Who is still using his/her CSS The BlackBox!

[+mytek]

4 hours ago, MrFish said:

 

I'm just answering the post about "features other upgrades still don't have".

 

I'm not knocking the BB. It's a marvelous device and, as I've said, I'd like to have one.

 

Honestly, I think there's definitely a place for a modern all-in-one solution, in the spirit of the BB and MIO.

 

No worries, I wasn't being defensive in my last post.

 

To be honest I would also add that the BB is a huge and oddly shaped board, and didn't adhere to the rules of a PBI device, thus hogging all the possible IDs. Now days, IDE, or any other more modern interface (SATA) would make more sense. And of course SD solutions have really taken over. But back in the day it was the cat's meow .

[+MrFish]

17 minutes ago, mytek said:

No worries, I wasn't being defensive in my last post.

 

To be honest I would also add that the BB is a huge and oddly shaped board, and didn't adhere to the rules of a PBI device, thus hogging all the possible IDs. Now days, IDE, or any other more modern interface (SATA) would make more sense. And of course SD solutions have really taken over. But back in the day it was the cat's meow .

 

I guess their the idea with the black box was that if it did everything you needed, then it could use the PBI however it wanted.

 

Use-wise I suppose it depends on what you want or need to accomplish. Many people still have a lot of old media they need/want to interface. So, devices like these can still make sense. For those interested in a more modern approach, it might just be an interesting relic. It certainly holds it's place in history. One thing remains true, though, and that's the need to test software on real hardware. So, being able to stop program execution and debug is a feature which won't soon run out of proponents. Although, phaeron is doing his best to make it so. I'd say these days, Altirra takes the brunt of development debugging, with real hardware being the final stage of each test cycle.

 

Yeah, your cats validated that sentiment. Haha...

 

[Marius]

@MrFish You say true things.

 

For me the blackbox is part of my own personal Atari 8bit history. I obtained my first BlackBox in 1995 when I also started with my BBS "BBS The Atari Inside" ... I was atari enthusiastic from 1985-1990 ... when I sold my atari stuff in 1990 (and went to Atari ST) I almost immediately realized that was not my best move. But back then I was 14 years old, and I was also happy with my Atari ST (lol one of the first things I used was the Atari Xformer 8bit emulator haha) ... so in 1994 a Dutch local toy store started to sell Atari 8bit computers as packages (10 games + 65XE / 800XE + joystick + paddles) for almost no money. 

 

So I decided to buy some (well quite a lot) of these computers. 

 

So that was my Atari 8bit renaissance. And in 1995 the blackbox found its way to my home. And that was when my real atari 8bit hobby started. I learned to code in 6502, I started making music, I did the BBS, I connected to many Atari 8bit BBS's (like Becotel and Thunderdome, and the Stack BBS from Bo & Ernest Schreurs). Everything with the atari of course (with Bobterm, and also with Ice-T). 

 

I can't describe HOW MUCH FUN this era was. I was 19 years old, had quite some atari 8bit computers, a blackbox... it was all day long atari 8bit, and I enjoyed it every single minute (it was slightly an addiction / obsession perhaps?)

 

I have to be honest. I miss this time. Today everything is perhaps TOO perfect. The modern storage solutions are better than the blackbox. Faster, more versatile (with the ATR mounting, and the APT partition system, the built in SDX etc). and I am pretty convinced the newer solutions are more reliable too (I can not remember I had a corrupted partition the last 15 years... something I had from time to time on my blackbox).

 

But still, the blackbox has a place in my hearth. In some way MyIDE (and 2) has this too, since I have been following the MyIDE project intensively when it was developed. Haha the main reason for my interest in MyIDE was simply because back then I was convinced that my fabulous BlackBox would die one day, and then I wouldn't have a good alternative. But just like a8 equipment, the blackbox is still in a working condition.

 

An update of the blackbox would be awesome. At 'least' it should support ATR mounting, APT partition table and FAT32 read (write?) ... those are three things that I miss the most on the blackbox. On the other side, it definitely should keep it's momentary-IRQ-freeze button. Just like what I wrote to @drac030 ... it is one of the strengths of the blackbox. The whole BlackBox eco-system is nice, with all the built in tools (with the enhancer, which is nothing more than a bigger eprom and a few wires), the Hardware Flow control R: interface, the P: interface, and the amazing menu where you can mount/unmount partitions, set Hi-speed I/O on/off, the easy swapping.

 

So yes... what is my choice here. Do I keep using the modern and fabulous solutions? They serve me so well. And indeed, IDE+ is such an amazing HD interface. It does almost everything I wish from a HD interface on a Stock Atari.

Or do I move (permanently?) back to the blackbox... it would definitely make me happy because of the nostalgia (although the fun days will not come back in exact that way).... and I still think the way of operation with the blackbox is really that fits the way I am (deep inside) used to work with a8. 

 

A real big downside is the physical size of the blackbox. I love atari 8bit that does not take much space (I love the 600XL) and the IDE+, MyIDE, SIDE solutions are so much smaller. I love that. Both the looks and the flexibility on the desk. 

 

Arg... choices choices choices.

 

Anyone here who can give me a good advice? 

 

 

[+Larry]

23 hours ago, drac030 said:

That is kinda pity (that you can't be specific). What kind of incompatibilities, at least?

Well, since you asked, I did a little digging.  And if you wish, I'll make some notes when I run across things in the future. BTW, I've been using bios 1.6 for some time, and 1.5 before that.  I haven't tried any more recent releases.

 

I don't play games, so these are issues with other hardware or applications.  You know about this first one -- if you are using the IDE+2 Ultra Speed, then you can't print to APE.  Other operations with APE work fine.  You originally said you'd fix it, but then declined.  I use APE for printing 100%, so this one is particularly bothersome, although accessing the menu provides a work-around.

