Which is the best Atari ST emulator for pc?

[legolas119]

HI

i'm loooking for a really good Atari St emulator for pc. What do you suggest? Is Hatari the best choice?

thanks!

[English Invader]

If you're on Windows, Steem is the way to go; if you're on Linux, use Hatari.  Never used Mac so I can't offer any recommendations there.

[darwinmac]

I would also recommend Hatari on macOS. You would have to run Steem or Steem SSE in Wine or a Windows virtual machine. Hatari has a native macOS binary. 
 

Bob C

[jblenkle]

In order of preference, I use: 1. SainT, 2. Hatari, 3. Steem.

 

I've always liked SainT the best.

[legolas119]

I'm on Windows 10.  

thank you, I'm looking for Steem here: http://steem.atari.st/download.htm  but it is not possible to download Steem SEE, the link is broken...it seems that the link of Steem SEE is alwasy broken in every website...

 

ok i will download SainT too...i will try both Steem and SanT in order to check which is the best and which is the most uder friendly too...

 

 

[A8Watcher_808]

I prefer Steem SSE on Windows also.  The main thing I like is when I want to play games or music software with midi music support it's as simple as picking which midi device you want to use from a drop down menu. You can find it at https://sourceforge.net/projects/steemsse/

 

[zzip]

Hatari is my choice.   Steem used to be great, but I've had issues with more recent SSE builds.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Should not look at Steem SSE as some newer Steem version. Original Steem development was finished in 2004, version 3.2 .

Then big pause - until source files were released - 2011. Then Steven Seagal went in adding new features, correcting some things, and it is called Steem SSE. Pretty much independent from original SW, and as I know there is no any support from original Steem authors. And no DL of SSE on sites dedicated to original Steem.

My experience is that original Steem, and I used only version 3.2 is very well concepted, coded and tested SW. It even has some ASM (80386) code for speed, rare thing among Windows SW. There are some minor bugs, some not very deep HW section emulation - like IKBD chip. But it affects really small number of SW - mostly some games. It emulates very well about 99% of Atari ST(E) SW, and that is what matters. Easy to use, GUI looks good.

SSE has lot of experimental solutions, author self called some of them 'hack' . So, no wonder that there are some 'issues' .

And yes, no SW what is 'best' for everyone, every situation. Actually, threads like this are really boring.

My answer is: try them all, read instructions, run your beloved SW under them, and that will give you answer. Surely, needs some time, but being judge is well spent time ?

 

[legolas119]

thank you.  Well, I downloaded them and:

 

1) SaintT: when i run it, it opens but it freezes, I can't move the mouse pointer at all...I can only push CTRL+ALT+CANC and close SaintT.. I don't know how to solve this issue...:(

2) Hatari: i unzipped the latest version in a folder and I downloaded from the official webpage the emutos-512k-1.0.zip pack. I unzipped it in a folder in the same installation folder of Hatari. It includes all these files, is ti the right installation or does I need to change/add anything?

 

3) Steem: I configured the 3.2 version and during the initial set up it asked me the folder where I put the TOS. I have 2 TOS files: Tos102uk.img and tos106fr.img, both in the same emulator installation folder. Currently I loaded the tos106fr.img file. I leave the default settings in the emulator and I set in this way the folder where I will put the games image: in the Atari ST rom folder , i created also the ST Hard Drive C and ST Hard Drive E folders, as in the image below. Is it a right settings?

 

4) Steem SEE: I configured the 4.0.2 version and during the initial set up it asked me the folder where I put the TOS. I have 2 TOS files: Tos102uk.img and tos106fr.img, and as in the Steem emulator, both are in the same emulator installation folder. Currently I loaded the tos106fr.img file as in Steem. I leave the default settings in the emulator and I set in this way the folder where I will put the games image: in the Atari ST rom folder , i created also the ST Hard Drive C and ST Hard Drive E folders, as in the image below. Is it a right settings?

thank you very much

[zzip]

Just now, legolas119 said:

thank you.  Well, I downloaded them and:

 

1) SaintT: when i run it, it opens but it freezes, I can't move the mouse pointer at all...I can only push CTRL+ALT+CANC and close SaintT.. I don't know how to solve this issue...:(

2) Hatari: i unzipped the latest version in a folder and I downloaded from the official webpage the emutos-512k-1.0.zip pack. I unzipped it in a folder in the same installation folder of Hatari. It includes all these files, is ti the right installation or does I need to change/add anything?

 

If you have actual TOS files, you don't need emutos for hatari, you can use a real TOS.   I believe the F12 key will bring up the configuration menu where you can specify where your TOS files are.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Should not look at Steem SSE as some newer Steem version. Original Steem development was finished in 2004, version 3.2 .

Then big pause - until source files were released - 2011. Then Steven Seagal went in adding new features, correcting some things, and it is called Steem SSE. Pretty much independent from original SW, and as I know there is no any support from original Steem authors. And no DL of SSE on sites dedicated to original Steem.

