Last Squadron ABBUC software contest 2020

[biobern]

To say it again: This is an INCREDIBLE game I just tried. With this engine shanty nearly could write a port of Starforce (Arcade 1984)

 

[biobern]

And to make it clear for all the newbies like myself: Yes, this game works with unmodified Sega Genesis/Megadrive 3-button controllers AND Sega 3-button Arcade Power Stick controllers. Button B ist fire, Button C starts the extra weapon for a short time there. 

[shanti77]

Cheat:

 

We press Shift + C on the title page, now on each new level pressing START gives us immortality. We can turn it off during the game with the OPTION button.

[mikesk8]

Do you already have any timeline for the cartridge release?

[Sikor]

42 minutes ago, mikesk8 said:

Do you already have any timeline for the cartridge release?

Not yet, preliminary work is underway, the publisher is waiting for the final version. Probably it will be closer to summer :)

[AW127]

On 2/14/2021 at 2:31 PM, biobern said:

And to make it clear for all the newbies like myself: Yes, this game works with unmodified Sega Genesis/Megadrive 3-button controllers AND Sega 3-button Arcade Power Stick controllers. Button B ist fire, Button C starts the extra weapon for a short time there. 

 

Yes, i can imagine that this works. The question only is, if unmodified Mega-Drive controllers could harm other 9PIN Retrosystems when connected there, because of their different PIN-assignment, the 5Volt problematic. Here a good overview-list that shows the differences in the assignments of the various 9PIN (DB9) systems:

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/DE-9_Joystick

 

On C64, these controllers can kill the CIA, this is a known fact and i guess, that also on Atari or Amiga computers, it would be better, to modify a Mega-Drive controller first, before using it on them. These systems are probably not as sensitive to the MD-controller as a C64, but it would be a shame, if something broke, i would not risk it. So maybe better modifying the controller before or using an adapter in between, that provides something like a diode-protection to Atari, C64 and other systems. A 64JPX for example or another one, there are different adapters that can do this.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by AW127

[Gunstar]

I have been using a Sega Genesis/MD controller with my Atari 8-bit for over 20 years with absolutely no ill effects on my systems. I've also used it over those years with a 2600, 7800 and ST computers, again, with no ill effects (though they are completely compatible ports on all these systems). I actually modified this same controller just a few weeks ago for 3-button Joy2B+ upgrade, but only because most Atari games will only recognize one button on the Sega controller, including most Joy2B+ compatible games. I can personally guarantee that no harm will come to any Atari system that uses the standard Atari 9-pin ports, with the SEGA Genesis/MD controller. So all Atari computer and console systems but the Jaguar and 5200. So no, no modification is needed "to be on the safe side." They are 100% completely safe to use.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Gunstar

[AW127]

To be true, I have my doubts about that.

 

When it comes to the C64, i can guarantee that a Mega-Drive controller definitely can and maybe also will (when you use it longer or often) kill the CIA of the computer sooner or later. This indeed happened in the past to two people, that i know from different C64 forums. And on various places on the internet different users have written about that thing too. Here is a good technical explanation of the problem:

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/64JPX

 

It begins there with the sentence

 

"While some game controllers, notably the Sega Master System and Sega Genesis, are physically compatible with the C64 at the connector formfactor and pin level they are not fully electrically compatible ..."

 

and it continues in the next paragraph with the technical explanation of the pinout-differences that can cause the problem on a C64.

 

When it comes to other 9Pin-systems, like for example Atari consoles, Atari-8bit/16bit computers or Amiga computers, then it seems, that these systems are not as sensitive as the C64, when it comes to Mega-Drive controllers. But I would still be careful, because of the not insignificant differences in the pin-assignment of Mega-Drive controllers to all the normal Atari pin-assignments, to connect controllers there, which actually do not belong to the system. When they can destroy something in the C64, maybe they can also harm Atari or Amiga systems too and it was so far just lucky, that nothing has broken yet.

 

But of course, everyone can do what he wants on his own systems. Just wanted to point out, that it may not be 100% safe and you don't want to risk anything with your beloved retro hardware, do you? Modifying a Mega-Drive controller, that nothing bad can happen at all to other retro-systems, is also not a big thing. Only problem is, then this controller should no longer be used on the Mega-Drive anymore for the same reason. For example, here is written something about building an own adapter-cable and also about making a modification on the gamepad itself:

https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57614&sid=e40fd3bd50b160c0b89730541739d213

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by AW127

[Sikor]

16 minutes ago, AW127 said:

When it comes to the C64, i can guarantee that a Mega-Drive controller definitely can and maybe also will (when you use it longer or often) kill the CIA of the computer sooner or later.

