Quick Question about VBXE

[drac030]

26 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

You contributed to the device, that makes you a part of the development team whether that was your intention or not.

That is the problem, out of one guy, who designed the hardware, and two others, one of which started to write the firmware, and the other who finished it, you have necessarily to make a team, or maybe shortly it will be proclaimed an entire conspiracy, you have to create some "we", who "refuse to support", and all this straight from my statement that I do support the device (in software), so if there is "we", "we" obviously support, and if there is no "we", then your reasoning have no point really. You are just building a beautiful monument of prejudice on a nameless grave of coherency, so to speak

 

26 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

But I get it, your code is perfect, it must be everything around Rapidus even though it's at the center of it all.

Does it require a special ability to add "I get" to every sentence that is shouting that you do not get it? Or it happens by pure luck?

 

Now I must ask you for another quotation of me, which you of course will not be again able to find, where I say that my code is perfect.

 

Quite contrary, I would me more than happy if you point me a bug in my code or report a reproducible issue. But you do not have a Rapidus board, are not even going to get one as you said few posts above, and you are, as I guess, unable to debug 65C816 code. But if this guess is wrong, here you are, as I said the code is in PBI #0 (a Commodore man like you, present on AtariAge just since 5 minutes, may want to consult some documentation to get a grasp on what this means, but perhaps you already did), and the bulk of the BIOS is located at address $F00000, it occupies some 10k if I recall correctly.

 

And when you will already have a report, please do not forget to bring the quotation along

 

PS. There are not just two BIOS-es, there are plenty of them in the Atari world, because every PBI device has one.

Edited March 2, 2021 by drac030

[Mazzspeed]

39 minutes ago, drac030 said:

PS. There are not just two BIOS-es, there are plenty of them in the Atari world, because every PBI device has one.

Well...Naturally there is. Hence the reason why there's more than one person coding bios' on differing devices.

 

Anyway, I think you've highlighted the real issue here, and it's not U1MB - In fact I'd go as far as to claim that it's solely based around certain ego's and closed off lines of communication. If someone highlights a 'repeatable' issue on 90% of all devices, I think the community almost expects a resolution. When this individual asks for assistance and assistance is refused or they're told they don't want the issue resolved as they won't send client's machines to Poland as the client doesn't want their precious machine sent to Poland - That's damaging to the community as a whole.

 

Disappointing to say the least.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[drac030]

No quotation? You are just throwing unfounded statements and putting words in mouths of people who have never said or written anything like that, and when asked for justification, you pass it all in silence, trying to change the subject? What a surprise. I would never expect such a behaviour from a respectable disputant on AtariAge. I am utterly disappointed. I just will not be able to sleep next night

 

8 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

In fact I'd go as far as to claim that it's solely based around certain ego's and closed off lines of communication.

You have closed off lines of communication with me? I did not notice anything like that, especially today

 

9 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

highlights a 'repeatable' issue on 90% of all devices

You are making up numbers here, no such statistics exist, and "anecdotes", as it has been named here, and other fairy tales are for children. Anyway, even if it was really 90% of failed installations, this is not the point. The point is what I wrote in post #125, four pages ago (what a "productive" night - but certainly entertaining, you have no idea how grateful I am for improving my humor).

[candle]

all i can see here, is drac030 trying to get simple information: how to trigger the issue; and getting all but the information needed

his only guilt is getting engaged into a pointless discussion, with people having no rapidus board installed to be able to contribute with information required

i'm sure someone draw a rapidus logo, thus that person is also part of design team, go blame that person - it's silly? i don't really see any diffrence there

 

rapidus is a single-person effort (hardware-wise) and a result of 12 years of development (if not more) starting from simple things, and going through diffrent stages of development

yet, final design was never tested on anything but few XE machines, not to mention XL or 1200

 

xe's reset circuit generates single, narrow reset pulse, whereas xl's one puts this singal low as long as reset key is pressed, then there is a RC circuit generating some "constant" time for reset, especially power on reset

this "constant" time varies, as years passes since capacitor used in that circuit is electrolitic one, and parish with time

 

first thing to attack would be that capacitor, then whole reset circuit, and no, drac030 won't do it, unless there is some programming language that can accomplish this task

 

[Mazzspeed]

