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Rf to rca or composite adapter


maxdrive

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I saw that you can buy converter boxs to hook up newer technology to older TV. I was wondering if anyone ever made the opposite A connector that plugs the rf into a box so it.can run on a new TV. I know you can buy mods but I'm not used to doing that and I'd be afraid I would screw somthing up. So was wondering if somthing exists so full on modding would not be nessacary.

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If you want to go from an RF signal (Coax or Phono) to "RCA plug" composite video, plus audio, then you would want an "RF Demodulator."  Something like this:

 

HERE

 

I can't speak to the quality of this particular unit...but this is basically what you're looking for.  It won't improve the video quality like a true Video Mod to the console would, but if somehow your television doesn't have an RF antenna input, then you would need something like this.  I've had a similar unit, like one of of these units from 20 years ago, before I ever did any console modding myself, and I don't remember having any problems with it...at the time.  

 

If I'm not mistaken all TVs by definition (of being a TV vs. a monitor) has to have a built in tuner and an RF connection...so unless you're using a monitor, you should already have an RF input, and may simply need a female phono to coax adapter.  

Edited by doubledown
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For years people have been using VCRs to do the same thing as they'd have demodulators built in to allow recording from TV broadcasts so it should be simple enough to pick one up cheap at a charity shop or similar. I've never tried it myself so I don't know what the results are like.

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TLDR; get an old VCR.

 

It doesn't have to play tapes at all. The "analog tuner" inside the VCR will handle converting the RF signal from your 7800 to composite video. The tuners in most modern VCRs were pretty good and you'll get decent composite output.

 

If you want better quality, you need some kind of mod. Don't bother with trying to find a "better converter" to magically make RF look good.

 

Don't bother getting a VCR with "svideo" out, because your display will probably handle converting the composite video better than the ancient technology in an old VCR. Don't get a DVD recorder, because those have processing delay and your inputs won't register fast enough.  Don't buy an expensive model of VCR. Everyone used the tuners in their VCRs and all the big brands shipped a reasonably good tuner in their inexpensive VCRs. Get a Sony or something.

 

If you're hooking the composite output to a modern television and it won't accept the signal, you may consider adding a Koryuu. VGP sells those and they work quite well.

Edited by orange808
touch keyboards stink
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Never seen a modern HDTV before that wouldn't take coax.

4 hours ago, orange808 said:

Don't bother getting a VCR with "svideo" out, because your display will probably handle converting the composite video better than the ancient technology in an old VCR.

HDTVs prettymuch dropped support for s-video, anyway.

 

I'm surprised a lot of them still take composite. I've got all these pre-HDMI consoles that output lovely component video, but these fancy newer TVs force me to downgrade the picture.

I know it's for anti-piracy reasons (yeah, right), but it's still incredibly stupid.

 

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33 minutes ago, Asaki said:

Never seen a modern HDTV before that wouldn't take coax.

HDTVs prettymuch dropped support for s-video, anyway.

 

I'm surprised a lot of them still take composite. I've got all these pre-HDMI consoles that output lovely component video, but these fancy newer TVs force me to downgrade the picture.

I know it's for anti-piracy reasons (yeah, right), but it's still incredibly stupid.

 

I have a 2015 samsung 4k with shared component / composite.

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1 hour ago, 0078265317 said:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/shop/component-input-tv

 

These all have component too.

Yeah, notice how it's only 15 TVs? ;) I have two HDTVs that support component, and two that do not. It's becoming a rare feature. We're kind of stuck with HDMI and its DRM.

Hollywood voted to kill off component, because "pirates can use it to copy BluRays via analogue passthrough". Yeah...right. Why would they bother when they can just crack BluRay's protection and rip them digitally?? Idiots.

I don't know how true it is, but I've also heard rumors that certain platforms will use software to limit or downgrade the picture resolution when using component output.

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1 minute ago, Asaki said:

Yeah, notice how it's only 15 TVs? ;) I have two HDTVs that support component, and two that do not. It's becoming a rare feature. We're kind of stuck with HDMI and its DRM.