 

 

 

[Marius]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Well, since you asked, I did a little digging.  And if you wish, I'll make some notes when I run across things in the future. BTW, I've been using bios 1.6 for some time, and 1.5 before that.  I haven't tried the recent releases.

 

I don't play games, so these are issues with other hardware or applications.  You know about this first one -- if you are using the IDE+2 Ultra Speed, then you can't print to APE.  Other operations with APE work fine.  You originally said you'd fix it, but then declined.  I use APE for printing 100%, so this one is particularly bothersome, although accessing the menu provides a work-around.

 

 

 

I remember I had issues with printing to Atari 850 at first too when HiSpeedSio was enabled in IDE+, but @drac030 fixed that. I print also a lot (using Syncalc and The Last Word) using Epson LQ400 and IDE+ as my main HD interface.

 

Is there a chance this is a bug with APE? In stead of IDE+?

[+Larry]

Hi Marius-

I wouldn't call it a bug, since APE printing works with other forms of Ultra Speed.  IIRC, it has something to do with the ACK that APE recognizes and the IDE+2 doesn't (or visa-versa).  IMO APE printing through a Win printer (including Atascii) is super slick! I typically use the Atascii printing for Basic listings.  

-Larry

[AtariGeezer]

I still have a BB, but no desk space to use it.  Still looking for a Floppy Board to complete it...

 

[+MrFish]

@Marius

Nice history: Atari 8-bit -> Atari ST -> Atari 8-bit (forever). Still use the ST equipment at all?

 

Personally, if I had a Black Box and liked to use it as much as it sounds like you do, I'd have two machines set up, one for the Black Box and one for the other modern hardware; and some way to share resources between them (SIO2PC or a storage media cartridge that plays well with the Black Box).

 

[Marius]

1 hour ago, MrFish said:

@Marius

Nice history: Atari 8-bit -> Atari ST -> Atari 8-bit (forever). Still use the ST equipment at all?

 

Personally, if I had a Black Box and liked to use it as much as it sounds like you do, I'd have two machines set up, one for the Black Box and one for the other modern hardware; and some way to share resources between them (SIO2PC or a storage media cartridge that plays well with the Black Box).

 

 

Hi!

 

No the Atari ST stuff ( I had really a lot ) is donated to a friend. There was quite some cool stuff with it. I also had many Portfolio's and stuff. Also donated. I stick with a8 only, since that is where my heart is.

 

Although, I have to admit, I wished I kept one or two ST's.... making musical arrangements on Cubase was always an amazing adventure on its own. So pity that I do not have any ST left, but hey... the atari 8bit is the best!

 

I currently do not have the space for more than one setup. Actually, I should not have an atari 8bit setup at all, since it occupies my only desk space in the house. Haha but life is all about priorities, so that means there is an a8 setup.

 

I will try to connect the BB soon, and experience how things go. If it is exclusively nostalgia, but not practical... I'll move back to IDE+ or Side or MyIDE or whatever.

 

Totally unexpected, this turned out to be a great thread.

 

[drac030]

6 hours ago, Larry said:

You know about this first one -- if you are using the IDE+2 Ultra Speed, then you can't print to APE.  Other operations with APE work fine.  You originally said you'd fix it, but then declined.

TBH, I do not remember such conversation, which does not mean naturally, that it did not take place. Anyways, IDE+ BIOS does not handle printer calls at all: every call to device $40 (printer) is passed down to the underlying OS without any processing. So I have no idea why it should not work, unless APE uses some other device code/unit. There is code in the BIOS to handle the APE Time protocol. Is the printing to APE still not working, when you switch it off?

Edited October 21, 2020 by drac030

[+Larry]

Hey, what can I say...  APE printing works fine in bios 1.6.  Sorry, I just blindly did not try it when you released new versions. Whenever I wanted to print, I went to the IDE+2 menu and turned off the Ultra Speed. Perhaps when you fixed the 850 issue, it took care of APE. (?) It prints whether APETIME is on or off.

-Larry

[drac030]

14 hours ago, Larry said:

APE printing works fine in bios 1.6

Good. I like when problems get solved by themselves

[Sardius]

This was a Black box acquired directly from Bob Puff. It was the last one he had.  still works, but have had it boxed away for quite sometime now. 

[doctor_x]

On 10/19/2020 at 4:41 PM, itzmike said:

At one point in time I'd owned a 256k MIO, a 1Meg MIO and a BB/FB combo.  The 256k MIO went to Ronnie Riche which allowed him to complete the final release of TextPRO.  I can recall him being in awe of the speed of the compile times from the ram disk and that he could keep everything, "right there".

 

A good 12 years ago, I'd lent out the BB/FB, MUX system, some XL's and and XE to a teacher friend that wanted to show off retro computer to their class.  Some how they'd pulled to BB out of the XE and, tried to "Jam" it back in the slot.  Blew the power supply, peeled the PBI off the the mother board and I seem to recall having to replace one chip on the BB.  New power supply is an old PC switching supply, the XE got used to practice soldering skills.  Replaced the XE OS in my 1450xl with a MUX OS and tied it to an XL running the BB/FB and 16meg dive. 

 

The 1Meg MIO still gets used as well, it's currently attached to an XE, several floppy drives, and ATR8000 and two drives:  either the ATR or the attached drives needs work, the A: drive attached to the ATR now just seeks (click o death) while the B: drive boots and reads fine.  got a feeling when I do finally open it all up, I'm going to find a fat cap some place or a diode not doing it's duty.

Wait... Did you say that you have a 1450XL??

[+SoulBuster]

I have three black boxes.  Only using one right now.  it is attached to this:

 

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