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1 hour ago, sramirez2008 said:

I can't wait to see the CIB in the Store.

 

Yes you can and you will! :P

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4 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

Yes you can and you will! :P

Okay...I guess I can 😊

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1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

Yes you can and you will! :P

 

1 hour ago, sramirez2008 said:

Okay...I guess I can 😊

I am actually getting to the point where I can't wait. I took two extra days off this weekend, and Popeye consumed about 1 days worth, in addition to some weekend time. There are other things I'd like to experiment with, but I do want this to be as smooth as possible.

image.png

20210215_185653.jpg

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Darryl, I hate going back to this but, watching your latest video, I saw you could make an easy change that would make a big difference. My attention is again on those two platforms that support Popeye and Olive's houses, simply because looking at your video (latest update 3.3) I noticed that it is very evident that the platform under Popeye's house is much wider than the platform under Olive's house, instead in the arcade version the two platforms have about the same width.

 

Just a premise, this change requires only a repositioning of the tiles already available and _no tile_ must be redrawn with the only exception for the _pillar tile_ in which I moved the black line from right to left, in fact modifying the asymmetry of the pillar we get a more correct position on the gray floor and closer to the arcade version.

 

 

553881471_updatedpillartile.PNG.ff679caf033efa5b572938e47bf86a50.PNG

 

 

 

So considering that, in the latest update 3.3, the platform under Popeye's house is 12 tiles wide and the platform under Olive's house is only 10 tiles wide, instead in the arcade version both platforms are the same width of 9 tiles (to be precise, 8.5 for the Olive house but we really need to ignore the half tiles), the goal in the 7800 version is to use 11 tiles for both platforms in order to make the proportions more balanced and close to the arcade version. Here are some comparative images:

 

 

854835194_proportionsoftilesvs.thumb.PNG.ffdc96f403730ca822f90ee5429a8846.PNG

 

 

 

1639774872_proportionsoftilesvs2.thumb.PNG.d2333162eca487419b1c5cecc622e5e6.PNG

 

 

 

To obtain these changes, just slide 5 tiles of a column to the left under Olive's house and slide 8 tiles of a column to the left under Popeye's house (I say 8 tiles because I am also including the _ grass tiles_ in order to preserve the existing symmetry of 3 green tiles + 3 green tiles). Note that Popeye's house and Olive's house retain their current location, the change only affects the platforms below. In this image and in the GIF, you can clearly see which tiles are involved in the slide / change:

 

 

GIF15.thumb.PNG.649226b0df58019e3005155beb26f227.PNG

 

 

 

Webp.net-gifmaker(3).thumb.gif.6747b85baffb7733bdfecb8e8f97e16b.gif

 

 

 

With this change we also get two further benefits, the two pillar tiles will finally be correctly placed / aligned in their vertical axis under the two houses. In fact, in the current 7800 version, the left platform pillar is not aligned correctly under Popeye's house but protrudes outward to the right. And the right platform pillar should be aligned with the outside of Olive's house instead currently and shifted to the right by one column. This change corrects the positions of both pillars by aligning them perfectly under the houses as in the arcade version.

 

 

938819634_proportionsoftilesvs3.thumb.PNG.472648fbc6e2a0cc533aa50798435c3c.PNG

 

 

 

The second benefit we get it with the inner ends of both platforms. in the current 7800 version, the inner end of the left platform protrudes too much from the gray floor below, while the inner end of the right platform does not protrude at all. With this change we get that the inner ends of both platforms protrude equally as happens in the arcade version.

 

Well, it seems this change is more complicated to describe than implement but I thought it was worth sharing. Thanks again, Darryl.

 

 

 

297785721_proportionsoftilesvs4.thumb.PNG.44f1ce9c28d0eebb31c28af94b7f8fc1.PNG

 

 

 

892850506_Popeye7800vsarcade.thumb.PNG.630a2cbd2eaf9bdbbb2e0fead8f07f70.PNG

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

Darryl, I hate going back to this but, watching your latest video, I saw you could make an easy change that would make a big difference. My attention is again on those two platforms that support Popeye and Olive's houses, simply because looking at your video (latest update 3.3) I noticed that it is very evident that the platform under Popeye's house is much wider than the platform under Olive's house, instead in the arcade version the two platforms have about the same width.

 

Just a premise, this change requires only a repositioning of the tiles already available and _no tile_ must be redrawn with the only exception for the _pillar tile_ in which I moved the black line from right to left, in fact modifying the asymmetry of the pillar we get a more correct position on the gray floor and closer to the arcade version.