Hollywood voted to kill off component, because "pirates can use it to copy BluRays via analogue passthrough". Yeah...right. Why would they bother when they can just crack BluRay's protection and rip them digitally?? Idiots.

I don't know how true it is, but I've also heard rumors that certain platforms will use software to limit or downgrade the picture resolution when using component output.

When then time to get a spare tv with component incase they stop for good.

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I have a bunch of spare VGA monitors and tried a couple of different RF->VGA adapters on ebay for my c64.  None worked because they expect the 'new' digital RF signal.  I picked an older flat screen TV with Rf input last week hoping that would work, but alas, digital Rf only.  I'm still on the hunt for a smallish (13" or so) crt.  I've seen a few giveaways for 30"+ ones but nothing that fits the space I want to use.

 

thanks for the tip about the VCR - that might solve my problem!  I find a lot of non-working VCRs (and CD players) still.  I guess I should have kept my last VCR that broke about 5 years ago.

Edited by BydoEmpire
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6 hours ago, Asaki said:

Yeah, notice how it's only 15 TVs? ;) I have two HDTVs that support component, and two that do not. It's becoming a rare feature. We're kind of stuck with HDMI and its DRM.

Hollywood voted to kill off component, because "pirates can use it to copy BluRays via analogue passthrough". Yeah...right. Why would they bother when they can just crack BluRay's protection and rip them digitally?? Idiots.

I don't know how true it is, but I've also heard rumors that certain platforms will use software to limit or downgrade the picture resolution when using component output.

What I dislike about my TVs is they share the composite and component inputs. Wouldn’t have thought that possible, but not an expert. Anyhow, can’t use the component and the composite unless you want to go behind the tv every time. Maybe there is a switch box for this. :ponder:

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41 minutes ago, orange808 said:

No worries. You can safely buy a new display based solely on the quality of the display itself. No need to worry about the ports. There are plenty of external options to get analog into the digital domain and onto an HDMI plug.

Yeah, if you like having a 1.x second lag (or more) on your video games.  If you don't then there are actually very few options.

 

AND - As others have stated, just because there is a coax input for RF doesn't mean it is analog RF.  Analog RF is now even rarer to find on a new TV than Composite.  Its no wonder since there are no more analog TV broadcasts at all (in the USA).  At least I think we stopped that, right guys?

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3 hours ago, wongojack said:

Its no wonder since there are no more analog TV broadcasts at all (in the USA).  At least I think we stopped that, right guys?

Yeah, and digital RF sucks. When there isn't a great signal, you get nothing or it cuts out entirely for a second or two... particularly in bad weather. At least with analog, you could just have a range of reception clarity and keep watching most of the time.  When I first got my digital converter box years ago, right at the conversion to digital, it didn't work well at all. I got basically nothing.  I gave up on over-the-air TV after a week or two of poking.  I did plug it back in recently and was pleasantly surprised that I get MeTV pretty clearly, and was able to watch a bit of football on TV for the first time in a long time.  Maybe they've improved over the years.  I don't watch tons of TV, so my minimal needs are met (except when I can't get Svengoolie because of a storm and the signal craps out intermittently).

Edited by BydoEmpire
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Well, that turned sour fast.  :) Okay. Let's talk turkey!

 

There's plenty of options from multiple sources that can sample analog video (optionally convert color space) and put it on an HDMI plug with less than a frame of latency.  The easiest options are a RetroTink or the OSSC. 

 

Furthermore, if you're concerned about lag, what in the world gave you the idea that the video processing in your television would convert analog video quickly? Why would it do that? Samsung, LG, and Sony don't care about your Atari.

 

Most televisions have painfully slow and awful OEM video scaling. It gets even slower because many televisions will assume everything is broadcast NTSC or PAL and apply deinterlacing to the progressive Atari 7800 output--wasting even more time and damaging the signal in the process!

 

Plugging directly into your television with any analog signal is lazy and asking for trouble. So, your output is a function of your effort.

