*FOUND & DUMPED* NTSC Lilly Adventure

[CaptainBreakout]

Any talks about a cart run?  I'm still in.

 

(or Toki, heh)

[Mr. Postman]

Not sure if anyone still cares but I’ll try to get box scans in soon.

Happy holidays.

[CaptainBreakout]

I definitely care, Mr Postman.  Thanks for doing this!!  Bit Corp is my fav of the obscure 2600 game developers. You're not alone out there.

[lostinind]

I would be up for a cartridge of this....

Edited December 17, 2020 by lostinind

[Rom Hunter]

As you already mentioned in this topic, it's not the first NTSC dump of Lilly Adventure (and to be honest, I don't really understand all the hoopla around this particular dump).

But by looking at the crocodile colors and the speed, it looks like the closest one (although in the original PAL Home Vision version the crocodiles 'float' as well).

Nevertheless, I'll put this one in my HC ROMS collection as the NTSC version of the PAL original from Home Vision (instead of the Jone Yuan one).



 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Rom Hunter

[Mr. Postman]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:17 AM, Rom Hunter said:

As you already mentioned in this topic, it's not the first NTSC dump of Lilly Adventure (and to be honest, I don't really understand all the hoopla around this particular dump).

But by looking at the crocodile colors and the speed, it looks like the closest one (although in the original PAL Home Vision version the crocodiles 'float' as well).

Nevertheless, I'll put this one in my HC ROMS collection as the NTSC version of the PAL original from Home Vision (instead of the Jone Yuan one).



 

Well the Jentsch ROM was a fan made conversion (and well done for the time) and the absolute junk speed & color Jone Yuan dump came from some random Mexican multi-game console hack & also not a cart (and the quality showed).

 

In other words, this was absolutely undumped. That was the “hoopla”.

 

This is the only NTSC cartridge of this game that has been dumped to date, and it’s pretty cool. It’s the first non-fake dump, the ONLY actual dump from a cartridge.

 

I’d call that relevant. No apologies.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Mr. Postman

[CPUWIZ]

Glad to see you back.

[Shawn]

On 12/29/2020 at 6:17 AM, Rom Hunter said:

As you already mentioned in this topic, it's not the first NTSC dump of Lilly Adventure (and to be honest, I don't really understand all the hoopla around this particular dump).

But by looking at the crocodile colors and the speed, it looks like the closest one (although in the original PAL Home Vision version the crocodiles 'float' as well).

Nevertheless, I'll put this one in my HC ROMS collection as the NTSC version of the PAL original from Home Vision (instead of the Jone Yuan one).



 

 

That single dump is more than you have ever done aside from e-begging the atari world for bins and scans. How about you piss in your own cornflakes instead? If it wasn't for people like Mr. Postman you would have NOTHING.

[Mr. Postman]

45 minutes ago, Shawn said:

 

That single dump is more than you have ever done aside from e-begging the atari world for bins and scans. How about you piss in your own cornflakes instead? If it wasn't for people like Mr. Postman you would have NOTHING.

I won’t lie, I’m surprised at RomHunter’s post. I’m very proud and excited about this dump. I’ve been searching high and low for over a decade and finally found it. I’d say it’s something special. Heck, I’d say it’s also fun because my gut reaction was to desperately try to dump it and share it immediately so that everyone could enjoy it too. It’s a shame that some people have become so bitter that they want to rain on the parade, but I won’t allow it here. This is an amazing dump and I’m having a lot of fun playing the game. Does anyone remember playing games?

I guess RomHunter does not. I used to think he was a cool person.

 

This game is a NEW DUMP, and the first real NTSC dump. The fan Jentsch conversion and “Jone Yuan” funky Mexican built-in multigame console conversion obviously were not what we’d consider real “NTSC dumps” of a game. We finally have a wonderful and fun really authentic vintage NTSC cartridge  release version to play at accurate speeds in both gameplay and audio. It’s truly nice.

Anyway, happy new year to everyone. This dump is very special to me and I’d like it to be very fun for everyone too which is why at my expense I’ve done everything in my power to make it available for all of you.
 

Please play and enjoy Atari together, Happy 2021.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Mr. Postman

[Omegamatrix]

I've taken a partial look at this rom a while back.

 

There's four roms of Lilly Adventure that I know of:

 

1) The Homevision / ITT PAL rom. There are two entries in Rom Hunter's roms, but it is an identical rom.