Yeah, I remember when Steem was the gold standard for ST emulators.   It was the only one that had STe features for awhile.   I know SSE releases are done by someone else.

 

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

And yes, no SW what is 'best' for everyone, every situation. Actually, threads like this are really boring.

My answer is: try them all, read instructions, run your beloved SW under them, and that will give you answer. Surely, needs some time, but being judge is well spent time

This is true.   For me I like to run my emulator in full-screen, not in a window.   Some emulators seem more oriented towards one than the other.   And if I have to switch out of full-screen, I don't want my mouse to be locked inside the emulator until I press some obscure key-combination that I can never remember.   Also my emulator front-end will determine what TOS version,  memory, mono color, ST/STe/Falcon mode is needed for a particular game and expect to pass that info to the emulator.   All of this worked better for me with hatari than Steem.    However Steem has a nice built-in front-end that I'm sure many people will be happy with.

[legolas119]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

If you have actual TOS files, you don't need emutos for hatari, you can use a real TOS.   I believe the F12 key will bring up the configuration menu where you can specify where your TOS files are.

Are you reffering to Tos102uk.img and tos106fr.img ?

[+CyranoJ]

If Hatari's user interface wasn't from the 1970s it would be Hatari, but its Steem 3.2, all the way.

[darwinmac]

32 minutes ago, CyranoJ said:

If Hatari's user interface wasn't from the 1970s it would be Hatari, but its Steem 3.2, all the way.

Quite simply, there are no Windows developers working on Hatari. That’s why Windows users are stuck with the SDL interface. 
 

While there are not active macOS developers for Hatari, work was done years ago to use a native interface and other users have tried to keep the macOS interface up to date. 
 

If someone who did Windows development volunteered to make a Windows-native interface, I’m sure the developers would accept it. All of the main Hatari developers use Linux as their OS of choice. 
 

Bob C

[+CyranoJ]

44 minutes ago, darwinmac said:

Quite simply, there are no Windows developers working on Hatari. That’s why Windows users are stuck with the SDL interface.

Yep, I understand that.  Doesn't change the fact that its horrific to use and thus pushes Steem to the front (Especially with the Boiler Room)

[darwinmac]

I simply wanted to mention it in case there was anyone interested in adding a Windows-native interface. 
 

If I was a Windows user, I’d use Steem as well. 
 

Bob C

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Just to add here, that there is Linux build of Steem 3.2, and it is done very well, with GUI designed special for Linux. Unfortunately only regular Steem. There is no Steem Debugger (or Boiler) for Linux. But it is not for average user. And huh - since sources are now open, I guess that it is possible to make, with some effort. Maybe special Linux GUI is what is missing ?

Hatari developers are for open source, free SW, and that means actually being anti-Windows in some way. Well, I don't think that it will change the World - most of people will still use Windows.  They have some guy for testing and correcting Windows builds (was so some 4 years ago, so I guess still), and that's it. There was mentioning then that someone should work on Windows v. GUI . And it seems that no one is motivated for that, not so easy task.

Personally, I don't have bigger problems with Hatari GUI in Windows v.  After so many years got used to it. As bigger problems I see: later versions need really strong PC, especially TT, Falcon emulation. They push some 'strictly follow rules' concept (same as with EmuTOS, which self is pushed too all time) - so there are things what work 'better' in emulator than it is case with real Ataris. I mentioned it already in programming section - case of non-working new Atari SW from floppy, while it worked via Hatari with GEMDOS disk emulation - it really should not accept slash in path, because TOS accepts only backslash.

Yeah, I say that really good emulator should emulate flaws too, or at least there should be switch, and let user to decide it.

 

Myself did some updates to Steem 3.2, for my needs, ideas. Here is latest one: SteemDV.zip

DV means 'double volume' - I added second audio volume setting in Options/Sound section. So, there is separated control of PSG and DMA audio levels. And reason for it is flaw in STE design - DMA audio level is much lower than PSG level (corrected only by Falcon).

There is added emulation for analog inputs of STE advanced joysticks too, little for floppy image creation, wake up state ...

Just place it in your Steem directory (not SSE) and run.

[MrMaddog]

At least there is a Windows port of Hatari, good luck trying to run Aranym on Windows w/o using a virtual machine to run a Linux distro for it.  That's why I hadn't been able to run FreeMiNT for years...

 

 

[zzip]

3 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

At least there is a Windows port of Hatari, good luck trying to run Aranym on Windows w/o using a virtual machine to run a Linux distro for it.  That's why I hadn't been able to run FreeMiNT for years...

Aranym has sucked on Linux for years too.  I keep going back to an old build because the newer ones don't work correctly

 

6 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Just to add here, that there is Linux build of Steem 3.2, and it is done very well, with GUI designed special for Linux.