 

 

553881471_updatedpillartile.PNG.ff679caf033efa5b572938e47bf86a50.PNG

 

 

 

So considering that, in the latest update 3.3, the platform under Popeye's house is 12 tiles wide and the platform under Olive's house is only 10 tiles wide, instead in the arcade version both platforms are the same width of 9 tiles (to be precise, 8.5 for the Olive house but we really need to ignore the half tiles), the goal in the 7800 version is to use 11 tiles for both platforms in order to make the proportions more balanced and close to the arcade version. Here are some comparative images:

 

 

854835194_proportionsoftilesvs.thumb.PNG.ffdc96f403730ca822f90ee5429a8846.PNG

 

 

 

1639774872_proportionsoftilesvs2.thumb.PNG.d2333162eca487419b1c5cecc622e5e6.PNG

 

 

 

To obtain these changes, just slide 5 tiles of a column to the left under Olive's house and slide 8 tiles of a column to the left under Popeye's house (I say 8 tiles because I am also including the _ grass tiles_ in order to preserve the existing symmetry of 3 green tiles + 3 green tiles). Note that Popeye's house and Olive's house retain their current location, the change only affects the platforms below. In this image and in the GIF, you can clearly see which tiles are involved in the slide / change:

 

 

GIF15.thumb.PNG.649226b0df58019e3005155beb26f227.PNG

 

 

 

Webp.net-gifmaker(3).thumb.gif.6747b85baffb7733bdfecb8e8f97e16b.gif

 

 

 

With this change we also get two further benefits, the two pillar tiles will finally be correctly placed / aligned in their vertical axis under the two houses. In fact, in the current 7800 version, the left platform pillar is not aligned correctly under Popeye's house but protrudes outward to the right. And the right platform pillar should be aligned with the outside of Olive's house instead currently and shifted to the right by one column. This change corrects the positions of both pillars by aligning them perfectly under the houses as in the arcade version.

 

 

938819634_proportionsoftilesvs3.thumb.PNG.472648fbc6e2a0cc533aa50798435c3c.PNG

 

 

 

The second benefit we get it with the inner ends of both platforms. in the current 7800 version, the inner end of the left platform protrudes too much from the gray floor below, while the inner end of the right platform does not protrude at all. With this change we get that the inner ends of both platforms protrude equally as happens in the arcade version.

 

Well, it seems this change is more complicated to describe than implement but I thought it was worth sharing. Thanks again, Darryl.

 

 

 

297785721_proportionsoftilesvs4.thumb.PNG.44f1ce9c28d0eebb31c28af94b7f8fc1.PNG

 

 

 

892850506_Popeye7800vsarcade.thumb.PNG.630a2cbd2eaf9bdbbb2e0fead8f07f70.PNG

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I'll revisit this when I have a chance.

 

The one thing I am not sure if you know. The pillar tile is the same on both sides. I am out of room for additional tiles. If I adjust it for one side, won't the other side be off by a pixel?

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1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

Thanks. I'll revisit this when I have a chance.

 

The one thing I am not sure if you know. The pillar tile is the same on both sides. I am out of room for additional tiles. If I adjust it for one side, won't the other side be off by a pixel?

 

Absolutely, I know. In fact, this is precisely the goal, by inverting the black line we obtain greater coherence with the arcade version since both pillars will appear moved by one pixel to the right. This way, the left pillar will be one pixel closer to the end of the gray floor and the right pillar will be one pixel farther from the end of the gray floor. In the arcade version there is this same asymmetry, looking at the position of the pillar on the gray floor. Thanks so much!

Edited by Defender_2600
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36 minutes ago, aaron1677 said:

@darryl1970 What an achievement! Congrats this looks fantastic.

When should we expect this to be available in the store? Take my money! 

I don't know. We're testing to make sure there aren't any hidden issues. I still need to work on a box and manual. Then I need to let Al know that it's done.

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On 2/24/2021 at 8:34 AM, Defender_2600 said:

 

Absolutely, I know. In fact, this is precisely the goal, by inverting the black line we obtain greater coherence with the arcade version since both pillars will appear moved by one pixel to the right. This way, the left pillar will be one pixel closer to the end of the gray floor and the right pillar will be one pixel farther from the end of the gray floor. In the arcade version there is this same asymmetry, looking at the position of the pillar on the gray floor. Thanks so much!

