Popeye 7800

[tep392]

1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

Thanks. I'll check these things out. Good catch on the step pixels & Brutus's forearm. I can probably scale back the dirt too.

 

I can't add dark brown to the dirt above, because it doesn't have that color available. I think I tried cross-hatch, and it looked hokey. I will play around with that. I don't think I have a spare tile to add, if I'd move the brown bottom to the pillar below. That might make the pillar too low. I'll play with that.

 

I'll see what all I can knock out. That Popeye mural/banner will be be a pain. I don't know why I missed the little change in Popeye's nose. While I am at it, I could thin him out. I will basically be redrawing him, since scaling botches him. Might be worth it in the end.

 

I'll have to recheck the colors on flesh and ship background. I thought the color on my TV matched the arcade monitor

 

It's been a while since I compared.

 

 

 

 

Darryl,  Just a note on Popeye/banner, Marco takes care of the scaling.  The mockups Marco shows are scaled as they would appear on the display, but he will give you a "square pixel" skinny version that you use directly to generate the font.  It will be properly proportioned when displayed with the actual rectangular pixels.

[+Defender_2600]

24 minutes ago, tep392 said:

Darryl,  Just a note on Popeye/banner, Marco takes care of the scaling.  The mockups Marco shows are scaled as they would appear on the display, but he will give you a "square pixel" skinny version that you use directly to generate the font.  It will be properly proportioned when displayed with the actual rectangular pixels.

 

Thanks Perry, I just wanted to add that I love your new avatar!

[+Defender_2600]

Hey Darryl, as Perry already mentioned, here you can see how the final result will look compared to the arcade version. Obviously the result will look even better filtered by a real TV. Below is the new 7800 square pixel graphic that you can import into your graphic editor. Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Defender_2600

[Gray Defender]

I am a little late to this party, but I have to say I am really impressed with your work @darryl1970!

 

All your hard work is appreciated.  Looking forward to the full release!  

[+darryl1970]

1 minute ago, Gray Defender said:

I am a little late to this party, but I have to say I am really impressed with your work @darryl1970!

 

All your hard work is appreciated.  Looking forward to the full release!  

Thank you. Much appreciated!

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

ZeroPage Homebrew will be playing an EXCLUSIVE WIP UPDATE to POPEYE 7800 on tomorrow's (Tue Feb 16, 2021) stream LIVE on Twitch at 6PM PT | 9PM ET | 2AM GMT! Hope everyone can watch!

 

ZPH Twitch Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/zeropagehomebrew/

 

Games:

• Popeye 7800 (2021 Exclusive WIP Update | 7800) by Darryl Guenther @darryl1970 (Programming and Graphics) / Bobby Clark @Synthpopalooza, Matt Smith @mksmith, Pat Brady @Pat Brady, Trebor @Trebor (Music) / Mike Saarna @RevEng, Matt Smith @mksmith, Paul Lay @playsoft, Perry Thuente @tep392 (Programming Consultants) / Atariboy2600 @Atariboy2600 (Package Artwork)
• Galaxian (2021 WIP | 7800) by Bob DeCrescenzo @PacManPlus / Bobby Clark @Synthpopalooza (Sound Design)
• Wizard's Dungeon (2021 WIP | 7800) by Vince Dickinson @BydoEmpire

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by ZeroPage Homebrew

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

  YouTube archive of stream, can't edit above post.

 

(SET VIDEO TO 1080P60 FOR FULL QUALITY)

 

[tep392]

The new title screen graphic looks great!

[+Defender_2600]

Wow Darryl, I just saw James's video, great work. Thanks so much. It's amazing to have this excellent port on the 7800. Thanks also for have added my nickname to the credits screen, much appreciated.

