes, I choose to play on a modern display, not looking to get into a CRT discussion.

 

I just did the UAV s-video mod on my 7800. I am running that into an IPS display via the Retrotink 2x. Now, I am aware that the RT2X can cause image retention on certain IPS displays but typically only when running 480i content due to the flickering effect of an interlaced signal. It seems like the flickering effect on the Harmony menu is creating a similar issue where if the menu is on the screen for more than a couple minutes it is retained on the display for some time.

 

Would it be possible in a future firmware update to make that menu flickering effect configurable so that you can turn off the flicker?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Short answer: No

Long answer:
The flicker is there for a reason. Without flicker, the Harmony cart would only display 12 characters/line instead of 24. Also the code is completely tailored to display this 24 char flicker kernel. So we cannot simply turn off the flicker.

 

Sorry.

[+batari]

I'll start with a slightly longer answer...

 

In this particular case, there isn't a lot we can do if the video hardware can't deal with a typical 2600 display. The technique used here (venetian blinds) is used in many 2600 games, so this video hardware would have trouble with those too.

 

However, it is worth mentioning that with the new BIOS, the intention is to switch to a font that has no single vertical pixels. That way the font will still be very readable even on TVs that throw away one of the two frames (some modern LCD TVs do this.)

[Dantaipan]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Clearly I am not familiar with 2600 programming tricks so it was not clear to me that it was a design requirement vs. an intentional effect. Looking forward to trying out the new BIOS and any benefit that may have 

[orange808]

There are multiple current and upcoming games that also use this effect.  So, you'll also want to be careful and stick to legacy and older software. 

 

I have an idea about a video processor that might fit this use case, but I'll have to look at it later.  Although, you would probably need to really really love the display and the Atari to buy a video processor just to play Atari on it. 

[orange808]

No luck finding a video processor to handle this for you.  I looked at a couple possibilities (DVDO iScan HD+ and Calibre HQV320) that improperly apply 480i deinterlacing on 240p signals, but no luck suppressing the flicker.  They may not have worked because they do minimal damage to 240p.  Anyhow, best of luck to you.

 

I'm certain I have a video chain that could get rid of the flicker, but the latency would be ridiculous. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by orange808

[+-^CrossBow^-]

My Extron that I plug all of my analog systems into seems to handle the interlacing pretty well so it might be possible to look into something like that to convert the signal?

 

[orange808]

3 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

My Extron that I plug all of my analog systems into seems to handle the interlacing pretty well so it might be possible to look into something like that to convert the signal?

 

Yeah, I was thinking about trying it as 480i.

 

I've owned lots of Extron, gear but I've never particularly liked the deinterlacing results with any of their machines. Although, it's not necessarily worse that what you'll get from most televisions or lots of other video gear.  Deinterlacing is such a pain.

 

Anyhow, I would suggest (maybe) using a scan converter (that can accept 240p) in the chain (to get proper 480i) before the display or an external deinterlacer.  Another possibility might be to try DVDO PReP. 

 

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I have the Extron set to output everything as a 480P VGA into my OSSC. I use 2x mode from there to the HDMI to the TV. Again, it isn't perfect but I can read all the lettering on the Harmony and UNO without any issues.

 

 

[+Andrew Davie]

On 10/7/2020 at 7:18 AM, batari said:

However, it is worth mentioning that with the new BIOS, the intention is to switch to a font that has no single vertical pixels. That way the font will still be very readable even on TVs that throw away one of the two frames (some modern LCD TVs do this.)

Hit me up for fonts!!