Yes, I used to use it,  worked very well.   Had problems with it on newer Linux distros though

[MasterMotorola]

On 10/20/2020 at 5:47 PM, CyranoJ said:

If Hatari's user interface wasn't from the 1970s it would be Hatari, but its Steem 3.2, all the way.

Linux applications ported to Windows look like crap, Windows programs ported to Linux look like crap.  Hatari on my Linux PC looks great, Steem is ugly.

[+CyranoJ]

42 minutes ago, MasterMotorola said:

Linux applications ported to Windows look like crap, Windows programs ported to Linux look like crap.  Hatari on my Linux PC looks great, Steem is ugly.

It's not just that it "looks like crap" - I could probalby live with that (CMD.exe rules)

 

The last time I tried it the config window opened up half the width of the options screen and nearly all the selections couldn't actually be pressed, the version before... the mouse pointer couldn't track the entire width of the control panel options.  It was unusable, not just ugly.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

10 hours ago, MasterMotorola said:

Linux applications ported to Windows look like crap, Windows programs ported to Linux look like crap.  Hatari on my Linux PC looks great, Steem is ugly.

I would not come with such general statements. There is lot of SW what looks great on both platforms. It's all matter of effort, knowledge invested.

And unfortunately there is too much Linux distro, from different teams, companies, which don't collaborate enough, and force own ways. The result is need to develop special versions of popular SW for almost all popular actual Linux distros . And it just can motivate lot of people to turn to Windows - at least there user interface from 2000 still works and looks well in latest revisions in 2020.

[zzip]

6 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

The result is need to develop special versions of popular SW for almost all popular actual Linux distros

Things aren't quite that bad!   In general software will run on all mainstream Linux distros unchanged if you copy from one Linux to another.

 

What is different is different distros have different package formats and package managers, so you might see sites distribute *.deb files (for Debian, Ubuntu),  *.rpm (for Red Hat, CentOS, etc).   However there are also distro-agnostic package managers like "snap" or "appimage" which will allow the software to be installed easily on any Linux distor

[legolas119]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:05 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Just to add here, that there is Linux build of Steem 3.2, and it is done very well, with GUI designed special for Linux. Unfortunately only regular Steem. There is no Steem Debugger (or Boiler) for Linux. But it is not for average user. And huh - since sources are now open, I guess that it is possible to make, with some effort. Maybe special Linux GUI is what is missing ?

Hatari developers are for open source, free SW, and that means actually being anti-Windows in some way. Well, I don't think that it will change the World - most of people will still use Windows.  They have some guy for testing and correcting Windows builds (was so some 4 years ago, so I guess still), and that's it. There was mentioning then that someone should work on Windows v. GUI . And it seems that no one is motivated for that, not so easy task.

Personally, I don't have bigger problems with Hatari GUI in Windows v.  After so many years got used to it. As bigger problems I see: later versions need really strong PC, especially TT, Falcon emulation. They push some 'strictly follow rules' concept (same as with EmuTOS, which self is pushed too all time) - so there are things what work 'better' in emulator than it is case with real Ataris. I mentioned it already in programming section - case of non-working new Atari SW from floppy, while it worked via Hatari with GEMDOS disk emulation - it really should not accept slash in path, because TOS accepts only backslash.

Yeah, I say that really good emulator should emulate flaws too, or at least there should be switch, and let user to decide it.

 

Myself did some updates to Steem 3.2, for my needs, ideas. Here is latest one: SteemDV.zip

DV means 'double volume' - I added second audio volume setting in Options/Sound section. So, there is separated control of PSG and DMA audio levels. And reason for it is flaw in STE design - DMA audio level is much lower than PSG level (corrected only by Falcon).

There is added emulation for analog inputs of STE advanced joysticks too, little for floppy image creation, wake up state ...

Just place it in your Steem directory (not SSE) and run.

thanks!  I configured it in this way:

 

and I put all my st/stx image in the C folder in this way:

 

when I run the emulator I have this screen:

I can only open the C HARD DISK and it appears this (stx images aren't detected...is Atari STX supported?):

 

if i double-click on a game, it appears another windows like this:

 

but I can't play...

and at this point I can move the cursor of my mouse ONLY in the internal window of the emulator. If I want to close it, I have to push CTRL+ALT+CAN and close  the emulator...

 

It isn't clear how it works

 

Do Steem, Hatari and SainT support .stx image too?

Edited October 22, 2020 by legolas119

[bfollowell]

st and stx files are floppy disk images. You can't run them from a hard disk image or hard disk folder. You need to move them up to the big A or B file box images to emulate those disks being installed in A or B disk drive, just like if you were using a real Atari ST. Now, some games may run from a hard drive, but you'd need to move the files from the disk image to the hard disk folder, just like you'd need to move the individual files from a diskette to a real hard drive if you were trying to do the same thing with a real Atari ST.

 

What is your actual experience with a real Atari ST? Or is using an Atari ST emulator the only experience you've had so far? I'm just trying to determine your general level of experience with the ST line.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by bfollowell