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I don't stop in here all the time, but this is a subject I've spent a lot of time/money on over the years and have tried many solutions. The OSSC and RetroTink 2X series do an admirable job given the inputs they have assuming you have input which they can work with. I have two of the original RetroTink 2X units and a Pro unit, both the OSSC and RetroTink work on a per-scanline basis rather than a frame/field so the lag is effectively null in terms of gaming. Your eyes aren't that fast, if they were you wouldn't have been able to enjoy watching a CRT. They're probably faster than the scaler built in your television up to 1080p, although the OSSC may not work well with your television or a video capture card for streaming.  It keeps the horizontal resolution the same while increasing the vertical resolution between 2x and 5x, not all televisions accept some (or any) of its modes.

My previous "modern" Atari 7800 setup was one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JV6OJ4Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It outputs RGB/VGA, which went through the OSSC at first to get to HDMI and later a GBS-Control modded GBS-8220 and an Extron RGB-HDMI 300A. Both are solid solutions, although the latter supports more televisions and gives you a lot more options to change screen geometry/scaling. The Extron can be had for fairly cheap on eBay. I happen to like the simulated scanlines from the GBS-Control mod better than those from the OSSC regardless of how the OSSC was set up. I still use it with all consoles from which I can get component output, either natively or with HD Retrovision cables.

I eventually modded both of my 7800 systems with the UAV board. At first I used a RetroTink 2X to take the UAV mod's S-Video and output that directly into the HDMI port of my television. It worked, aside from the funky colors that the Atari 7800 produces on modern displays. Tweaking the television's color settings can be a bit of a pain, but it's otherwise a good solution which doesn't cost too much.

I've since replaced the entire stack (for both the modded Atari 7800 and my AV modded Famicom) with a Framemeister XRGB-Mini. It's expensive and end of life, albeit still available at the moment. It has around 1 frame of lag, which is more than the OSSC or RetroTink 2X, but it lets you change the color rendering of the video so the colors look correct in games like Commando on a modern television without playing with the television's settings. The modified settings look fine with the Famicom too. I don't think my reflexes are good enough anymore to notice a single frame of lag, and it just looks so much more like I remember. The XRGB's simulated scanline feature isn't too bad either.

Edited by nyandeyanen
Clarification of the second sentence.
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/22/2020 at 4:56 PM, doubledown said:

If you want to go from an RF signal (Coax or Phono) to "RCA plug" composite video, plus audio, then you would want an "RF Demodulator."  Something like this:

 

HERE

Thanks @doubledown, this is exactly what I was looking for.  I bought one and it works perfectly!  I can now run my 2600, 7800, 8 bits, NES, etc. without buying and installing composite mod kits.  Composite mods do provide a better picture in most cases, but then you have to mod the board and or shell to accept them.  That is a lot of work, money and modification for, in my opinion, a small benefit.

 

I will be investing in a Retrotink 2x soon as my current solution is a J-Tech digital switch and it overscans my screen with some consoles.  I am currently running this demodulator through the J-Tech https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-JTD-0801-Multi-Functional-Converter/dp/B008VWGLXO/ref=sr_1_4?crid=4BD3SR1I59IZ&dchild=1&keywords=j-tech+digital+video+switcher&qid=1604260199&sprefix=J-Tech+digital+sw%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-4, a Sony receiver and then to my Samsung plasma.  All this with no perceptible delay.

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I recently wrote up a couple of blog entries on improving RF on a 2600. While I didn't include pics from my 7800, I did include one in my testing, and the same principles work with it:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/blogs/entry/16992-fix-your-rf/

https://atariage.com/forums/blogs/entry/17013-rf-addendum/

 

As already mentioned, getting a good RF demodulator is important. I use a Sony TM-1041U, which you can usually find on eBay pretty cheap. I haven't tried the one doubledown suggested, so it's good to hear there are still off-the-shelf options out there.