On C64 I or C64 II? Originally C64 hasn't resistors on joystick sockets and plug-in joystick in port on C64 on can damage it, so? Few years younger as Atari 8-bit series and that's big mistake in construction...

C64 II (later version) probably has resistors on ports, so, maybe it is solved? (I don't know, i never have C64 personally)

Edited March 18, 2021 by Sikor

[AW127]

48 minutes ago, Sikor said:

On C64 I or C64 II? Originally C64 hasn't resistors on joystick sockets and plug-in joystick in port on C64 on can damage it, so? Few years younger as Atari 8-bit series and that's big mistake in construction...

C64 II (later version) probably has resistors on ports, so, maybe it is solved? (I don't know, i never have C64 personally)

 

As far as i know, all C64 models can be damaged by using Mega-Drive controllers. I have not yet heard, that a certain C64 model is protected from this or that this would be solved and also why should it, because controllers with different pinout-assignments are not made, for being used on a C64. Atari joysticks should also not be used on a Mega-Drive. This can also be interesting in the context maybe (it's a german side, but here a link with english translation):

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/Joystick

 

But you are right, when you say, that the joyport-sockets are someting like a small weakness of the C64. For example, users should also avoid coming very close to the joystick-sockets with their fingers, when changing or switching the joystick. Nothing has to break in the process, but under stupid circumstances it can. Here under the point "Attention" is written more about this and also about the 5Volt problematic, that MD controllers can cause (also a translated side from the german C64-Wiki):

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.c64-wiki.de/wiki/Controlport

If, in this point with the finger-touching, a difference between certain C64 models exists, i can not say. Luckily i have never damaged anything on one of my own C64 machines so far. 

 

 

But i don't want to make to much offtopic with this thing now here in the "Last Squadron" thread. If they think it's necessary, the moderators can also move the joystick-topic to an own new thread.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by AW127

[Gunstar]

14 hours ago, AW127 said:

To be true, I have my doubts about that.

 

When it comes to the C64, i can guarantee that a Mega-Drive controller definitely can and maybe also will (when you use it longer or often) kill the CIA of the computer sooner or later. This indeed happened in the past to two people, that i know from different C64 forums. And on various places on the internet different users have written about that thing too. Here is a good technical explanation of the problem:

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/64JPX

 

It begins there with the sentence

 

"While some game controllers, notably the Sega Master System and Sega Genesis, are physically compatible with the C64 at the connector formfactor and pin level they are not fully electrically compatible ..."

 

and it continues in the next paragraph with the technical explanation of the pinout-differences that can cause the problem on a C64.

 

When it comes to other 9Pin-systems, like for example Atari consoles, Atari-8bit/16bit computers or Amiga computers, then it seems, that these systems are not as sensitive as the C64, when it comes to Mega-Drive controllers. But I would still be careful, because of the not insignificant differences in the pin-assignment of Mega-Drive controllers to all the normal Atari pin-assignments, to connect controllers there, which actually do not belong to the system. When they can destroy something in the C64, maybe they can also harm Atari or Amiga systems too and it was so far just lucky, that nothing has broken yet.

 

But of course, everyone can do what he wants on his own systems. Just wanted to point out, that it may not be 100% safe and you don't want to risk anything with your beloved retro hardware, do you? Modifying a Mega-Drive controller, that nothing bad can happen at all to other retro-systems, is also not a big thing. Only problem is, then this controller should no longer be used on the Mega-Drive anymore for the same reason. For example, here is written something about building an own adapter-cable and also about making a modification on the gamepad itself:

https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57614&sid=e40fd3bd50b160c0b89730541739d213

 

C64 is NOT Atari and the ports, even if the pin-outs are the same, cannot be considered in the same way, sbecause those circuits go to completely different IC's on a machines with completely different design that just happen to have some similar things about them, and both happen to use 9-pin controller ports, but do not connect to the same IC's, so one has NOTHING to do with the other. I only know any Atari 9-pin port, NOT C64 can use Sega controllers without any problem at all. The CIA is NOT a PIA and the SID is NOT a POKEY (PIA and POKEY are what use the controller ports on Atari's.).So you are contradicting a guy who just said he's been using Sega controllers for over twenty years on Atari's (who also has a degree in electronics and works on all types of vintage electronics). Obviously you know little about Atari's and shouldn't be giving advice for them based on the C64; you might as well be saying you are an expert on Ford vehicles, therefore you know you can transpose that experience and include Chevy's that you have little or no experience with just because they both have internal combustion engines, so they must be identical and all the same rules apply, when they don't. Therefore, there is no reason to be careful, I know from vast years of daily experience this to be true. It's not luck, it's FACT.