21 minutes ago, drac030 said:

No quotation? You are just throwing unfounded statements and putting words in mouths of people who have never said or written anything like that, and when asked for justification, you pass it all in silence, trying to change the subject? What a surprise. I would never expect such a behaviour from a respectable disputant on AtariAge. I am utterly disappointed. I just will not be able to sleep next night

 

You have closed off lines of communication with me? I did not notice anything like that, especially today

 

You are making up numbers here, no such statistics exist, and "anecdotes", as it has been named here, and other fairy tales are for children. Anyway, even if it was really 90% of failed installations, this is not the point. The point is what I wrote in post #125, four pages ago (what a "productive" night - but certainly entertaining, you have no idea how grateful I am for improving my humor).

I'm going to be understanding due to the fact that English is not your first language and context is difficult to portray in written form, but you need to understand context and realize that not everything I state is aimed directly at yourself.

 

You highlighted the real issue here, the rest of my comment was in general based around a video you refuse to watch as you believe you stated it's too emotional? Words to that effect?

 

Of course it's emotional, someone installs upgrades to enthusiast machines as a gig on the side, he's frustrated that he can't provide a certain combination of upgrades as that's what client's want, and when he asks for help he's either ignored completely or blamed for not wanting to fix the issue because his client's don't want their machines sent to Poland.

 

People want this combination of hardware, they want U1MB and Rapidus and in 90% of cases it simply doesn't work while one party states it's everything but Rapidus. With a rhetoric like that, the device should be called Repeatus - Because that's all you hear from the community that created it, over and over again.

 

 

[Mazzspeed]

5 minutes ago, candle said:

first thing to attack would be that capacitor, then whole reset circuit, and no, drac030 won't do it, unless there is some programming language that can accomplish this task

 

Respectfully Candle, and please bear in mind that I do respect you.

 

The first step is for that one person that designed the hardware to admit there's an issue and do something about it. Identifying the concern is the first step of any diagnosis. It sounds to me like the U1MB developer (being yourself, respect) has looked into the fault and has an idea as the what it could be, what may I ask is the other party doing to resolve the problem?

[candle]

sure it is, but we're left alone - do not expect anything from Pasiu

this is as good as it gets

 

[Mazzspeed]

1 minute ago, candle said:

sure it is, but we're left alone - do not expect anything from Pasiu

this is as good as it gets

 

And herein lies the problem.

 

It's no good anyone asking for steps to reproduce the issue as it's fairly well documented and videoed in great detail.

[candle]

from my point of view, it's not - it would be if i saw on that video program being executed (as traceback with register states and listing being executed), and I don't know anyone with such possibilities

perhaps Simus - i don't know

I have 48 channels LA, but it won't do listings - that i could get with external tool if i dump what LA registers, then again, i do have my own work and Atari projects i would like to get going, not to solve anyone's else issues

 

[drac030]

5 minutes ago, candle said:

all i can see here, is drac030 trying to get simple information: how to trigger the issue; and getting all but the information needed

This is exactly how I understand all this too. Maybe mods should be asked to delete everything from post 126 onwards, because all this is in fact useless.

 

6 minutes ago, candle said:

his only guilt is getting engaged into a pointless discussion

Yup, I admit. It is oddly entertaining though to sit and be able to foresee what interlocutors would say next. The principle is basically "the truth has been already established and no new facts can change it", plus various attempts to suppress (or talk down) any attempt at discussion.

 

this "constant" time varies, as years passes since capacitor used in that circuit is electrolitic one, and parish with time

 

You are speaking of XL reset circuitry, right? So what about tf_hh's statement that he replaced the reset circuit in his XL with a copy of that what is in XE and this did not change anything? (which is extremely odd, I admit).

 

9 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

you need to understand context and realize that not everything I state is aimed directly at yourself.

The point in this particular place is that you need to understand the context as well. I told you above that there is no "team" and no "we". Then you are returning to your team-conspiracy theory and are writing to me that there are lines of communication cut or something, as if I was responsible for that or had anything to do with that, or perhaps be able to fix that. So I do understand the context, I am just speaking with irony about your theory, where I am a part of some team, so I am certainly a suitable person to complain about the behaviour of the designer or the seller. NOT. You have been already twice told (or more?) that this is only a superstition of yours. We do not even live in the same city and my influence on the designer or the seller is no better than on you.