2) The hacked Jone Yuan NTSC rom. This has only two bytes different than the Homevision rom. The two bytes are values loaded into TIM64T, and the smaller values reduce the scanlines from 316 to 268. That's all that is different.

3) The Quelle PAL rom. This has only one byte different from the Homevision rom. It is the last byte of the rom at $FFFF. The Homevision and Jone Yuan rom have $F7 there, and the Quelle rom has $88. From what I can see BRK is not used in this rom, and neither byte value is close to the start address of $F1DC. I put a trapread in Stella and played the game for a while, but I couldn't find anything that accessed $FFFE or $FFFF.

4) The Artkaris NTSC rom. This has lots of changes. One note before I forget, it has $88 at $FFFF like the Quelle rom. The Artkaris rom has colors adjustments, but more importantly routines are moved around in the rom and there are some small differences in the code. These type of code changes would only have been done with access to original assembly code. 

 

I would say that it is highly likely that the Artkaris version is the actual NTSC version ripped without changes or is very close. I haven't studied the changes enough to say if it is an earlier prototype version or not. I do see some efficiencies gained in both the PAL and NTSC verisons so it's hard to say. I don't plan to look at this any further though and figure it all out. Here is my rough disassembly if anyone else wants to take a look.

 

Lilly Adventure.asm

 

 

[Rom Hunter]

2 hours ago, Shawn said:

 

That single dump is more than you have ever done aside from e-begging the atari world for bins and scans. How about you piss in your own cornflakes instead? If it wasn't for people like Mr. Postman you would have NOTHING.

And a Happy New Year to you too, Shawn.

[Rom Hunter]

2 hours ago, Mr. Postman said:

I won’t lie, I’m surprised at RomHunter’s post. I’m very proud and excited about this dump. I’ve been searching high and low for over a decade and finally found it. I’d say it’s something special. Heck, I’d say it’s also fun because my gut reaction was to desperately try to dump it and share it immediately so that everyone could enjoy it too. It’s a shame that some people have become so bitter that they want to rain on the parade, but I won’t allow it here. This is an amazing dump and I’m having a lot of fun playing the game. Does anyone remember playing games?

I guess RomHunter does not. I used to think he was a cool person.

 

This game is a NEW DUMP, and the first real NTSC dump. The fan Jentsch conversion and “Jone Yuan” funky Mexican built-in multigame console conversion obviously were not what we’d consider real “NTSC dumps” of a game. We finally have a wonderful and fun really authentic vintage NTSC cartridge  release version to play at accurate speeds in both gameplay and audio. It’s truly nice.

Anyway, happy new year to everyone. This dump is very special to me and I’d like it to be very fun for everyone too which is why at my expense I’ve done everything in my power to make it available for all of you.
 

Please play and enjoy Atari together, Happy 2021.

Wait a minute, Mr. Postman.

I do appreciate your effort dumping this ROM.

All I'm saying is that it was not the first NTSC dump of this game.

That one has been floating around for many years, hence the reason I didn't get the so called hoopla.

BTW: as you probably know, I'm a big fan of Taiwanese VCS games and I play them a lot (I will post some great news about Taiwanese originals in the coming weeks) and I'm a far from bitter person.

Anyway: don't be too offended by my post, keep up the good work and a happy New Year to you too, Mr. Postman.

Cheers,

Rom

Edited January 3, 2021 by Rom Hunter

[Shawn]

1 hour ago, Rom Hunter said:

And a Happy New Year to you too, Shawn.

 

No thanks.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Shawn

[+thegoldenband]

7 hours ago, Rom Hunter said:

All I'm saying is that it was not the first NTSC dump of this game.

 

That one has been floating around for many years, hence the reason I didn't get the so called hoopla.

Are you saying there's another NTSC dump besides the Jone Yuan, or what exactly?

 

Omegamatrix's work seems to indicate that the Jone Yuan is an extremely low-effort hack that does the literal minimum possible to put out a NTSC-compatible signal, whereas the Artkaris is the real deal and has large, meaningful differences from the PAL versions.

 

The difference is several orders of magnitude in the literal sense, right? So if "that one" refers to the Jone Yuan release, I would think you'd be enthusiastic about the prospect of superseding it with a proper NTSC version that might even have originated with the original programmers (per Omegamatrix).