 

P.S. A quick tip, in the third level, a darker yellow (gold $15) color for ship would be closer to the arcade version. And also invert the colors of the score, using white for the numbers and light blue for 1up / 2up as in the arcade version. Thank you.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Defender_2600

[+Defender_2600]

And just to add that for the blue color of the pipe and the star in the title screen and in Popeye sprites, I would suggest the $83 value as in the video I am seeing a green hue which is typical of NTSC $9x values under real hardware, especially in longer (10+ minutes or more) sessions. Thanks again.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Defender_2600

[+darryl1970]

11 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

Wow Darryl, I just saw James's video, great work. Thanks so much. It's amazing to have this excellent port on the 7800. Thanks also for have added my nickname to the credits screen, much appreciated.

Thank you. No problem. Thanks for the suggestions.

11 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

P.S. A quick tip, in the third level, a darker yellow (gold $15) color for ship would be closer to the arcade version.

Marcos, I tried the $15, but it was really dark. I see what you mean about the floors being a little too bright though. I think the problem is that the floors, steps, and letters share a pallet in this version.  I tried to find a happy balance between all 3 items.  I toned the color down from $1D to $1B. I think this is a decent average for all three items, since they share the same pallet. It brings a little gold into the color, and the letters still pop out. I hope you like it.

11 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

And also invert the colors of the score, using white for the numbers and light blue for 1up / 2up as in the arcade version. Thank you.

This is a problem. I tried to work these through before, and it's really more complicated than it should be. It's probably due to my early lack of planning with the pallets. There are a couple of issues I run into when I try to change the colors. I DID try it again, but I ended up running into the same issues.

 

Furthermore, I would not be able to do it on all of the levels. This way, they are mostly consistent, except for level 2. The moon and static notes are actually part of the number-letter font. I found that plotting the same characterset across the top prevented sprites from disappearing. That is one of the reasons Level 2 has weird font colors.  It actually keeps the upper zone from being overloaded.

 

Another issue with the ship is that I can't really make the top row black, like the arcade. An actual red high score would be a blur on a CRT with RF. That's why I made the "TOP" red. People know what the three letters are, so I don't mind leaving that red. A white high score would look nice, leaving "Top" as red. However, that can no longer be red when I switch pallets around. It's a chain reaction of headache. If I use too may different pallets, Sweet Pea & the vulture start to cancel out sprites.

10 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

And just to add that for the blue color of the pipe and the star in the title screen and in Popeye sprites, I would suggest the $83 value as in the video I am seeing a green hue which is typical of NTSC $9x values under real hardware, especially in longer (10+ minutes or more) sessions. Thanks again.

I was in the $9x range. I swapped all of Popeye's blue to the $8x range, and I do prefer it . Thank you.

 

 

[+Defender_2600]

4 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Marcos, I tried the $15, but it was really dark. I see what you mean about the floors being a little too bright though. I think the problem is that the floors, steps, and letters share a pallet in this version.  I tried to find a happy balance between all 3 items.  I toned the color down from $1D to $1B. I think this is a decent average for all three items, since they share the same pallet. It brings a little gold into the color, and the letters still pop out. I hope you like it.

 

Thanks Darryl for your attention and explanations. No worries about colors, they were just suggestions. About $15 I didn't think it was shared with the letters, I just looked at the colors of the arcade version (which in fact are quite dark). Among other things, in order to work well, in addition to the yellow color, the color of the sky and the ship should also be updated but we would still have the dark letters. So feel free with this, you've still got a good result.

 

 

 

 

 

I generally choose a saturated palette to better enhance the red / orange colors that are natively dark in the 7800 palette, however the final result will always be influenced by the brightness/saturation/contrast setting of your TV. For example, the colors of the second level appear clear under emulation with A7800 because I am using a saturated palette, however looking at the photos of your CRT TV the colors appear correct with your current setting (excluding the red and orange appearing dark).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, since I was looking at the second level, I still have one last idea about the layout I would like to show you. Since you have already reduced the width of the stairways, perhaps you could consider reducing the width of the building above (upper right area) in order to obtain the proportions of the arcade version (it is very wide currently). I show you an example where I reduced the width by two tiles and the result looks very accurate. Among other details, you could also insert the blue tiles in the empty space adjacent to the lower stairway (right side) and reduce by one tile the gray platform that I have highlighted in the image below (lower left side). Thanks again for everything, Darryl.