 

17 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

the rest of my comment was in general based around a video you refuse to watch as you believe you stated it's too emotional? Words to that effect?

Yup. This is finally words which I said. Congratulations. Yes, that one was tiresome to watch, and tf_hh was able to make the same information available without all the unnecessary outbursts. But even a million of videos does not replace information on how to trigger the issue. Could you accept that or not?

 

By the way, if it makes you happier, I have just talked to a fellow who has a computer with Rapidus and U1MB and reportedly without issues. He agreed to lend me that machine for week or two so that I will be able to make detailed observation on how does it exactly behave. But what if there will be no issue? I will say this here then will get again blamed of partiality because that is not what "community" expects?

 

20 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

while one party states it's everything but Rapidus

And this party is named how?

21 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

With a rhetoric like that, the device should be called Repeatus

With this, you are accusing me (and if not me, then whom?) of idle rhetoric? I am really thrilled

 

[candle]

5 minutes ago, drac030 said:

You are speaking of XL reset circuitry, right? So what about tf_hh's statement that he replaced the reset circuit in his XL with a copy of that what is in XE and this did not change anything? (which is extremely odd, I admit).

then i would say it would be not the root-cause of issues observed, and focus on another diffrence which already stroke me while working on side3 - data bus termination on XL machines

 

[SenorRossie]

@drac030
I admire you patience!

 

Thanks for the entertaining discussion. Hopefully the hardware you were able to loan will shed some light on the cause of the issues others are experiencing. If not, I guess the request for information made approximately two pages ago still stands.

[_The Doctor__]

He said he is being loaned a machine that works just fine... That may or may not give some ideas comparing against a machine with u1m and one that doesn't have u1m... but it certainly doesn't make the issue jump out for discovery. We are being told the machine being lent is without issues. Here's a car with issues, my buddy has the same car without issues... let's compare the car without issues against another car with different options without issues. This is the logic that baffles us.

 

It's great there is an attempt at least... but we are told that he is firmware coder hasn't the resources and is not a hardware guy. He did a lot more than add logo. There is hope he can visit hardware guys with resources who can look at the machines. It would still be best to have machines with weird issues in that group. Then maybe some illumination as to what is happening could be found.

 

Candle has a voice with some rational and reason in this conversation. I understand he has his own projects to do. I do however feel his expertise is great and could be able to identify the complex issues and solve them. Who knows... if not solved after all the projects are done, candle might for fun or something to do, intercede. It's not a command, it's a hope. As translation doesn't always work out well. Translations may be part of the problem when talking, but it's better than no communication at all. It was also a hope that with many people telling what little they as users and installers see that the different interpretation and translated texts would help the hardware/firmware/userbase/intallers come to some conclusions and achieve the ultimate goal of rapidus for all. If it ends up as only for a certain machine line as in XE only or XL only, at least we will obtain that knowledge and that will be the only target machine for an install. Just knowing and having that documented would be great. Getting it to work on all XL/XE machines (or the greatest number would be better).

 

If more information is needed, every person who has an experience of it not working properly needs to try to explain what happened as best they can. If it's not getting understood, it's good for someone else to try and convey that information possibly in another way.

 

We'd all love to install the device, but can't recommend doing so until this is sorted out. You have a number of installers and repair people as well as designers who can't figure out the problem. It's not fair to the installer, the customer, or end user in this case. A great deal of time, money, and effort with a great chance it won't be working properly.

 

If enough people share what happens maybe it will be solved. It would be great if they all were engineers with the equipment and know how to explain exactly and unequivocally what is going on in a perfect test bed cause and effect scenario. This is not the user base though. It's a bigger issue than that it would seem in any event. If any of this helps... great... if not... at least there can be some understanding. Customers shouldn't feel they have to apologize or feel bad because they can't explain what is wrong, they just observe something is not correct and need it corrected/fixed. We are not able to do so at this time. It is a frustration.

 

With nothing else of value to help in this endeavor, I will sit on the side, and watch eagerly for a solution. Who knows, if it is fixed, I might have the pleasure of installing one for my own personal use and joy.

Edited March 2, 2021 by _The Doctor__