 

It seems to me that "hoopla around this particular dump" is very much called for, if one cares about the history, playability, accuracy, and preservation of Atari 2600 games -- as I know you do! So what's going on? What's the purpose of choosing not to be enthusiastic and supportive here?

[Omegamatrix]

The changes with code being moved around are legit. That would certainly have been done by the original company.

 

The color changes and perhaps the timer value adjustments could have been done by Artkaris or a different company. My thoughts are Homevision is a PAL company. From what I recall I haven't seen any NTSC roms from them. From what we can see all of the roms have the Homevision logo so we have to hang our hat that they are the original company. This is certainly a far better NTSC version then Jone Yuan though. Most pirate companies did not convert colors. Whether Homevision, Artkaris, or some other company did it is speculative, but at least we have an old era rom that someone put the effort into to do it.

 

Looking at the code again with fresh eyes I am slightly leaning towards the rom being an earlier version, perhaps a sample copy that got out. I mostly base that on this bit of code:

  IF NTSC
    lda    ram_D5                ; 3
    clc                          ; 2
    adc    #$01                  ; 2
    sta    ram_D5                ; 3
  ELSE
    inc    ram_D5                ; 5
    lda    ram_D5                ; 3
  ENDIF

It would be very odd to go from the PAL version and create the NTSC, as you would loose 3 bytes. Not an impossible situation, but more unlikely.

 

 

[Rom Hunter]

2 hours ago, thegoldenband said:

Are you saying there's another NTSC dump besides the Jone Yuan, or what exactly?

 

Omegamatrix's work seems to indicate that the Jone Yuan is an extremely low-effort hack that does the literal minimum possible to put out a NTSC-compatible signal, whereas the Artkaris is the real deal and has large, meaningful differences from the PAL versions.

 

The difference is several orders of magnitude in the literal sense, right? So if "that one" refers to the Jone Yuan release, I would think you'd be enthusiastic about the prospect of superseding it with a proper NTSC version that might even have originated with the original programmers (per Omegamatrix).

 

It seems to me that "hoopla around this particular dump" is very much called for, if one cares about the history, playability, accuracy, and preservation of Atari 2600 games -- as I know you do! So what's going on? What's the purpose of choosing not to be enthusiastic and supportive here?

I posted that comment almost a week ago and I regret it now, certainly after Omega's examinations of the code.

The first time I read the topic header, I thought: 'That one has already been dumped ages ago. What's so special about it?'

That's all, no less no more.

I'm glad it has been dumped.

I'm still puzzled about the floating crocodiles in the PAL Home Vision version, though.

Why would the released PAL Home Vision version contain this 'glitch'?

Edited January 3, 2021 by Rom Hunter

[+thegoldenband]

4 hours ago, Rom Hunter said:

I posted that comment almost a week ago and I regret it now, certainly after Omega's examinations of the code.

The first time I read the topic header, I thought: 'That one has already been dumped ages ago. What's so special about it?'

That's all, no less no more.

Thanks for that! And with that, hopefully all's well that ends well on that front.

 

@Omegamatrix Thanks again for your research into this. I find this kind of forensic investigation of data (if you like) really fascinating!

[CaptainBreakout]

Well, since this really tickles my Bit Corp funny bone, I tugged at the sleeves of a wizard. Low and behold this gem showed up in the mail...

 

 

It plays great too!

 

 

I never played the dump in an emu... I was betting the cart would be worth it.

 

I already like it better than Bobby.  I think I got about 20 screens into it (Bobby only had a handful).  The music, such as it is, is multi-timbrel and plays during gameplay, which is more than can be said for the majority of 2600 games. Also it's not... um... off-key as Bobby, at least not as much.  I also just found out I could land on the turtles, which was a happy mistake.  You'd think I'd have tried that earlier what with photoshopping the label and all.  Anyway, nice this early platformer has some layers.

 

Anyway, bravo Mr Postman!  Total 80's Taiwan charm (by way of Argentina) just like I'd hoped. I'll try this game with my kids next game night now that I gave it a little run.

 

[Mr. Postman]

23 hours ago, CaptainBreakout said:

Well, since this really tickles my Bit Corp funny bone, I tugged at the sleeves of a wizard. Low and behold this gem showed up in the mail...

 

 

It plays great too!