 

 

 

 

 

[+darryl1970]

3 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

Thanks Darryl for your attention and explanations. No worries about colors, they were just suggestions. About $15 I didn't think it was shared with the letters, I just looked at the colors of the arcade version (which in fact are quite dark). Among other things, in order to work well, in addition to the yellow color, the color of the sky and the ship should also be updated but we would still have the dark letters. So feel free with this, you've still got a good result.

 

 

 

 

 

I generally choose a saturated palette to better enhance the red / orange colors that are natively dark in the 7800 palette, however the final result will always be influenced by the brightness/saturation/contrast setting of your TV. For example, the colors of the second level appear clear under emulation with A7800 because I am using a saturated palette, however looking at the photos of your CRT TV the colors appear correct with your current setting (excluding the red and orange appearing dark).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, since I was looking at the second level, I still have one last idea about the layout I would like to show you. Since you have already reduced the width of the stairways, perhaps you could consider reducing the width of the building above (upper right area) in order to obtain the proportions of the arcade version (it is very wide currently). I show you an example where I reduced the width by two tiles and the result looks very accurate. Among other details, you could also insert the blue tiles in the empty space adjacent to the lower stairway (right side) and reduce by one tile the gray platform that I have highlighted in the image below (lower left side). Thanks again for everything, Darryl.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice catch on the upper house thing.

 

That floor by the seesaw bothered me too. I noticed that one, but I was afraid it would affect gameplay. I didn't want to have to recalculate Popeye and Brutus's jumping off points, because I've done a LOT of work around there, to make sure glitchy things don't happen. I don't know if you noticed, but Brutus will wait for Popeye to clear the seesaw, just like the arcade.

 

I tried it anyway, and I think it seems solid. It will need some testing. I am it over a few minutes before I cut 3.0.

 

EDIT: The building looks better thinner. Adjusting the floor by the seesaw has opened up a bunch of glitchy behaviors. I am going to sleep on it and see if I can get it right again, because it's my bed time.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by darryl1970

[+Defender_2600]

6 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

EDIT: The building looks better thinner. Adjusting the floor by the seesaw has opened up a bunch of glitchy behaviors.

Sorry, don't worry if it gets complicated to fix, I think it's less noticeable than the empty space adjacent to the lower stairway (right side). I also just noticed a ship detail that shouldn't be hard to update, it lacks some empty space on the right hand side. Thank you.

 

 

[+darryl1970]

13 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

Sorry, don't worry if it gets complicated to fix, I think it's less noticeable than the empty space adjacent to the lower stairway (right side). I also just noticed a ship detail that shouldn't be hard to update, it lacks some empty space on the right hand side. Thank you.

 

 

New version is posted. I don't know why I didn't realize that was just a tile shift to fix. I was so fixated on being out of tiles.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Plays great, and the graphics enhancements work extremely well.  It's shaping up very nicely

 

Did catch one thing, though: on the high-score entry table, only the left button is recognised for character entry.  It feels a little odd for that to be the case after having had both buttons work in the game.  This was with a CX78 that was rebuilt about 3 months ago, FWIW.

[+darryl1970]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Plays great, and the graphics enhancements work extremely well.  It's shaping up very nicely

Thank you.

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Did catch one thing, though: on the high-score entry table, only the left button is recognised for character entry.  It feels a little odd for that to be the case after having had both buttons work in the game.  This was with a CX78 that was rebuilt about 3 months ago, FWIW.

The High Score save functionality is mostly a built-in feature of 7800 BASIC, so I do not have control over that.

[+Defender_2600]

I don't know if it has already been mentioned, is the game compatible with the CX40 single button joystick?

[+sramirez2008]

20 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

I don't know if it has already been mentioned, is the game compatible with the CX40 single button joystick?

I just played it with my CX-40?