 

Equally important though is the RF cable itself. The original Atari one is an interference magnet. Buy one with better shielding, and route it away from the 7800's AC adapter (and other potential sources of interference). I ordered a custom RF cable made with Belden 1505A from Blue Jeans Cable. Yeah... they're pricey. But the difference in picture quality is impressive. Plus, you can order a cable as short as you need, further reducing interference. And if you want to buy one in purple or some other color, they've got you covered.

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You MIGHT want to try this instead, it'll allow analog channel 3 to work on an HDMI jack.

 

It's also readily available on eBay, Alibaba  and also available domestically here:

 

https://www.hdtvsupply.com/rf-coax-to-hdmi-adapter.html

 

But, you'll also need this to go with it, it will adapt its onboard UK/European/Australian-style IEC/PAL antenna input and make your Atari work with it. It too, is available domestically here:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-PAL-IEC-Male-to-RCA-Female-Connector-USA-Seller/231190947531?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Note that Hirudov (the YT poster) is located in Europe so he has a default PAL/IEC connector on his TV

 

I own one it has all the complete controls that an older TV has (color/tint/brightness/contrast) on it and will allow you to adjust the picture quality to your liking and it works with all PAL/NTSC/SECAM TVs, the options are all onboard as well. You'll also have the default Chinese to put up with but if you watch the video you'll learn how to turn that into English rather easily, as I did. Highly recommended!!!

 

 

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On 10/24/2020 at 4:07 AM, nyandeyanen said:

OSSC [...] GBS-Control modded GBS-8220 [...] Extron RGB-HDMI 300A [...] RetroTink 2X [...] Framemeister XRGB-Mini

I can't justify the Framemeister, for that money I'd rather get a bunch of other gear.

 

Between the other options, which would you recommend? Is the RetroTink 2X the best of the bunch outside of needing to tweak TV colors with a 7800? Do any of them show a proper 4:3 picture?

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6 hours ago, MrZarniwoop said:

I can't justify the Framemeister, for that money I'd rather get a bunch of other gear.

 

Between the other options, which would you recommend? Is the RetroTink 2X the best of the bunch outside of needing to tweak TV colors with a 7800? Do any of them show a proper 4:3 picture?

You can definitely get a 4:3 picture out of the RetroTink 2X, though your television may have functions which arbitrarily stretch 4:3 input so that may need to be turned off. In my experience it generally looks reasonably good. There are a few output options (at least on the regular model) including a blur function, and color burst can be killed if desired to display in monochrome by abusing the input select function. Again, I'm not sure if that works on the mini. The oranges can be tweaked back to the greens they're supposed to be in Commando using the television's color correction features assuming that isn't too troublesome. You might want to go for the 2X mini, it's slightly less expensive at the loss of the component ports but it also has a case which doesn't expose the boards at all:

https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/2x-mini

The other main issue out of the box for the 7800 of course is that none of the RetroTink 2X series take RF directly, so you'd need to purchase a separate RF tuner like the one I linked to previously; unless you mod the 7800 as I did. The tuner isn't perfect, interlacing in particular wasn't handled as well as I'd like in games like Galagon, but I was able to use it with an HDMI streaming device until I finally installed the UAV. FWIW, the UAV is a much better solution than the composite mods on ebay. I removed one I'd installed in my first 7800 after installing a UAV in the other. That involved finding some parts that I'd tossed, so I'd recommend skipping the cheap mods and going UAV first. It may cost a bit more up front, but the output is far cleaner on both component and S-Video and the colors are brighter in my experience. The S-Video output pairs perfectly with the RetroTink 2X as well. You do need to wire the audio yourself separately, but that's not hard.

If for some reason you're unhappy with the display geometry, finding a way to squeeze it through the Extron RGB-HDMI 300A allows you to modify the size of the X and Y axis arbitrarily. It only takes VGA/RGB as input though. I used a "lagless" HDMI to VGA converter recommended by the OSSC project with the RetroTink 2X's HDMI output to make it work, as at that point you could be inserting lag with the wrong part.

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