 

 

I never played the dump in an emu... I was betting the cart would be worth it.

 

I already like it better than Bobby.  I think I got about 20 screens into it (Bobby only had a handful).  The music, such as it is, is multi-timbrel and plays during gameplay, which is more than can be said for the majority of 2600 games. Also it's not... um... off-key as Bobby, at least not as much.  I also just found out I could land on the turtles, which was a happy mistake.  You'd think I'd have tried that earlier what with photoshopping the label and all.  Anyway, nice this early platformer has some layers.

 

Anyway, bravo Mr Postman!  Total 80's Taiwan charm (by way of Argentina) just like I'd hoped. I'll try this game with my kids next game night now that I gave it a little run.

 

How awesome, welcome to the club! Yes, walking on the turtles is great! You can also land on the crocodiles when they shut their mouth. 
 

Be sure to put the right difficulty on A  to disable unlimited lives and unlock all stages! ?

[Mr. Postman]

On 1/3/2021 at 11:14 AM, Omegamatrix said:

The changes with code being moved around are legit. That would certainly have been done by the original company.

 

The color changes and perhaps the timer value adjustments could have been done by Artkaris or a different company. My thoughts are Homevision is a PAL company. From what I recall I haven't seen any NTSC roms from them. From what we can see all of the roms have the Homevision logo so we have to hang our hat that they are the original company. This is certainly a far better NTSC version then Jone Yuan though. Most pirate companies did not convert colors. Whether Homevision, Artkaris, or some other company did it is speculative, but at least we have an old era rom that someone put the effort into to do it.

 

Looking at the code again with fresh eyes I am slightly leaning towards the rom being an earlier version, perhaps a sample copy that got out. I mostly base that on this bit of code:

  IF NTSC
    lda    ram_D5                ; 3
    clc                          ; 2
    adc    #$01                  ; 2
    sta    ram_D5                ; 3
  ELSE
    inc    ram_D5                ; 5
    lda    ram_D5                ; 3
  ENDIF

It would be very odd to go from the PAL version and create the NTSC, as you would loose 3 bytes. Not an impossible situation, but more unlikely.

 

 

Yes, I’m guessing that this is a GEM International Sample ROM, a plausible & 

IMO probable subsidiary or Side deal of Bit Corp with Homevision (due to the Jacky Jump (Bobby) Bit Corp game & cart shell as well as other Bit Corp ties with other Bit originated titles like Cosmic War, Tanks War & Teddy Apple.

 

 As we already know it’s not uncommon for South American companies to have sourced unreleased proto ROMS (sometimes apparently claimed by official means) So many previously believed unreleased games have surfaced from retail releases in South America and we’re all quite thankful.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Mr. Postman

[Mr. Postman]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:57 PM, thegoldenband said:

 

Hey, thanks a bunch for that manual scan! That's really interesting to see that they referenced 256 scenes specifically. I think your younger self was exactly right about 100 lives being the trigger for a GAME OVER. This line is funny: "When she is dead, she loses a life". Well, yes.

 

I think that's exactly it -- that, or there are 256 possible stages that can be generated from the seed they're using. Maybe it might be a LFSR similar to the one Pitfall uses?

In the absence of reverse-engineering the game's stage generation algorithm (which I don't have the chops to do), it'd be great to document exactly how many combinations of playfield, enemies, alligators/turtles, and colors there are. It's possible, for example, that there are more than 256 possible combinations but that the differences are cosmetic, i.e. colors.

 

I like the idea of attempting to loop the game on Difficulty A in principle, though right now I'm overcommitted and probably can't take it on (playing it yesterday was a temporary bout of escapism ). Still, having completed Difficulty A -- and knowing that the difficult Stage 91 I encountered isn't inevitable -- makes me curious. I might take a shot at checking out that Homevision ROM to see whether it has the same behavior and RAM locations, though!

 

Well I had a good run yesterday. The stages build up in difficulty and complexity and reset after 128 stages so the 2-digit level number isn’t the only factor. From 129 onwards for the second go around I think the stages were a different combination until after 256. The game does not end but I believe stage 257 was the same as the first stage 00. 
 

I wish I had a recording of my gameplay, I wish I could compare levels 00, 129 & 257 to see if they were identical or not. Either way, with all the different starting seed combinations I imagine that there are thousands of unique stage color/enemy/layout variations. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Mr. Postman