 

 I don't know why you keep warning people, even after I've set the record straight, from experience as long as an entire career worth, that we should be careful using them on Atari's. This is just not the case, PERIOD. You show me a person who has had an Atari "break" while using a Sega Genesis controller with it, and I'll show you the same guy who's Atari coincidentally "broke" when he happened to have a Sega Genesis controller plugged into it. Does a line normally used for power on a Genesis controller plug into an Atari pin that isn't a power line? YES. Does it hurt the Atari at all? NO. But yes, it is also 100% true that it will hurt a C64, but it's a completely different circuit design among a lot of other differences, so of course you can't judge one by the other, but you insist on ignoring the facts and doing so anyway.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Gunstar

[AW127]

4 hours ago, Gunstar said:

So you are contradicting a guy who just said he's been using Sega controllers for over twenty years on Atari's (who also has a degree in electronics and works on all types of vintage electronics). Obviously you know little about Atari's and shouldn't be giving advice for them based on the C64

 

I also have an Atari computer, but would never use a controller on it, that has such differences in the pin-assignment that we have here in this case. Fact is, that Mega-Drive controllers, for example, give 5Volt on PIN5 what normal Atari controllers don't do on this PIN and this is only one of the differences. Sounds not really healthy for me, also not for Atari computers or consoles.

 

Therefore I think it's fatal, to tell people, you can guarantee to 100% that nothing will break on their beloved retro-hardware, if they use an unmodified Mega-Drive controller there. Especially when looking at the known facts of the differences in the pinout-assignment. This means you give a guarantee here for a thing, that you can not know for sure and then some people do what you wrote and then maybe something is broken on their hardware. Opinions about problems with MD-controllers on other hardware than C64 may differ on the internet, because some people have simply been lucky so far, that nothing has broken on their hardware yet when they used a Mega-Drive controller since years, but I didn't have to search longer than one minute on the internet, to find informations about, that something can break on the Amiga too. Read here the paragraph "Just my personal anecdote but a couple of years ago I fried one of my A1200 mouse ports by plugging in a 3rd party mega drive controller ..." and so on.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75515&page=2

 

So it seems, it can lead to trouble on Amiga computers too. Why should people lie about something like this in their reports, so I assume that this is, what happened to them. And when on C64 and Amiga something can be damaged, why Atari hardware, like for example the 800-XL should be an exception here? Where is written in the Atari-manuals that on this machines it's okay, to connect a controller, that has a different pin-assignment or that they have a special diode-protection inside, so that nothing bad can happen when doing so? Mega-Drive controllers, when not modified/adjusted, belong on the Mega-Drive in my opinion and not on other 9Pin retrosystems, just because you happen to have a plug here, that also fits into Atari or Commodore computers.
 

And because of the fact, that the opinions differ on the net, whether unmodified MegaDrive controllers can also damage other retro-hardware than the C64 and the technical fact of the other pin-assignment exists, i think it should not be uncommented, when someone writes here, that he can guarantee to 100%, that nothing bad can happen on different Atari hardware. Because you can't guarantee this, just because nothing happened to break in your case. It happened to others on their C64's/Amiga's (and, when searching for it, i guess also reports like this with Atari computers could be found) and they report about it on the web and i think a user should first read such things, then he can decide if he don't prefer, to make a little modification on his Mega-Drive controller first and only then use it on other retro-systems. When i look at the linked pinout-list, some of all these different Atari systems have even smaller differences in their pin-assignments to each other, which makes it even harder then, to completely rule out a possible problem with a connected Mega-Drive controller. When looking at the PINS in the list, some machines maybe could think, a Paddle is connected when a MD-controller is plugged in, but there are still the 5Volt problematics/differences and so on. I would be careful. Modifying such a MD-controller is a better solution than taking the risk in my opinion, but everyone can do what he wants on own systems of course.