[+Defender_2600]

Hey Darryl, in case you do another release candidate, I took a further look at the graphics of the platforms that support Popeye's and Olive's houses, since I was not convinced of the result in low resolution of the ends. I redesigned the 8 available tiles so that the two platforms have a higher resolution like the arcade version, you can see the good result in the image below. Thanks again for your attention.

 

 

 

[+darryl1970]

6 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

Hey Darryl, in case you do another release candidate, I took a further look at the graphics of the platforms that support Popeye's and Olive's houses, since I was not convinced of the result in low resolution of the ends. I redesigned the 8 available tiles so that the two platforms have a higher resolution like the arcade version, you can see the good result in the image below. Thanks again for your attention.

 

 

 

I actually toyed with this idea when I was working on it. I wasn't sure to err on the side of low-res or add extra "steps" to compensate. The arcade is kind of low res, so I went back to the correct step numbers. I might revisit it. In doing so, I could shift the left pole right one, like the arcade.

 

It kind of bothers me that the thick pillar doesn't line up with the end of the floor. I do not want to alter the end of the floor, because that would alter a other game logic. (Punching bag, Popeye's starting point, demo play, etc) The worst of those is the demo play. Any time I've had to alter that, it's like half a day gone. It sounds simple, but to get one that will occasionally allow the hearts to sink is tough. The randomness of the game makes it tough to get. Also, just because I get it "right" in emulation, doesn't mean it will carry over to the hardware. I've lost a lot of days by changing that.

 

--Darryl

[+Defender_2600]

58 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

I actually toyed with this idea when I was working on it. I wasn't sure to err on the side of low-res or add extra "steps" to compensate. The arcade is kind of low res, so I went back to the correct step numbers. I might revisit it. In doing so, I could shift the left pole right one, like the arcade.

 

It kind of bothers me that the thick pillar doesn't line up with the end of the floor. I do not want to alter the end of the floor, because that would alter a other game logic. (Punching bag, Popeye's starting point, demo play, etc) The worst of those is the demo play. Any time I've had to alter that, it's like half a day gone. It sounds simple, but to get one that will occasionally allow the hearts to sink is tough. The randomness of the game makes it tough to get. Also, just because I get it "right" in emulation, doesn't mean it will carry over to the hardware. I've lost a lot of days by changing that.

 

--Darryl

 

I understand what you are saying, actually yesterday I had prepared another mock-up but then I did not share it as it would require some work. The idea was to move Popeye's house one tile to the right and reduce the width of both platforms by one tile (in the rear area), the resulting proportions look very good.

 

 

 

[+darryl1970]

It wasn't too bad to move the house, because I have the draw routines programmed with an adjustable offset. Moving the flower would be a pain that I do not want to endure, but I might look into it when I get home from where I have to be. There are two level 1 maps. I cannot draw the hearts on the map that is used during the game. If I do, the hearts will not display properly. That means I have to be careful to adjust the flower in multiple places, for multiple scenarios. It's included in the game play map, but it's added for the intro and level clear scenes.

 

I do like the sides trimmed though. Good catch. I can live with more vertical "steps" in the ground. It's a necessary evil, in order to draw the brown line above the post.

 

[+Defender_2600]

Looks good. In the area above the pillar below Olive's house, please consider reducing the width of one tile as it seems disproportionate compared with the arcade version:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just another detail in the level of the ship, I was wondering if the floor in the lower left corner needs to be very wide. Thanks again, Darryl.

 

 

[+darryl1970]

57 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

Looks good. In the area above the pillar below Olive's house, please consider reducing the width of one tile as it seems disproportionate compared with the arcade version:

I took care of it. I also caught I filled the empty space with the wrong characterset. I caught a screen shot to show what happens. This is how finicky it can be. I am glad I caught it!

This is why simple changes keep me stuck here.

57 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

Just another detail in the level of the ship, I was wondering if the floor in the lower left corner needs to be very wide. Thanks again, Darryl.

No reason. I removed two tiles, and the Sea Hag's feet were sticking off. I reduced it by one tile. It's a little better, and the Sea Hag fits perfectly.