While I can appreciate the level of detail you're going to here to get as close to the Arcade version as possible - This is the kind of "feature creep" or more correctly "detail creep" is the kind of stuff that makes great games get released way later than they should/could have, and frankly frustrates the potential audience. If we're talking genuine functionality changes, like the stairs sizing, etc. then this kind of stuff is extremely helpful. But this hyper specific level of analysis on a single line of pixels is a bit.... overboard?

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1 minute ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

While I can appreciate the level of detail you're going to here to get as close to the Arcade version as possible - This is the kind of "feature creep" or more correctly "detail creep" is the kind of stuff that makes great games get released way later than they should/could have, and frankly frustrates the potential audience. If we're talking genuine functionality changes, like the stairs sizing, etc. then this kind of stuff is extremely helpful. But this hyper specific level of analysis on a single line of pixels is a bit.... overboard?

I agree. I included the visual changes while still trying to test for bugs. These changes did not affect game play or testing, so I included and shared them. There are still some of us testing scenarios, and I have fixed a few bugs, which did alter game play slightly.

 

I wouldn't hold up calling this done for a few pixels. I would love to call this done as is, but we need to verify a few things for stability's sake.

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The pillar update was mentioned as a minor detail of a more significant suggestion, which is to get correct proportions in the dimensions of the platforms that support the Popeye and Olive houses. In my previous message I explained and showed, with detailed images, the benefits we can get by updating the width of those two platforms and the idea seemed to be liked. This is an update that requires a quick and easy repositioning of existing tiles. Within the aforementioned change, reversing the black line of the pillar also takes only a few seconds and is useful. Personally, I don't think that updating the dimensions of the platforms that support Popeye and Olive's houses is an exaggerated suggestion / request, otherwise I would not have shared my thoughts and I would not have devoted my time to them. Still, while a hint is just a hint and as such doesn't bind the programmer in any way, we certainly don't have any printed boxes and manuals yet, so I'd say these simple tweaks aren't responsible for delaying Popeye's release in the store. Finally, over the years, I have known Darryl as a detail-conscious person, which is why I thought the attention to detail was considered welcome and not exaggerated. Thanks anyway.

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I come to this thread every few days to bask in awe to the attention to detail here. Love it. It'll make for a legendary game port!

 

This ship-and-tweak cycle for emulators and SD Card cart users has made for an amazing development cycle and beta test.

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On 2/23/2021 at 4:29 PM, Defender_2600 said:

854835194_proportionsoftilesvs.thumb.PNG.ffdc96f403730ca822f90ee5429a8846.PNG

Since you posted all these screenshots, I noticed that in the arcade version, the stroke of the l in "Olive" doesn't connect to the "O". In the 7800 version it does, which makes it look like it says "Alive".

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1 hour ago, ZylonBane said:

Since you posted all these screenshots, I noticed that in the arcade version, the stroke of the l in "Olive" doesn't connect to the "O". In the 7800 version it does, which makes it look like it says "Alive".

 

Instead you have now made me remember that, around the names of Popeye and Olive, it might be preferable to replace the green color with the black color of the background in order to be closer to the dark blue color of the arcade version. Just a thought.

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4 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

...it might be preferable to replace the green color with the black color of the background in order to be closer to the dark blue color of the arcade version...

Black would just look hollow.  At least the green fills the space with color like the arcade.

 

I hadn't noticed the "O" and "l" being connected before, but now I can't unsee it.  :lol:

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35 minutes ago, KevinMos3 said:

Black would just look hollow.  At least the green fills the space with color like the arcade.

So, for logical coherence, you should also use the color green in the empty space below... :)

 

 

 

201461090_roofsofthehouses..thumb.PNG.5b8978b500939acc20ec2b77465869d6.PNG

 

 

 

Anyway, in case Darryl likes the result, here are some tweaks to the roofs of the houses:

 

759160907_Popeyeroofsofthehouses..thumb.PNG.394eef3cd852f1a699042180c64ef575.PNG

 

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2 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

So, for logical coherence, you should also use the color green in the empty space below... :)

It's not about logical coherence, but artistic compromises.  Sometimes you have to pick and choose where to compromise.  Personally, I think Darryl already made a good artistic choice, but that's just my opinion.  You're much better at picking out fine details in alignments than I am, but in some cases, it can be better to stray just a bit for the overall appearance.  Anyway, we're all friends here and I have a lot of admiration for the work you do.  Sometimes we'll just see it differently and that's ok.  :)

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2 hours ago, KevinMos3 said:

It's not about logical coherence, but artistic compromises.  Sometimes you have to pick and choose where to compromise.  Personally, I think Darryl already made a good artistic choice, but that's just my opinion.  You're much better at picking out fine details in alignments than I am, but in some cases, it can be better to stray just a bit for the overall appearance.  Anyway, we're all friends here and I have a lot of admiration for the work you do.  Sometimes we'll just see it differently and that's ok.  :)

 

While in this case I would really leave aside any "artistic" opinion, since we are only evaluating the combination of two colors, I certainly understand and respect personal tastes. Generally, I prefer to get as close as possible to the arcade versions and in this case I see that dark blue color is close to black and on some displays you may not easily notice the difference between the two colors. Furthermore, the names stand out very well on the black as they do in the arcade version, instead I see that the yellow tends to blend into the green. So I'm just evaluating what seems to me the closest color match, completely refraining from an aesthetic or even "artistic" judgment, very slippery ground. Again, just my point of view and just a suggestion.

 

P.S. Thanks for the compliments but you also know that I have always thought very well of your work. :)

 

P.P.S. Since I have your attention, I renew my invitation to publicly share your Crossbow color update. Although I have not given up on the project to update the graphics and therefore I think I may return to work on it in the future, I am currently involved in many projects so in the meantime I renew my invitation to share it publicly. Thank you!

 

 

 

Edited by Defender_2600

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1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said:

P.P.S. Since I have your attention, I renew my invitation to publicly share your Crossbow color update. Although I have not given up on the project to update the graphics and therefore I think I may return to work on it in the future, I am currently involved in many projects so in the meantime I renew my invitation to share it publicly. Thank you!

Thanks for reminding me.  It's been quite a while since I worked on that.  The reason I never shared it is because I never finished the jungle stage.  I'd like to get back to that at some point, as it's definitely a hack that needs finished, but my plate is very full right now.  If things change, some time might open up for me soon.  If not, I may not have time for much of anything until summer of 2022.

 

edit: So that I don't derail too much from Popeye, if you or anyone would like to discuss any other works, feel free to hit me up in a pm.

Edited by KevinMos3
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I had already started playing around with this last night before bed.

 

I am still trying to decide on Olive's house, because I have to make compromises.

 

I thought it would look good to make the vertical pixels all two-pixels high. In doing so, I made all of the tile objects two pixels high. I forgot that the yellow top line was part of the upper 16-pixel tile.

I was going to add the top yellow below, but I forgot that the number of Popeye's lives remaining would overwrite that, as does Popeye's head. If I change that to a "baked-in" sprite, I get issues with sprite overload on the top area.

 

The shadow under the roof is 1-pixel under Popeye's house. I can't change that, so I did the same with Olive's house.

 

Once I finished everything, I realized that I can't include the top yellow line to Olive's house. I was already late to bed, so I left it for this morning.

This is what I have at this point. I am still trying to decide what I want to do.

I tried it with and without the top of the walls turning in. I kind of like the extra couple pixels, to "bracket" it in. IDK.

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.66d5461ebf05360c8f4dd6ebde12ac3d.png

Edited by darryl1970
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For contrast, I just moved the yellow line higher, so that I can include it in the house.

 

I think I'll add some of the green tiles under Popeye's name, like @Defender_2600 . I was afraid they'd look odd, since the rest are 2-pixel high, but I think it looks good. I left them on Olive's house when I adjusted too.

 

Update: I reverted the top and bottom of the box to 1-pixel high again. I tried 1-pixel width walls too, to match Popeye's house. It didn't look right. I ended up widening Olive's house, so it has the same number of steps on the roof. I kind of like this:

image.thumb.png.6c187c04a76c1440a5bbff8df33c29e3.png

 

Edited by darryl1970
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I have repeatedly appreciated the incredible work of Darryl.

 

I would like to thank Defender_2600 for his graphics inputs.

I like his comparison images and his attention to details.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Philsan said:

I have repeatedly appreciated the incredible work of Darryl.

 

I would like to thank Defender_2600 for his graphics inputs.

I like his comparison images and his attention to details.

 

 

Speaking of detail. I just realized that Popeye's name is off-center now. Going to fix that.....
Arghh. It's off-center on the arcade.  I might leave well-enough alone.

Edited by darryl1970
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