 

4 hours ago, Gunstar said:

You show me a person who has had an Atari "break" while using a Sega Genesis controller with it, and I'll show you the same guy who's Atari coincidentally "broke" when he happened to have a Sega Genesis controller plugged into it.

 

I don't even searched five minutes now on the net and found this for example:

https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27673&start=25

 

Look at the post of the user "Foxie" from "Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:36 pm" where he had written:

 

"Not only that, but using a Mega Drive gamepad on an Atari could kill your Atari.

Why could this happen ..."

 

and so on. Okay, nothing broke on his hardware yet, because he didn't take the risk, but he explained technical details, why also on an Atari-ST a damage could happen. But maybe you will say now, this person there has no clue and so on and so forth. I think, he knows what he's writing about.

 

When i read such warnings, i prefer the point of view - correctly modifying a Mega-Drive controller maybe takes 30 minutes, if at all, and after that, you can use it on other systems without having to think about the possibility that something might break. The fact, that this one controller then should not be used on the Mega-Drive anymore, is more than bearable. An adaptercable, that is plugged between, would be an alternative, then no Mega-Drive gamepad must be modified directly.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by AW127

[eegad]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:29 AM, shanti77 said:

Cheat:

We press Shift + C on the title page, now on each new level pressing START gives us immortality. We can turn it off during the game with the OPTION button.

 

Thanks for this. Just tried it and it works great. I was *finally* able to kill main boss at the end of the first level.  Unfortunately, that uncovered a problem. After killing the boss, I get a "Level Complete" notice, and then the screen turns black and stays that way. Level 2 does not load. Tried pressing keys, joystick, nothing works. Also rebooted and played through the first level again, with the same result.  This is on a stock 800xl, NTSC.  Can anyone else confirm same issue? File download is from initial post in this thread.

 

[Dinadan67]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:24 AM, AW127 said:

 

"Not only that, but using a Mega Drive gamepad on an Atari could kill your Atari.

Why could this happen ..."

 

Sorry, but this is just another warning without a real case. Do you have an actual example of someone killing his Atari with a Sega controller?

[_The Doctor__]

depends on the controller, I have seen an Atari heat up and then burn up a sega controller, and it shorted in some wonderful way that took the Atari out in return... the guy never had a problem other than the controller getting warm until that day.

[AW127]

3 hours ago, Dinadan67 said:

Sorry, but this is just another warning without a real case. Do you have an actual example of someone killing his Atari with a Sega controller?

 

As "_The Doctor_" already writes. A friend of me had a vice-versa problem by the way, when he used a "Competition Pro" joystick on his MegaDrive. After playing "Sonic the Hedgehog" without a problem for a while and turning off the console, he wanted to use this joystick on his C64 again. Plugged it in and realized, that now all at once, nothing happened anymore on the screen, when he moves the stick in a game. Then he connected on MegaDrive again and also nothing works anymore with this joystick. Next he opened the controller and it smelled burned, this stick then was gone, the MegaDrive had ruined it. Fortunately for him, nothing had broken on the console itself.

 

Don't know, why some people still wants to have more and more examples, after all given links here? Where is the problem, to take a few minutes and making a small modification on the MegaDrive controller, so that you can be sure, that nothing bad can happen anymore on other hardware? Instead, some people take unnecessary risks and connect a controller that has a different pin assignment. I don't get it, but let all do what they want.

Edited March 23, 2021 by AW127

[_The Doctor__]

not the exact joystick but...

there are few sega/genesis controllers like this, so the passive components from the joy i/o port sometimes gets clobbered if the controller fails in a bad way... You might just make sure whatever one you choose doesn't use the similar methods. Also folks can thank mytek for chasing this one I quoted down as well.

Edited March 24, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[AW127]

Interesting. Especially when you asked there, what happens, when this controller after the modification then is used on a MegaDrive and the answer was "might have a similar overheat problem". Reminds me on the thing i wrote in last entry, about this "Competition Pro" Joystick that smelled burnt inside and stopped working, after being used on the MegaDrive. They are different Pin-assignments, that should not be forgotten or completely ignored. This does not mean, that something has to break immediately, but adapting it with a small modification that takes only short time, seems safer and more sensible.

[Muckypaws]

Hello All, has this game been released on Cartridge? And has there been any update to the ABBUC Contest version later than November 2020?

[Beeblebrox]

@Muckypaws   oo you are in for a treat!! A cart version and digital versions (both paid for) were released last year. Extra features and levels. Excellent game. Check out this thread on AA which somewhere has the contact details: